Stoner says: It's about the money.

BarryMachine said:

Because they had so many competitors up near the front ?

The ole "fast in a straight line myth again eh?"

Drag em out agan and they'll get shot down in flames again

or better still you do a search of those "done/settled" myths/fairytales on here

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Bazza my old chum i think you best go watch that season again - if i remember right after qatar the expression fomr rossi & yamaha was "I brought a knife to a gunfight".



People who didnt want to believe it said it was all the engine power, speed & electronics

People who wnated to beleive it said it was all stoner



Both are worng -it takes man & machine to win in this sport.

woody996 said:

I'll take it slow for you Barry. Bridgestones were the tyre to be on in 07.

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Really? Honda and Yamaha had teams using both of the two tyres, and the top finisher for each of those factories rode Michelin. By far the most significant thing wrong with the 07 Michelin tyres was that Casey Stoner didn't have them when he won

woody996 said:

Fair enough with your first comment. 2010 Rossi was lacking for a lot of the season but there was a reason for that - not an excuse.



Yes Rossi did build up a huge fan base partly through his success/domination but equally through his personality and the 'show' that he liked to put on. Mick Doohan didn't have the same fan base through his years of domination. I guess he was from that rock out in the middle of nowhere called Australia though.

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Yes there is a reason. Rossi was unable to perform at his best due to the consequences of mistakes he made trying to match Lorenzo. That's racing, sometimes you get beaten, even on a level playing field.



And yes Doohan never had the same commercial appeal as Rossi, but 'true' fans of the sport are still talking about and admiring his achievements now, largely due to his domination rather than in spite of it.

johnnyvvc said:

To expect him to be top 5 when there are at least 5 to 6 guys who are at the top of thier game, not injured, on top spec bikes, riding in form etc etc is a bit nieve, if thats how you spell it?



He is good but he no ....... magician, although i was expecting top ten.

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Rossi was in good enough shape to be on the podium just the day before.

His deficiancy on the Ducati cannot reasonably be blamed on the injuries.



Just say it and get it over with:



Rossi is not going to develop an overnight rapport with the Ducati the way Stoner did.

See... doesn't that feel better?



Both riders have their special strengths and weaknesses. Stoner's ability to go fast right away is not

something Rossi can mimic. And Rossi's ability to develop a bike - it would seem - is not something Stoner has been able to duplicate.

Tom said:

Really? Honda and Yamaha had teams using both of the two tyres, and the top finisher for each of those factories rode Michelin. By far the most significant thing wrong with the 07 Michelin tyres was that Casey Stoner didn't have them when he won

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That comes down to the quality of the rider with the Michelin vs the quality of the rider with the Bridgestones in 07 so it is reasonable that pedrosa and Rossi would top the other riders. To go that last part though and beat stoner took Rossi on Bridgestones in 08. Would not have happened if Rossi was on michelins.

Tom said:

Yes there is a reason. Rossi was unable to perform at his best due to the consequences of mistakes he made trying to match Lorenzo. That's racing, sometimes you get beaten, even on a level playing field.



And yes Doohan never had the same commercial appeal as Rossi, but 'true' fans of the sport are still talking about and admiring his achievements now, largely due to his domination rather than in spite of it.

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why doesn't rossi get the same benefit of the doubt? it's doohan so he's praised for his DOMINATION. but when it's rossi, he's dominated the competition but mostly because of his supposed advantages...and how motogp is scripted (sorry jumkie lol)

I would say Doohan's years of domination were mostly against inferior competition similar to Rossi's years of Domination uo until the 800's were mostly against inferior competition. Lorenzo and Stoner would have smoked Sete, Max, Criville and the like.

Mental Anarchist said:

I would say Doohan's years of domination were mostly against inferior competition similar to Rossi's years of Domination uo until the 800's were mostly against inferior competition. Lorenzo and Stoner would have smoked Sete, Max, Criville and the like.

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Would you say the same about bayliss? Just asking as both bayliss and doohan were still going at a ripe old age and maybe the lack of competition was a big contributor to their success. Not trying to take anything away from them, just throwing a question out there.

Keshav said:

Rossi was in good enough shape to be on the podium just the day before.

His deficiancy on the Ducati cannot reasonably be blamed on the injuries.

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So you don't think that a having ridden for a whole weekend, then having to do two 12 hour days would effect him? That week he was effectively on a bike longer than he had been since the previous February tests at Sepang.

Goatboy said:

So you don't think that a having ridden for a whole weekend, then having to do two 12 hour days would effect him? That week he was effectively on a bike longer than he had been since the previous February tests at Sepang.

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I don't bother trying to defend Rossi's performance in this regard as a lot of people have already convicted and sentenced him and they simply don't accept that his injury was bad enough that it still significantly affected him at the test.

I have no evidence in my posession (instead I must rely on the accuracy of media reports) to support the severity of the injury so arguing on this point is like banging your head against a wall. So... having said that... good luck.

Goatboy said:

So you don't think that a having ridden for a whole weekend, then having to do two 12 hour days would effect him? That week he was effectively on a bike longer than he had been since the previous February tests at Sepang.

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So what of the other riders? They went through the same weekend? WHy are you ignoring that? Are you saying Rossi alone has an achille's heel in regard to stamina? none of us are saying that .......





It just gets more and more illogical

Goatboy said:

So you don't think that a having ridden for a whole weekend, then having to do two 12 hour days would effect him? That week he was effectively on a bike longer than he had been since the previous February tests at Sepang.

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Dani finished top 5 in testing with more of a problem shoulder than Rossi.

povol said:

Dani finished top 5 in testing with more of a problem shoulder than Rossi.

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X actly

woody996 said:

Would you say the same about bayliss? Just asking as both bayliss and doohan were still going at a ripe old age and maybe the lack of competition was a big contributor to their success. Not trying to take anything away from them, just throwing a question out there.

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My comment had nothing to do with age it had to do with domination and the competition during those years of domination. I wouldn't necessarily say that Bayliss dominated the same as Doohan and Rossi have done. I consider Bayliss to be one of the great champions of the sport but he is irrelevant to the discussion.



My comment was in regards to the competition that both Doohan and Rossi faced during their years of domination. Personally I don't think the competition was great. Since the competition has improved with the likes of Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa I don't think Rossi has dominated the same he did against Giberneau and Biaggi.

Goatboy said:

So you don't think that a having ridden for a whole weekend, then having to do two 12 hour days would effect him? That week he was effectively on a bike longer than he had been since the previous February tests at Sepang.

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Goat & Woods, first off good on u for not simply dismissing a counter opinion (though Woods, please see J4rnos take on test/ shoulder issue). 2nd, dont forget he had a rest day! Also, a test is so unlike a race, more like a practice. Very little pressure unlike a race. Remember, its only one hot lap that goes down as ur measure of position for the test. I said this before, surely after testing here and there he would hav attempted a few hot laps. Sure the shoulder may hav bothered, but for a lap or two he might put it aside which should b easier than doing that for a race distance. Woody, dont make mistake and say peeps r crucifying him, please couple this with Ducati's subsequent message. They indicate that Rossi struggled, there conclude they must "improve". Again last month at Jerez, what was the message, "we r here to help Rossi". We r not making this up, just pointing it out. It would hav been easier to say the shoulder was a big problem had the man not podiumed against a very hungry field.

Tekniqs said:

why doesn't rossi get the same benefit of the doubt? it's doohan so he's praised for his DOMINATION. but when it's rossi, he's dominated the competition but mostly because of his supposed advantages...and how motogp is scripted (sorry jumkie lol)

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No need for apology Teks. Actually, ive made a case that Doohans dominance was less impressive than Rossis. Did u read that? Both get the admiration they deserve and some undeserved (imo). But pointing out that Doohan rode during Honda cup doesnt get peeps all wound up! Thats completely opposite for certain breed of Rossi fans. What makes SOME Rossi fans go all crazy when i point out a certain advantage like tires, then out come the "hater" remarks, but we can talk about Doohans lack of competition but not be relegated as horrible humans? Where does that peculiar difference come from? Only a person who treats their leader as a cultic figure would get such an intense vile reaction! U can see perhaps why theyve gained a particular reputation. Teks hav u ever noticed the mere mention of Saturday Night Specials gets some peeps acting like TNT? why? Did they not exist? Yet u ask above why only Doohan is praised. But i disagree, Rossi is praised too! This praise by us "haters" gets consistenly overlooked and dismissed. The problem is those 'particular fans' demand praise ALL THE TIME. Then beyond that, and demand that nothing be said implied or insinuated that Rossi had benefits or flaws. YET, these exact peeps have been the first to vilify & belittle Rossi's rivals. What do these riders hav in common: Gibernau, Biaggi, Hayden, Stoner, and now to a lesser degree Lorenzo? What particular fan has vilified, booed, dismissed, and very directly belittled their accomplishmens in regard to Rossis? Tek, this is not imaginary, its real, and its a pattern. I dont consider U part of that group, as uve never come unglued at the mention of certain aspects we argue about in GP; but u should be able to point this peculiar group out right? Its not like its that hard to recognize them when they pop up in a thread.



Btw, ur not gonna like the next part. To answer ur reasoning above, i think the difference is some people recognize that Doohan was simply on the best package by default, where as Rossi perhaps was more by design; (at least thats my bias opinion). Again, ive lost count how many times ive said this but here goes again for u Teks: "The bikes dont ride themselves, so a great rider had to ride them to wins." (Thats a Rossi compliment if u didnt detect it.) the thing is, and what gets me into hot water with the peculiar fan i described above is, i cant sit here and say they didnt hav real advatages knowing damn well that they existed. Thats the thing brotha, no offense, eh.

woody996 said:

That comes down to the quality of the rider with the Michelin vs the quality of the rider with the Bridgestones in 07 so it is reasonable that pedrosa and Rossi would top the other riders. To go that last part though and beat stoner took Rossi on Bridgestones in 08. Would not have happened if Rossi was on michelins.

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Yes, but what bridgestones was stoner on in 2008?.

Keshav said:

Rossi was in good enough shape to be on the podium just the day before.

His deficiancy on the Ducati cannot reasonably be blamed on the injuries.



Just say it and get it over with:



Rossi is not going to develop an overnight rapport with the Ducati the way Stoner did.

See... doesn't that feel better?



Both riders have their special strengths and weaknesses. Stoner's ability to go fast right away is not

something Rossi can mimic. And Rossi's ability to develop a bike - it would seem - is not something Stoner has been able to duplicate.

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Hi Kesh, hows the temp over there in the big Apple?



I aggree with pretty much all your post and i wasnt trying to say that the injury stopped him riding due to pain or fatigue although i think that did play a part for him as it probably did for DePuniet too.

However if you had an injury that if you fell hard on it again could end your career, would you go balls out on a bike you had never rode before that has a reputation for being a beast...i know i certainly wouldnt. Plus it seemed it was more of a familiarisation for him, he just didnt look the same. I think the people with yellow glasses were expecting him to blast the grid into the weeds & it just didnt happen, in fact quite the opposite.



If we look back at 2004 Rossi wasnt fast on the Yamaha right until the very last test & first race in Welkom. Pretty much the same as Stoner, he wasnt at the top of the time sheets unitl the Qatar (I need to check this as i cant remember fully), solets just wait & see shall we.

none taken jumkie haha! i know the group of posters you are alluding to but i don't think you can deny there is also a group of posters that do the exact opposite.

would you say rossi had a lot to do with being on the 'best' bike since he's had a large part in developing and molding them into winners?

speaking of which, how was doohan when it came to developing bikes?

povol said:

Dani finished top 5 in testing with more of a problem shoulder than Rossi.

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Dani did finish 5th & he didnt do many laps either - on a team & bike he has been riding for the past 5 years & a bike thats easier to ride.



People keep saying Rossi aint no god & its true he isnt, so stop expecting the results of a god. If people must compare this with Stoner's rides before the 07 season then he wasnt fast straight away either.



I am most impressed with Depuniet & Nicky - Still the most underrated riders on the grid, lets hope they can upset the establishment in 2011.