He did win one more race than valentino this year though.
And was in contention for several more. And you have to ask the question - if you can't win the championship, what's more valuable/desirable, a high championship position, or race wins?
Anyone who thinks that rossi won't be right in the thick of it next year has obviously not observed bike racing for the last 15 odd years at all closely.
I've observed fairly closely, but I'm not at all sure that Rossi will be in the thick of it next year. I know his record. I'm not writing him off. But if history has taught us anything, it's that all good things must come to an end. The king is dead, long live the king. And much more recent history tells us that the Ducati is unique.
However whilst you might see jB's comment about fixing the ducati in 80 seconds to be justifiable confidence, and as an admirer of jb going back to the wayne gardner days I might even agree with you, I can see some case for it to be considered arrogant, and that an implication could be drawn regarding not just stoner but the competence of the entire ducati operation including presiozi.
I feel a little queasy saying this, but I read a post on crash.net saying that Burgess had taken several back-handed swipes at Stoner in recent times, and I'm forced to agree. I'm sometimes overly patriotic, yet I try to look at these things in as objective a light as possible....but the way he's been carrying on has been...gulp unaustralian.
I personally think that major chassis re-design, and perhaps even an entirely different chassis design philosophy, may be required to make the ducati into a valentino-style bike, which is why i favour him more for 2012 rather than 2011. However I also think that valentino can adapt his riding to the bike if needed, although riding it in the way required to make it fast may involve dnfs even for him.
I too favour him more for 2012. Much more. But I'm not nearly as confident as you are that he can adapt to the GP11.
Valencia Tests.
- Thread starter BarryMachine
- Start date
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
the electronics that Stoners uses are 'probably' the least invasive of the gridand you base all this on what Stoner sayes.
And where is the feedback from Rossi on the Ducati? He's gagged.
Wild opinions
It's been mentioned on Eurosport countless times. Obviously you can't compare how much he uses, each system is completely unique from system to system and manufacturer to manufacturer. But from everything I've read, Stoner uses considerably less TC than the others. At least a considerable enough margin less for Ryder, Moody and Spalding to mention it.
If I'm not mistaken, de Puniet is due to have a screw removed from his leg from this summer's fracture surgery. Still not 100 percent. In my opinion, the most underrated rider in the paddock.
I did not know this. I know he is a gun-ho style of rider, but it kinda puts into perspective how well he performed at the test.
Whilst I don't think Rossi pushed as hard as he might have wanted to at the test, I think it is plain to see that the current incarnation of the Ducati is a peculiar beast, and Rossi doesn't like it. Needless to say, he'll be challenging for wins at some point next year, on a completely revised bike.
Are you saying that because of this test this now proves that Rossi the 9 times champ is actually the 15th on the grid when it comes to adapting to a bike? Are you basing all your info on this 2 day test? Why not base it on his Carreer and previous years?
As usual little respect for hayden. Little respect for him when he won the championship and little respect for him since he's joined ducati.Funny now that rossi is struggling with the bike everyone finally admits that the bike is junk. Well quess how bad it is if your the #2 rider and all the effort is being put into stoners bike leaving you with the leftovers. All year long i've been saying the engineers have done a bad job and now the rossi fans have jumped on the bandwagon.
I have faith in nicky and i think if he gets a decent bike he can run at the front. Hopefully he gets better treatment as a teamate with rossi than he did with stoner.
I have faith in nicky and i think if he gets a decent bike he can run at the front. Hopefully he gets better treatment as a teamate with rossi than he did with stoner.
the electronics that Stoners uses are 'probably' the least invasive of the gridand you base all this on what Stoner sayes.
And where is the feedback from Rossi on the Ducati? He's gagged.
Wild opinions
I understand that you are the forum lunatic but that does not excuse you from being completely hypocritical.
To start with Carmelo recently commented on Stoners lack of TC. As mentioned by another poster above several respected commentators have commented on it. An observation of even the most recent races would have highlighted it so the fact that you are still of the ignorant opinion that Stoner uses a heap of traction control is just straight out embarrassing for you.
Lets get back to the hypocrisy of your quoted comment above. It seems that Stoners comments on his bike or MotoGP bikes in general are not to be believed or used as evidence but yet you complain that Rossi has been gagged and therefore you can't use his lack of comments in your defence.
I for one would tend to put more weight on a Stoner comment about his bike then just about anyone on the grid for 2 reasons: 1) he takes the bike to the edge and over it with more regularity than almost anyone and this is where you would expect TC to be in operation more than anywhere else, and 2) he is well known for his non PC responses to questions asked in comparison to the everything is beautiful PC correct responses from most other riders.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Well I'd say a lot of this is due to the talk going around some time ago that Stoner was lucky and the Ducati was a bike that "anyoe could win on", which kinda lead to speculation that Rossi would be great on the Duc, and that would show just how "lucky" Stoner has been.
This was a big test that was going to give a lot of answers from the past.
It has ......... Stoner now looks like a soe kind of freaky riding god.
And it appears that Rossi can't just hop on anything and ride it well.
It kinda answers the question of just how much value JB is in the Rossi formula too
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
I think you will find that Stoner and Nicky were pretty much in accord with how things were being done at Ducati.
The beauty of this situation now is that, JB will find the problem and fix the bike, and Nicky will be given parts etc. so we should expect him to show some better form. Who knows he may give Rossi trouble again ala 2006.
Its beginning to look like JB to Ducati may be the best thing that has happened for them since 2007.
He has the potencial but he is not mentaly strong enough... imo.
[quote name='Mental Anarchist' date='11 November 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1289510198' post='259619']
This is an interesting opinion. I have heard it regurgitated many times now but it is rarely if ever backed up by first hand knowledge or any other type of evidence. I would be really interested to hear the events and or conversations you have had with Stoner that you have used to form this opinion. Having researched his background, upbringing and the road he has travelled to get where he is I fail to see how anyone with any type of mental weakness would have been able to walk that road and achieve what he has.
[quote name='Mental Anarchist' date='11 November 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1289510198' post='259619']
Its simple... he is married
...if you know what i mean
Remember laguna 08 ...andriana and him had a reservation for vacation after laguna...he cancelled it! Do you think he did the right thing?
He is uberfast and strong... im a big fan of his riding, but i dont think he is capable of taking the big pressure... if he fly's from the beggining and wins a few and dont get dnfs and other fail... he can do it. But if its close... na-a. Here comes the problems with Adriana
I think the ? on the helmet represent all this conversation about his time at testing. If you were Rossi would you go all out? For what ...to scare ppl? I think he doesnt need to scare ppl he is on Ducati
...and who realy beleives he cant ride it?
ImO Vale did it perfect... ppl dont know what to expect, his crew is even more motivated, ppl talk about it much much more ... and can even hardly wait for 2011, opponents are angry about the unknown and all the hype around it, vale is the smartest of all...dont forget that to! ( He is 31 but still not married
)
Stoner time is perfect...and it helps Rossi strategy...i think everybody predicted Stoner to go very fast.... just think about it.... would you go all out with such a reputation like Rossi and challenge the crazy Stoner?
Thats imo... cheers
[quote name='Mental Anarchist' date='11 November 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1289510198' post='259619']
This is an interesting opinion. I have heard it regurgitated many times now but it is rarely if ever backed up by first hand knowledge or any other type of evidence. I would be really interested to hear the events and or conversations you have had with Stoner that you have used to form this opinion. Having researched his background, upbringing and the road he has travelled to get where he is I fail to see how anyone with any type of mental weakness would have been able to walk that road and achieve what he has.
[quote name='Mental Anarchist' date='11 November 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1289510198' post='259619']
Its simple... he is married
Remember laguna 08 ...andriana and him had a reservation for vacation after laguna...he cancelled it! Do you think he did the right thing?
He is uberfast and strong... im a big fan of his riding, but i dont think he is capable of taking the big pressure... if he fly's from the beggining and wins a few and dont get dnfs and other fail... he can do it. But if its close... na-a. Here comes the problems with Adriana
I think the ? on the helmet represent all this conversation about his time at testing. If you were Rossi would you go all out? For what ...to scare ppl? I think he doesnt need to scare ppl he is on Ducati
ImO Vale did it perfect... ppl dont know what to expect, his crew is even more motivated, ppl talk about it much much more ... and can even hardly wait for 2011, opponents are angry about the unknown and all the hype around it, vale is the smartest of all...dont forget that to! ( He is 31 but still not married
Stoner time is perfect...and it helps Rossi strategy...i think everybody predicted Stoner to go very fast.... just think about it.... would you go all out with such a reputation like Rossi and challenge the crazy Stoner?
Thats imo... cheers
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
C'mon, you've gotta admit it was a little bit funny, I mean, the exact same words!
I do get what you're saying, to be serious. But you have to admit that if Rossi was going to be "wobbling around" he would have had to be doing something a lot closer to the limit of the bike. As Kropotkin alluded to on his site (if you read it?), you've got to be pushing the limits on the Ducati (the sound barrier) before all hell seems to break loose. I don't think he even got close, judging by the times. I honestly think that Hayden's info, if they cared to take it seriously, would be much more useful than anything Rossi has provided.
And I still maintain that Burgess stuck his foot in his mouth when he alleged that he could fix some Ducati problem in 80 seconds.
The "sound barrier" is another figure of speech. Krop is a good writer, it reads like a movie script. But the fact that the Bridgestones heat up properly only if you go fast, and that only if they are properly hot you can go fast (catch 22) is a well known fact and applies to ALL stone-shod bikes, not just to Ducatis. The Ducati may feel more unpredictable than other bikes until the tires are at optimal temp, but do you really believe that a rider like Rossi would not understand that, and not have the guts to get through the so called "sound barrier" if it was necessary?
No, the reason he didn't feel like pushing harder must be different, other issues than this well-known one of heating the tires up.
Again, why you insist with the story of the 80 seconds -- that referred only to the wobble problem. Do you have something against Burgess, that you want to make him look like a .......? You only make yourself look like one, if you insist too much
Do you have something against Burgess, that you want to make him look like a .......? You only make yourself look like one, if you insist too much
With all due respect Burgess comment was one that is easily construed as being arrogant by implying that other people can not sort it over a whole season but we are so good that we can sort it in 80 seconds.
I have more respect for Burgess than any other single person in the whole of MotoGP but I was very disappointed by this comment of his.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Its something that will get his fans amazed and entertained til the end of time
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
He has the potencial but he is not mentaly strong enough... imo.
Mental Anarchist' date='11 November 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1289510198' post='259619 said:
Its simple... he is married...if you know what i mean
Remember laguna 08 ...andriana and him had a reservation for vacation after laguna...he cancelled it! Do you think he did the right thing?
He is uberfast and strong... im a big fan of his riding, but i dont think he is capable of taking the big pressure... if he fly's from the beggining and wins a few and dont get dnfs and other fail... he can do it. But if its close... na-a. Here comes the problems with Adriana
I think the ? on the helmet represent all this conversation about his time at testing. If you were Rossi would you go all out? For what ...to scare ppl? I think he doesnt need to scare ppl he is on Ducati...and who realy beleives he cant ride it?
ImO Vale did it perfect... ppl dont know what to expect, his crew is even more motivated, ppl talk about it much much more ... and can even hardly wait for 2011, opponents are angry about the unknown and all the hype around it, vale is the smartest of all...dont forget that to! ( He is 31 but still not married)
Stoner time is perfect...and it helps Rossi strategy...i think everybody predicted Stoner to go very fast.... just think about it.... would you go all out with such a reputation like Rossi and challenge the crazy Stoner?
Thats imo... cheers
Oh so insteadof getting a good idea of what he could do on the Duc. Rossi saw more benefit in just pottering around ........ all just to play mind games ............ well hell he must be pretty confident with the Duc. then! I hope they don't change it !!
Get real mate your opinion is really hard to find any justification for
Rossi was wasting time sandbagging ......
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
So Reg .... tell me ..... what value is there in not really testing the bike at a test, especially your first ever ride. You rather think the 2011 season is going to be won by "mindgames" ........... well lets see how that pans out then
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
You also, did not read that sentence well. Burgess didn't say the other technicians were dumb. He said that "lesser riders" would not like the easy 80 seconds cure (make the bike stiffer) because they would lose the feel with more rigidity. That is to say: he could solve that problem in 80 seconds with Valentino, but even he would not be able to solve it with a "lesser rider".
Yes, and it turns out he couldn't fix that problem with Rossi, or that Rossi is in fact one of the 'lesser riders' (relative to Stoner, as the comment was originally)
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Why do you think he could not fix a wobble problem with Rossi? They had completely different issues than that. For all we know, next time at Sepang we could have a Ducati with its problems largely solved. I would wait before rushing to conclusions now, the risk of sounding arrogant is bigger for you right now, than for Burgess
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
some good chat of these dudes every week i listen to loads
Motogp pod cast ty Jim Race n gang
Episode 253: Into the Abyss, Sort of
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2010 - 00:18 in
http://www.motogpod.com/
Valencia round review
Valencia test
Mark Miller interview
http://www.motogpod...._2010-11-12.mp3 download link mp3 76mb
Jim Race and Martin Darlington wrap up the final round from Valencia.
Fantastic racing as well as the confusion that is the post-season testing drama.
Mark Miller joins us once again to fill us in on his upcoming journey to race the Macau GP
plus the familiar rabbit hole of bench racing and more Jim and Mark seem to enjoy falling into. A great listen!
btw Eurosport2 today 4.45pm ? Valencia test report
Motogp pod cast ty Jim Race n gang
Episode 253: Into the Abyss, Sort of
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2010 - 00:18 in
http://www.motogpod.com/
Valencia round review
Valencia test
Mark Miller interview
http://www.motogpod...._2010-11-12.mp3 download link mp3 76mb
Jim Race and Martin Darlington wrap up the final round from Valencia.
Fantastic racing as well as the confusion that is the post-season testing drama.
Mark Miller joins us once again to fill us in on his upcoming journey to race the Macau GP
plus the familiar rabbit hole of bench racing and more Jim and Mark seem to enjoy falling into. A great listen!
btw Eurosport2 today 4.45pm ? Valencia test report
Similar threads
