Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa not going to Japan

BarryMachine said:

Do you seriously want me to make a judgement on that?

Is that the only advice the riders have?



Would you issue that to the riders (or their representative/adviser) and expect them to go based on that alone?















Anyway its all early stages yet ......... I'm still half of the mind that the "no go" threat could possibly be a way of ensuring everything possible will be done so that if they do go, they will be safe.

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i don't know why you bother participating in the forum barry, since you are always correct on any subject, and apparently anything stoner does or decides is also correct, so there would appear to be little point in you entering into discussion with anyone.



I don't know what advice stoner et al have taken, if any, it is fairly easy to get advice that suits your predetermined view as tony abbott frequently demonstrates. If they have advice that allows them to make an irrevocable decision I would be interested to hear it since I haven't heard it including at an international scientific meeting 6 weeks ago (either formally or informally) and I am involved in this area professionally at least as much as you purportedly are in engineering etc, although someone posted today on another forum that the british government has advised not travelling to within 200km of fukushima. Again I would like to see the basis of this, but if stoner et al knew this was pending, I would accept this as them basing their decision on at least some independent advice, erroneous or not.

michaelm said:

i don't know why you bother participating in the forum barry, since you are always correct on any subject,

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I could be just plain good you know!! Anyway you are Mr Fence sitter !!! what ever comes from that?

michaelm said:

and apparently anything stoner does or decides is also correct, there isn't much point entering in you entering into discussion with anyone.

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If it were just Stoner I would probably even agree with you , but since it is not this is just another case where I am right and you are wrong

michaelm said:

I don't know what advice stoner et al have taken,

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And yet here you are passing some pretty damning judgement on them Come on Mick! you are making it hard to be wrong here !!

BarryMachine said:

And yet here you are passing some pretty damning judgement on them

Come on Mick! you are making it hard to be wrong here !!

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Talk is cheap on the internet as we all know, although I don't question your claims to technical expertise. FWIW, my point was that I am somewhat professionally involved in this area, I follow things like this including following the chernobyl data for the last 25 odd years, I was at an international conference in June which a significant number of international experts who might be consulted about this attended, and I am not aware of any data that would make it already definite that motegi should be cancelled, and whilst it is not impossible that such data will emerge, if it already exists I can't see why it would be a secret from the general scientific community but available to motogp riders.



On the other forum it is now being said the british government guideline is to stay 60km away from fukushima, which is about what I would consider reasonable from what I know.

spooky said:

Toby Moodys take on things



says it all really...

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This article really nails it. Any rider who doesn't go to Motegi without there being Organizer-Team - Rider consensus based on a factual report certifying environmental conditions being too dangerous - should be FIRED for 2012 for breach of contract . They are all talented riders, but not one of them is qualified to personally - objectively - scientifically assess the environmental conditions aroiund Motegi.



ImO most of the riders currently big-mouthing the "I won't go" are just making noise. If pre Motegi there is a <25 points gap between the championship contenders we'll be hearing different noises. Wouldn't it be a joke to see the likes of Bayliss, Biaggi, Hopper, Checa and even better if possible some of the old farts Mick, KRJR and..................... standing in for those who should be fired for 2012.



Unfortunately, I don't think they'll be looking for a sooooo old Goldie club racer like me to race the Duc 11.1.XX - even though I'd pay my own ticket to Motegi and get back into my leathers by then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just asked one of my friends who is a Nuclear Design Engineer for Areva GmBH in Frankfurt, Germany. She was at the Fukushima site a few days after it occurred. According to her it's relatively safe and if you're 50+km away you'll be fine. She also said that if they are not riding due to the proximity of the site they are ignorant plain and simple (her words not mine).

Two team managers have already muttered that they'll rip up their riders' current contracts and re-hire them under new conditions so that they would be in breach of contract to create a situation like the one we're currently experiencing

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Not too hard to figure this one out....................................................





















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michaelm said:

Talk is cheap on the internet as we all know, although I don't question your claims to technical expertise. FWIW, my point was that I am somewhat professionally involved in this area, I follow things like this including following the chernobyl data for the last 25 odd years, I was at an international conference in June which a significant number of international experts who might be consulted about this attended, and I am not aware of any data that would make it already definite that motegi should be cancelled, and whilst it is not impossible that such data will emerge, if it already exists I can't see why it would be a secret from the general scientific community but available to motogp riders.

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But Michael ................ I haven't claimed any technical expertise on the matters of radiation at all



I am merely claiming that there seems to be a bit of a "witch hunt" going on here, before any data of any independent survey is released to those complaining.



We need to wait for the results.

ptk50 said:

This article really nails it. Any rider who doesn't go to Motegi without there being Organizer-Team - Rider consensus based on a factual report certifying environmental conditions being too dangerous - should be FIRED for 2012 for breach of contract . They are all talented riders, but not one of them is qualified to personally - objectively - scientifically assess the environmental conditions aroiund Motegi.



ImO most of the riders currently big-mouthing the "I won't go" are just making noise. If pre Motegi there is a <25 points gap between the championship contenders we'll be hearing different noises. Wouldn't it be a joke to see the likes of Bayliss, Biaggi, Hopper, Checa and even better if possible some of the old farts Mick, KRJR and..................... standing in for those who should be fired for 2012.



Unfortunately, I don't think they'll be looking for a sooooo old Goldie club racer like me to race the Duc 11.1.XX - even though I'd pay my own ticket to Motegi and get back into my leathers by then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Totally agree...they really have no idea do they. My opinion of some of the riders has changed because of their ill concieved notions of what is/isn't safe, they aren't scientists! Its morally unjust and hypocrytical what with their stickers on their bikes etc, Japan needs their support.

spooky said:

Totally agree...they really have no idea do they. My opinion of some of the riders has changed because of their ill concieved notions of what is/isn't safe, they aren't scientists! Its morally unjust and hypocrytical what with their stickers on their bikes etc, Japan needs their support.

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I'm in complete agreement how better to help raise the public spirit f Japan than to bring a sport there that is loved and will take their minds away from the current situation even if it is momentarily. I put my life in danger nearly every day with my job and see no satisfaction from the locals here in Afghanistan. If I had the same opportunity to race at Motegi even if I didn't do well knowing that I gave back to the people would make it more than worthwhile. Call me a bleeding heart whatever I don't care...

AaronG87 said:

I'm in complete agreement how better to help raise the public spirit f Japan than to bring a sport there that is loved and will take their minds away from the current situation even if it is momentarily. I put my life in danger nearly every day with my job and see no satisfaction from the locals here in Afghanistan. If I had the same opportunity to race at Motegi even if I didn't do well knowing that I gave back to the people would make it more than worthwhile. Call me a bleeding heart whatever I don't care...

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On the contrary, the Japanese don't give a damn about motorcycle racing any more. 15 years ago, yes, but just take a look at the attendance and entry quality for the Suzuka 8 hours and you'll see that things have fallen off a cliff. I am not saying this from opinion, a good friend lives in Japan and is quite upset about it. The kids are into customized scooters now, the people that attend the races are older and their numbers are dropping.

Bigguy said:

On the contrary, the Japanese don't give a damn about motorcycle racing any more. 15 years ago, yes, but just take a look at the attendance and entry quality for the Suzuka 8 hours and you'll see that things have fallen off a cliff. I am not saying this from opinion, a good friend lives in Japan and is quite upset about it. The kids are into customized scooters now, the people that attend the races are older and their numbers are dropping.

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I was implying racing in general but, whatever I'm sure racing has taken a bit of a dive in attendance and overall viewers just about everywhere. I know in the states it's hit or miss unless youre trying to watch NASCAR then, it would be easy to watch. Speed Channel and Spike are about the only ones that offer other forms of motorsports.

It's true Aaron, numbers are down in most areas, but from what I am told the Japanese, especially the youth, were infatuated by motorcycle racing for a good while, but they just don't care now. Watch, Motegi will have record attendance just to prove me wrong, but I'm told the general populace is uninterested now. Exceptions to every rule, of course, just like here in the States where most most don't give damn but some few are fanatics.

Bigguy said:

It's true Aaron, numbers are down in most areas, but from what I am told the Japanese, especially the youth, were infatuated by motorcycle racing for a good while, but they just don't care now. Watch, Motegi will have record attendance just to prove me wrong, but I'm told the general populace is uninterested now. Exceptions to every rule, of course, just like here in the States where most most don't give damn but some few are fanatics.

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I am inclined to agree with you on all points. I think Motegi will have a high attendance maybe not from true fans but, people making some sort of attempt to show support for Japan. I'm not sure how many people will want to watch this race though with some of the series best riders not in attendance. That point right there for both of the biggest manufacturers in motorcycles as a whole seems like a gigantic kick to their carbon fiber, titanium and aluminum laden testicles......

Bigguy said:

It's true Aaron, numbers are down in most areas, but from what I am told the Japanese, especially the youth, were infatuated by motorcycle racing for a good while, but they just don't care now. Watch, Motegi will have record attendance just to prove me wrong, but I'm told the general populace is uninterested now. Exceptions to every rule, of course, just like here in the States where most most don't give damn but some few are fanatics.

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I am inclined to agree with you on all points. I think Motegi will have a high attendance maybe not from true fans but, people making some sort of attempt to show support for Japan. I'm not sure how many people will want to watch this race though with some of the series best riders not in attendance. That point right there for both of the biggest manufacturers in motorcycles as a whole seems like a gigantic kick to their carbon fiber, titanium and aluminum laden testicles......

BarryMachine said:

But Michael ................ I haven't claimed any technical expertise on the matters of radiation at all

I am merely claiming that there seems to be a bit of a "witch hunt" going on here, before any data of any independent survey is released to those complaining.



We need to wait for the results.

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No, but you dismiss my technical expertise as you dismiss everything that anyone says if you feel like it, often on the basis of "special" knowledge or experience that you apparently have.



I am not saying it is totally unreasonable for the riders to be concerned, there are people professionally involved in medical imaging like a proportion of radiographers who become concerned about ionising radiation and decide to only work in ultrasound or MRI despite lack of evidence for their occupational level of radiation exposure being harmful, but even in their case the level of radiation is thousands of times more.



What is being objected to are purported statements (you have a point there, I haven't seen direct quotes) that stoner and lorenzo won't go regardless of independent advice, lorenzo apparently after watching a documentary about chernobyl on TV. You are saying that they may have advice of which we are unaware, I am saying I am fairly sure such advice doesn't exist.



If there is some sort of conspiracy why is toby moody involved, since if the conspiracy is successful it will presumably result in him attending motegi at personal risk? To be consistently illogical, the riders shouldn't ride honda bikes manufactured within 140 km of fukushima, or at least restrict themselves to bikes and parts manufactured before the accident, which would make their engine supply situation interesting . As someone said elsewhere, boycotting motegi is also not likely to endear casey stoner to the honda workers and management, many of whom live and work in the vicinity of motegi.

According to kropotkin there has been a softening of the riders' attitude with many now saying they will wait for the results of a commissioned independent report, which is all that can be asked of them.



He also says there is much reluctance from the crews, so perhaps stoner and lorenzo are standing up for them.

Great, now I have to get up at 6am, bloody radiation.

Goatboy said:

Great, now I have to get up at 6am, bloody radiation.

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But it's a good reaon for getting up.

Just thought I'd mention that your Avatar looks very Duci-Rossi-esque - all that Red & Yellow - dare I say Bopperesque - are you coming out of your closet slowly - absolutely no offense meant

ptk50 said:

But it's a good reaon for getting up.

Just thought I'd mention that your Avatar looks very Duci-Rossi-esque - all that Red & Yellow - dare I say Bopperesque - are you coming out of your closet slowly - absolutely no offense meant

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I was only mock moaning.



If you cut me I bleed yellow, always have, always will.