<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 12 2008, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I didn't see any film of stoner's crash. Was there any evidence of a carbon fibre chassis
?
I repeat again that even as a stoner fan I believe that the 800cc formula was poorly considered and that it looks increasingly as though they need to devise a better one quickly. It is also pretty obvious though that riding the ducati fast does require a reasonable amount of input from casey and that he is still pushing close to the edge, perhaps unnecessarily in fp2 to play psychological dominance games.
It is getting a bit tired to hear the continued refrain from some that when other riders do well it is due to their skill but that casey stoner uniquely in the field succeeds by technical advantage.
Stoner did a bunch of quick laps in the 121's, then in the last 20 mins or so he had a few troubles in section 3 in the timing. Twice he was on really hot laps, then in T3 he lost over half a second, running wide. The last time when he crashed he was also in the T3 section. Still, when he went to the garage he seemed unfazed, even laughing about what happened. He doesn't seem too worried. De Angelis put in 1 quick lap toward the end, but Stoner was so far ahead of anyone else in the session, he seemed like he was on another track.
I repeat again that even as a stoner fan I believe that the 800cc formula was poorly considered and that it looks increasingly as though they need to devise a better one quickly. It is also pretty obvious though that riding the ducati fast does require a reasonable amount of input from casey and that he is still pushing close to the edge, perhaps unnecessarily in fp2 to play psychological dominance games.
It is getting a bit tired to hear the continued refrain from some that when other riders do well it is due to their skill but that casey stoner uniquely in the field succeeds by technical advantage.
Stoner did a bunch of quick laps in the 121's, then in the last 20 mins or so he had a few troubles in section 3 in the timing. Twice he was on really hot laps, then in T3 he lost over half a second, running wide. The last time when he crashed he was also in the T3 section. Still, when he went to the garage he seemed unfazed, even laughing about what happened. He doesn't seem too worried. De Angelis put in 1 quick lap toward the end, but Stoner was so far ahead of anyone else in the session, he seemed like he was on another track.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 11 2008, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is getting a bit tired to hear the continued refrain from some that when other riders do well it is due to their skill but that casey stoner uniquely in the field succeeds by technical advantage.
Stop crying, suck it up and realize he IS on a bike that is faster than the competitors bikes. Just pray the Japs respond or we're all gonna fall asleep.
Stop crying, suck it up and realize he IS on a bike that is faster than the competitors bikes. Just pray the Japs respond or we're all gonna fall asleep.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 11 2008, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I didn't see any film of stoner's crash. Was there any evidence of a carbon fibre chassis
?
I repeat again that even as a stoner fan I believe that the 800cc formula was poorly considered and that it looks increasingly as though they need to devise a better one quickly. It is also pretty obvious though that riding the ducati fast does require a reasonable amount of input from casey and that he is still pushing close to the edge, perhaps unnecessarily in fp2 to play psychological dominance games.
It is getting a bit tired to hear the continued refrain from some that when other riders do well it is due to their skill but that casey stoner uniquely in the field succeeds by technical advantage.
I agree with both these statements. Firstly the 990's were just fine and everyone liked them. Pedrosa was the only one to struggle so much cause of his size. Amazing that the whole series was put back cause of one rider supposed to be the champ. They have to manufacture a championship for him to win.
I also am real tired of people saying how stoner isn't that great of a rider and talent. He is better than everyone last year and this year he is proving that he has the fortitude to make a comeback and fight for the title. He is winning and that is the bottom line.
I repeat again that even as a stoner fan I believe that the 800cc formula was poorly considered and that it looks increasingly as though they need to devise a better one quickly. It is also pretty obvious though that riding the ducati fast does require a reasonable amount of input from casey and that he is still pushing close to the edge, perhaps unnecessarily in fp2 to play psychological dominance games.
It is getting a bit tired to hear the continued refrain from some that when other riders do well it is due to their skill but that casey stoner uniquely in the field succeeds by technical advantage.
I agree with both these statements. Firstly the 990's were just fine and everyone liked them. Pedrosa was the only one to struggle so much cause of his size. Amazing that the whole series was put back cause of one rider supposed to be the champ. They have to manufacture a championship for him to win.
I also am real tired of people saying how stoner isn't that great of a rider and talent. He is better than everyone last year and this year he is proving that he has the fortitude to make a comeback and fight for the title. He is winning and that is the bottom line.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 11 2008, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with both these statements. Firstly the 990's were just fine and everyone liked them. Pedrosa was the only one to struggle so much cause of his size. Amazing that the whole series was put back cause of one rider supposed to be the champ. They have to manufacture a championship for him to win.
The rules were agreed by people besides Pedrosa, and before Dani's ability to ride the 990 was known. As it turns out he was rookie of the year, won races and was a champiosnhip contender for a respectable amount of time. Have you got ANY evidence that the switch to 800cc bikes had anything to do with Pedrosa.
The rules were agreed by people besides Pedrosa, and before Dani's ability to ride the 990 was known. As it turns out he was rookie of the year, won races and was a champiosnhip contender for a respectable amount of time. Have you got ANY evidence that the switch to 800cc bikes had anything to do with Pedrosa.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 11 2008, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The rules were agreed by people besides Pedrosa, and before Dani's ability to ride the 990 was known. As it turns out he was rookie of the year, won races and was a champiosnhip contender for a respectable amount of time. Have you got ANY evidence that the switch to 800cc bikes had anything to do with Pedrosa.
Why else would Honda push so hard for it? It was Honda that bent eveyone elses hands to change to 800.
Why else would Honda push so hard for it? It was Honda that bent eveyone elses hands to change to 800.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evolution @ Jul 11 2008, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why else would Honda push so hard for it? It was Honda that bent eveyone elses hands to change to 800.
it was for "safety"
it was for "safety"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Doc 79 @ Jul 11 2008, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stop crying, suck it up and realize he IS on a bike that is faster than the competitors bikes. Just pray the Japs respond or we're all gonna fall asleep.
I am getting older, but still have excellent vision and I have watched all the races this year, which apparently you may not have. Casey stoner was on a bike which proved faster than his competitors at qatar, donnington, assen and in fp1 and fp2 in germany. Unless memory fails me his bike didn't prove faster than his competitors at jerez, estoril, catalunya , mugello, france or shanghai, hence my point. I also didn't cry over any of these losses and gave credit to the winners, particularly valentino, even though the ducati at some of these races seemed to be making serious attempts to kill casey. Tony elias and marco melandri seem to think their ducatis are continuing to attempt to kill them.
I am glad to see you are tuning in to the unique australian ethos promulgated so vehemently by mick doohan of crying when we are winning.
I am getting older, but still have excellent vision and I have watched all the races this year, which apparently you may not have. Casey stoner was on a bike which proved faster than his competitors at qatar, donnington, assen and in fp1 and fp2 in germany. Unless memory fails me his bike didn't prove faster than his competitors at jerez, estoril, catalunya , mugello, france or shanghai, hence my point. I also didn't cry over any of these losses and gave credit to the winners, particularly valentino, even though the ducati at some of these races seemed to be making serious attempts to kill casey. Tony elias and marco melandri seem to think their ducatis are continuing to attempt to kill them.
I am glad to see you are tuning in to the unique australian ethos promulgated so vehemently by mick doohan of crying when we are winning.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 11 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The rules were agreed by people besides Pedrosa, and before Dani's ability to ride the 990 was known. As it turns out he was rookie of the year, won races and was a champiosnhip contender for a respectable amount of time. Have you got ANY evidence that the switch to 800cc bikes had anything to do with Pedrosa.
As I recall reading, HRC was the primary proponent of the switch to a lower displacement, this in turn put political pressure on FIM and Dorna to lower the CC to 800 citing that top speeds were now becoming too fast for the current level of run off at even the biggest tracks. The common belief was that HRC pushed for this because a drop in displacement would not only favor them in terms of financial ability (R&D costs) but it would also shorten the adjustment period for Dani as he would have needed a season or two more on a 990 to master it. (not that he wasn't doing well already) The logic here is based on a widely agreed upon (yet still disputed by non racers) observation by riders that the 800cc handles more like a 250.
As I recall reading, HRC was the primary proponent of the switch to a lower displacement, this in turn put political pressure on FIM and Dorna to lower the CC to 800 citing that top speeds were now becoming too fast for the current level of run off at even the biggest tracks. The common belief was that HRC pushed for this because a drop in displacement would not only favor them in terms of financial ability (R&D costs) but it would also shorten the adjustment period for Dani as he would have needed a season or two more on a 990 to master it. (not that he wasn't doing well already) The logic here is based on a widely agreed upon (yet still disputed by non racers) observation by riders that the 800cc handles more like a 250.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Doc 79 @ Jul 11 2008, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As I recall reading, HRC was the primary proponent of the switch to a lower displacement, this in turn put political pressure on FIM and Dorna to lower the CC to 800 citing that top speeds were now becoming too fast for the current level of run off at even the biggest tracks. The common belief was that HRC pushed for this because a drop in displacement would not only favor them in terms of financial ability (R&D costs) but it would also shorten the adjustment period for Dani as he would have needed a season or two more on a 990 to master it. (not that he wasn't doing well already) The logic here is based on a widely agreed upon (yet still disputed by non racers) observation by riders that the 800cc handles more like a 250.
Just as i thought
Just as i thought
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Some of you people crack me up.When Rossi was dominating and winning going away,you were tossing your rocks all over the tv screen and coming on boards like this talking about how ....... awesome Valentino was and how he smoked a field of the best damn riders in the world,....... he was on another planet.Now its someone else and its a snore fest.You can go from jacking off in excitement when its your guy to taking a nap when its not.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 11 2008, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The rules were agreed by people besides Pedrosa, and before Dani's ability to ride the 990 was known. As it turns out he was rookie of the year, won races and was a champiosnhip contender for a respectable amount of time. Have you got ANY evidence that the switch to 800cc bikes had anything to do with Pedrosa.
Yes I do. Te bike is small He is small. Honda knew way ahead of time that he would be a factory rider and how Repsol a SPANISH company and they demand a spanish Champion. So honda has to do their best to make all the other makers buy into the safety issue so they could get the midget on the smaller bike which he will be able to control better and get his precious championship for SPAIN. OHHH OHH OHH all HAil the Champ. Can anyone see him ?
Yes I do. Te bike is small He is small. Honda knew way ahead of time that he would be a factory rider and how Repsol a SPANISH company and they demand a spanish Champion. So honda has to do their best to make all the other makers buy into the safety issue so they could get the midget on the smaller bike which he will be able to control better and get his precious championship for SPAIN. OHHH OHH OHH all HAil the Champ. Can anyone see him ?
I would actually prefer closer racing (particularly in retrospect after the rider I support has won) and would agree with the many who think the 800cc formula militates against this. There is still some pleasure to be gained from watching supreme riding skills like those of doohan and rossi at their best. If tom and others who were actually at assen are to be believed the way stoner rode the ducati was something to behold.
You pays your money and you takes your choice in this business. Valentino in particular could be on any bike he chose. Stoner is very likely on at least potentially the fastest bike in the field at the moment, but it would seem equally likely this was not so earlier in the year. Yamaha, jb and rossi will not sit still and we may have an equal battle as soon as sunday, not that anyone will really know if the bikes are ever equal. One thing I am fairly sure of is that stoner will not lose because he is intimidated by rossi, which has been the case with talented riders in the past even on possibly better machinery.
You pays your money and you takes your choice in this business. Valentino in particular could be on any bike he chose. Stoner is very likely on at least potentially the fastest bike in the field at the moment, but it would seem equally likely this was not so earlier in the year. Yamaha, jb and rossi will not sit still and we may have an equal battle as soon as sunday, not that anyone will really know if the bikes are ever equal. One thing I am fairly sure of is that stoner will not lose because he is intimidated by rossi, which has been the case with talented riders in the past even on possibly better machinery.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 11 2008, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some of you people crack me up.When Rossi was dominating and winning going away,you were tossing your rocks all over the tv screen and coming on boards like this talking about how ....... awesome Valentino was and how he smoked a field of the best damn riders in the world,....... he was on another planet.Now its someone else and its a snore fest.You can go from jacking off in excitement when its your guy to taking a nap when its not.
no no no.... whenever "any" rider runs away its a snore fest, you may like these non racing events but i think its ...., ive said when pedro done it and i said it when rossi done it.
no no no.... whenever "any" rider runs away its a snore fest, you may like these non racing events but i think its ...., ive said when pedro done it and i said it when rossi done it.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 11 2008, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no no no.... whenever "any" rider runs away its a snore fest, you may like these non racing events but i think its ...., ive said when pedro done it and i said it when rossi done it.
+1
"THIS" is a race...
<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
+1
"THIS" is a race...
<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
Joined Feb 2007
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Bottom line,this is a prototype series.Its about engineering and building the better mousetrap.Its about ideas,different suspensions,engine configurations,tire technology etc:.Realistically,its not supposed to be about close racing,its about about beating the other guys off the drawing board and onto the track.If you like close racing,thats fine,spec racing is for you.I personally dont mind watching some guy kick the .... out of everybody.It makes everybody up their game which eventually means i get a better honed machine when i go to buy.Things get stagnant in the development stage when you limit the developers.I enjoy all kinds of bike racing, AMA,WSB,Moto GP,Supercross,Motocross,you name it, but when it comes down to GP,its about the advancement in technology that keeps me interested.I can watch WSB and get the close racing fix, but on cookie cutter bikes.Its cool and all,but it aint the ultimate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jul 11 2008, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+1
"THIS" is a race...
<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
Brilliant.
Somebody send a copy of this video, as well as a copy of this Sunday's race, to Ezpeleta. I'm sure the differences will be glaring.
"THIS" is a race...
<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NabRkLmV-aM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
Brilliant.
Somebody send a copy of this video, as well as a copy of this Sunday's race, to Ezpeleta. I'm sure the differences will be glaring.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Jul 11 2008, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Brilliant.
Somebody send a copy of this video, as well as a copy of this Sunday's race, to Ezpeleta. I'm sure the differences will be glaring.
They even look like proper bikes.
Somebody send a copy of this video, as well as a copy of this Sunday's race, to Ezpeleta. I'm sure the differences will be glaring.
They even look like proper bikes.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 11 2008, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They even look like proper bikes.
Looked better, sounded better, smelled better....you name it..it was better.
Looked better, sounded better, smelled better....you name it..it was better.
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