Stoner Ruining the Sport

stiefel said:

RE the comments about Indy:



1) Riders have every right to complain about a tracks. They are the ones that have to compete on them. Whether we want to listen is our choice.



2) Every single rider on the grid has complained about the track-surface at Indy. Why do Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Stoner get singled out?



3) See point 2: Is that because Stoner had the nerve to say that he did not enjoy riding this track as much as other ones? You prefer hypocrisy?



4) That opinion piece quoted above. Sounds to me like a massive amount of US arrogance. Like it's a sin to say something bad about a track that has some special significance to nascar fans. How many riders do you think have said they don't enjoy riding Assen as much as they used to anymore, now that the track has a new lay-out? You don't see the Dutch get their panties in a bunch about that. Nor would they if they would .... up repaving their track and get scolded for that. Or ask the Belgians about how many times they were criticized and had to change Spa. You don't see them throwing tantrums like Mr. Kravitz about this perceived insolence. And these 2 are examples of circuits that actually are iconic for motorcycle racing and F1, respectively.



5) So what was repugnant and ungracious? Complaining about the track surface and the associated graining of the tire (every rider did, including Hayden)? Or saying that, because the track was run the wrong way around, most corners tightened up rather than opened up, making the track not very fun to ride (while making specific reference to the excellent facilities of the place in the same interview)? Or was it mentioning saying that winning at Indy does not make riding at Indy necessarily more pleasurable? Or maybe it was pointing out that there are many tracks around the world and many are just simply more fun to ride than Indy?



Now, before I get 1500 word-count .... hurled at me, note that I am arguing for the right of the riders (anyone of them) to speak their minds and not have to behave like media puppets, not against Indy. My personal opinion of the track is pretty ambivalent. I don't mind them racing their, I enjoyed this last race very much actually, I do think that the track is about as exciting as Motegi (i.e. not very). For this particular round, the circuit owners seem to have made a huge mistake by forgetting to let the new surface get rubbed in. On the whole, thinking of Indy for me brings the Top Gear motto to mind: 'ambitious, but rubbish'.



For me, the most important thing about a track is the track itself and the racing it produces. If Indy has the best nightlife, parking lots and grid girls in the world, good on them, but that matters f#$ all to me, and it probably does not matter to many of the other people sitting behind their tv watching. I'd much prefer a track like Miller.

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povol said:

Dont know where your from, but that right there should prove to the writer of the article, that outside of Indianapolis and the open wheel community, nobody really considers Indy to be hallowed ground. It should also be an eye opener to the Indy series that a race fan anywhere in the world, would put 2 and 2 together, and come up with Indy and Nascar as their first thought. Indianapolis is famous worldwide for 1 race, and it's not the annual Nascar race.

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levigarrett said:

Indy is not famous for NASCAR, not even a little. Frankly, NASCAR isn't anywhere near as popular in the US as many Euro centric racing snobs would have us all believe. 12 miles from my home is the Daytona Int'l Speedway......that's a famous NASCAR circuit. Indy is completely different.



At the same time, MotoGP in the US is about as popular as Major League Soccer. That's not a compliment! Again, Euro centric fans are misunderstanding the US audience. Nobody including those at IMS will be even remotely put out by GP leaving Indy should that take place. If Indy were to host a GP race once a month it probably wouldn't contribute nearly enough to eclipse their two biggest yearly events. MotoGP just isn't that important here. Americans are absolutely inundated with professional sports. There are so many teams and sports that I can't foresee MotoGP ever becoming in the US what it is in Europe. It's great to have a GP race at Indy, if it leaves, there'll be 8 other channels to surf with non-stop sports.



If MotoGP doesn't want to race at Indy, so be it. I think one race a year at Laguna is plenty. If the Spanish fans want four races a year and will patronize them consistently, let them eat cake!! They deserve it.

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Jumkie said:

Well buddy, Mental, Steif, who is arguing a "right" to complain or citing "American arrogance", which is your entire basis for your post, which sounds like a Stoner defense to let him sound like what many detractors accuse him of, a moaner and whiner. Its about graciousness and not sounding like an insolent ...., which is what Casey is doing more and more these days, with a few others in tow. The US is as free as probably where ever you're from, but sounding like a rude kid transcends boarders. There are much beyters ways of framing ur issues. And Kravitz mentioned it.

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levigarrett said:

Indy is not famous for NASCAR, not even a little. Frankly, NASCAR isn't anywhere near as popular in the US as many Euro centric racing snobs would have us all believe. 12 miles from my home is the Daytona Int'l Speedway......that's a famous NASCAR circuit. Indy is completely different.



At the same time, MotoGP in the US is about as popular as Major League Soccer. That's not a compliment! Again, Euro centric fans are misunderstanding the US audience. Nobody including those at IMS will be even remotely put out by GP leaving Indy should that take place. If Indy were to host a GP race once a month it probably wouldn't contribute nearly enough to eclipse their two biggest yearly events. MotoGP just isn't that important here. Americans are absolutely inundated with professional sports. There are so many teams and sports that I can't foresee MotoGP ever becoming in the US what it is in Europe. It's great to have a GP race at Indy, if it leaves, there'll be 8 other channels to surf with non-stop sports.



If MotoGP doesn't want to race at Indy, so be it. I think one race a year at Laguna is plenty. If the Spanish fans want four races a year and will patronize them consistently, let them eat cake!! They deserve it.

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stiefel said:

Ah, c'mon Jums, I've typed my fingers numb and you won't even take the trouble of properly arguing this thing?



I made it clear that the American arrogance remark was in relation to that local hack opinion piece. Citing this as the basis for my entire post is neither true nor fair. Of course, I had a motive to slip that in there, but I won't go into to that.

You also (deliberately?) ignore that this is not a matter of defending Stoner but the right of any rider to speak their minds. I don't care for the politically correct pussyfication that is forced down the riders throat at all.

So which of the statements do you believe to be 'ungracious', 'repugnant' or 'insolent'? I've already listed the ones I've heard from Stoner, maybe you heard something else?

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povol said:

You might want to rethink that.





The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing Inc. (NASCAR) is the sanctioning body for one of North America's premier sports. NASCAR is the No. 1 spectator sport -- with more of the top 20 highest-attended sporting events in the U.S. than any other sport -- and is the No. 2 rated regular-season sport on television. NASCAR races are broadcast in more than 150 countries and in 20 languages.



Its pretty damn popular, second only to the NFL. When you consider all of the college and pro sports that are offered, that is heady stuff.

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Jumkie said:

Well, Mental didn't want to read a 8K easy.

I didn't ignore any parts of your well written post friend. I just disagreed with the premise. I get that they have a right to complain, and I'm with you on the pussyfication of sports quotes, but there is a way to make it sound like your telling the truth without sounding like Mat Mladin.

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Jumkie said:

20 countries? I didn't know the Southern States were considered countries.

I've read this before, but I don't know how they come up with those numbers. Most people know way more about our stick and ball sports than Nascar.

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Jumkie said:

20 countries? I didn't know the Southern States were considered countries.

I've read this before, but I don't know how they come up with those numbers. Most people know way more about our stick and ball sports than Nascar.

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povol said:

That 150 countries, and 20 different languages. The south is the hub of Nascar, but it gets high ratings across the board.



There is this thing called the Nielsen ratings on the tv side, you might have heard of them. On the spectator side, Nascar routinely packs 100-160 thousand people into tracks week after week for 36 weeks. There is not 1 NFL stadium that seats 100k, with most in the 70-80's, and some in the 60's, Its figured on a per event basis with Nascar having the largest crowds in 17 of the top 20 sporting events in the country. The NFL is king, to that there is no doubt, but Nascar is wildly popular.

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povol said:

That 150 countries, and 20 different languages. The south is the hub of Nascar, but it gets high ratings across the board.



There is this thing called the Nielsen ratings on the tv side, you might have heard of them. On the spectator side, Nascar routinely packs 100-160 thousand people into tracks week after week for 36 weeks. There is not 1 NFL stadium that seats 100k, with most in the 70-80's, and some in the 60's, Its figured on a per event basis with Nascar having the largest crowds in 17 of the top 20 sporting events in the country. The NFL is king, to that there is no doubt, but Nascar is wildly popular.

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Jumkie said:

That dude is right!





Well I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree with peeps taking digs at the track, and totally agree with Mr. Kravitz, who nailed my sentiments and I would add...



Indy has bent over backwards to try and make this event memorable, safe, and accessible. What more do people want?

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Jumkie said:

Bro, the NFL to Nascar comparison is so funny. Yes, you're right that there is not a NFL stadium as big as a track venue, hahaha. But Nascar is a one rave per event, where as the NFL has 10+ events the same weekend. Baseball has 162 games, so at any given time there are 10 games per day for 6 months. Same with pro basketball, we are not even getting into college sports. Let me give you an idea of the numbers, the LA Dodgers, my home baseball team get over 3 million thru the gates every year! There are 30 teams in baseball.



Here in Cali, I have been to the Nascar event at CaliSpeedway. As you say, over 100K, packed and sold out. Its awesome, but of those, probably 20K follow the sport, the rest of us show up because its a party and a big event that comes around once a year. Its probably popular, but there is no way it trumps the collective following of the big stick and ball sports.



Btw, I also go to the Long Beach GP, open wheel racing, and we get higher attendance than MotoGP events, but people show up to see the show and have no idea who is racing and any particulars of the series.

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Keshav said:

Gonna have to respectfully disagree. People (well, real race fans) want, a non-boring layout, with positive and negative camber turns and at least two or three elevation changes. Not a flat-... go-kart track with a side of banking. I

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Keshav said:

Gonna have to respectfully disagree. People (well, real race fans) want, a non-boring layout, with positive and negative camber turns and at least two or three elevation changes. Not a flat-... go-kart track with a side of banking. I

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Jumkie said:

Well buddy, Mental, Steif, who is arguing a "right" to complain or citing "American arrogance", which is your entire basis for your post, which sounds like a Stoner defense to let him sound like what many detractors accuse him of, a moaner and whiner. Its about graciousness and not sounding like an insolent ...., which is what Casey is doing more and more these days, with a few others in tow. The US is as free as probably where ever you're from, but sounding like a rude kid transcends boarders. There are much better ways of framing ur issues. And Kravitz mentioned it.

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