Round 7: 2017 Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya

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Iamapony said:
This sounds odd to me, since I am not particularly a "fan" of Jlo. Thus "boundless optimism" is not really what I feel. The Ducati is better than most around here seem to think, and Lorenzo is adapting. He must have some skill to win three Championships against some tough competition, don't you think? And you add those twos together and you get four. But, I will give him fifth with my "optimism" for this year. Sixth is probably more realistic with the mediocre start. But, like Pedrosa, if he gets in a groove, he is very consistent.
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I'd hazard that nobody here is underestimating the Ducati. It's just a question of it's competence relative to the better sorted Japanese bikes.

Re: Lorenzo's talent; again, nobody here is selling him short. Remember, Mr. 9-times world champion is not without talent, and yet he never did .... on the Ducati. Lorenzo is essentially defined by his riding style, and shows little evidence of being able to adapt. Everyone keeps expecting the second coming of Casey Stoner; as yet it hasn't happened. I think if Stoner hadn't kicked ass the way he did on the Duc, neither Rossi or Lorenzo would have been foolhardy enough to try and duplicate his results.

In the event - Lorenzo won't break into the top four at the end of the season and it won't be due to lack of skills.
 
Keshav said:
I'd hazard that nobody here is underestimating the Ducati. It's just a question of it's competence relative to the better sorted Japanese bikes.

Re: Lorenzo's talent; again, nobody here is selling him short. Remember, Mr. 9-times world champion is not without talent, and yet he never did .... on the Ducati. Lorenzo is essentially defined by his riding style, and shows little evidence of being able to adapt. Everyone keeps expecting the second coming of Casey Stoner; as yet it hasn't happened. I think if Stoner hadn't kicked ass the way he did on the Duc, neither Rossi or Lorenzo would have been foolhardy enough to try and duplicate his results.

In the event - Lorenzo won't break into the top four at the end of the season and it won't be due to lack of skills.
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You are underestimating Ducati right here. Of course it's always compared to someone else, or it isn't racing. Who had two bikes on the Podium last week? Who has two bikes on the front row for tomorrow? Who has six bikes in the top ten grid positions this week? It ain't BMW.

Lorenzo break into the top four? I said he would finish fifth or sixth. So you are agreeing, or are you saying he won't ever finish a race in the top four?

You should watch today's activities again. Lorenzo is changing, just like Rossi changed to stay competitive. Watch his corner entry after heavy braking. It is very different for him. It is similar to how Bayliss and other Superbike riders throw the bike into the corner with a taller shoulder. And neither the rules nor the machines are the same from when Stoner or Rossi rode for Ducati. The correlation is only that Rossi and Lorenzo rode a winning Yamaha before going to Ducati.
 
Iamapony said:
You are underestimating Ducati right here. Of course it's always compared to someone else, or it isn't racing. Who had two bikes on the Podium last week? Who has two bikes on the front row for tomorrow? Who has six bikes in the top ten grid positions this week? It ain't BMW.

Lorenzo break into the top four? I said he would finish fifth or sixth. So you are agreeing, or are you saying he won't ever finish a race in the top four?

You should watch today's activities again. Lorenzo is changing, just like Rossi changed to stay competitive. Watch his corner entry after heavy braking. It is very different for him. It is similar to how Bayliss and other Superbike riders throw the bike into the corner with a taller shoulder. And neither the rules nor the machines are the same from when Stoner or Rossi rode for Ducati. The correlation is only that Rossi and Lorenzo rode a winning Yamaha before going to Ducati.
Click to expand...

Please, you didn't notice the heavy braking and corner entry change for Lorenzo till I told you. :p
 
Iamapony said:
You are underestimating Ducati right here. Of course it's always compared to someone else, or it isn't racing. Who had two bikes on the Podium last week? Who has two bikes on the front row for tomorrow? Who has six bikes in the top ten grid positions this week? It ain't BMW.

Lorenzo break into the top four? I said he would finish fifth or sixth. So you are agreeing, or are you saying he won't ever finish a race in the top four?

You should watch today's activities again. Lorenzo is changing, just like Rossi changed to stay competitive. Watch his corner entry after heavy braking. It is very different for him. It is similar to how Bayliss and other Superbike riders throw the bike into the corner with a taller shoulder. And neither the rules nor the machines are the same from when Stoner or Rossi rode for Ducati. The correlation is only that Rossi and Lorenzo rode a winning Yamaha before going to Ducati.
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Dude - now you're starting to ask me to argue against things I never implied. I never said, Ducati isn't racing. I said they're not capable, as yet, of being as competitive as the better sorted out bikes; hence won't win a championship until they do a radical redesign of the engine.

As to whether or not "it isn't racing" - the bar is not too high. I mean, the guy on the slowest bike on the track is technically racing; but he ain't winning.

Re: Last week... there are always going to be anomalous, perfect storm weekends, where enough riders on Jap bikes DNF or have the flu or get taken out and an unexpected rider ends up on the podium. Christ, even Crutchlow managed to win a race once. But no rider since Stoner has managed to put the Duc at the top of the podium - consistently. We all would like to see Ducati win a championship - but I don't believe it's going to happen with the current engine. Full disclosure - I don't believe in Santa Claus either.

Read my post again. I said Lorenzo won't end up as high as fourth in the overall championship points at end of season.

And why muddy the water re: BMW. .... man, they're not even in the series. Ducati have a pedigree in this racing class that the other Italian bikes don't come close to. They should be doing better. Look how competitive Vinales was on the Suzuki last year and they've just barely returned to the arena.

And while the Duc has undergone many iterations, the core issue holding it back since the beginning of the four-stroke era, remains the same. It's the over-large, awkward engine configuration that no rider other than Stoner (who was properly burned out from doing so) has been able to adequately compensate for - sufficient to win a championship. Rossi didn't and neither will Lorenzo. I'd bet money on it.
 
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Rossi's tyre
front%20tyre-XL.png
 
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Gaz said:
I want Cal to win it and a webcam pointing at JPS when he does :p
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Gaz, you mistakenly think I would be bothered if he wins any more races.

I wasn't bothered by him winning last year by any means.

Hard to believe, but I can think he is a piece of .... after the way he handled his Ducati stint and not be much bothered by him winning races.
 
Theo said:
Oh really? I'd like to see you ride a race bike. Anyway .... doesn't have legs and if it did it'd be diarrhoea, which is what your comment is, verbal diarrhoea. :thumbdown:
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I'm just calling it like I see it...a quality of Cal's that was being held up in this topic.
 
JPSLotus said:
Gaz, you mistakenly think I would be bothered if he wins any more races.

I wasn't bothered by him winning last year by any means.

Hard to believe, but I can think he is a piece of .... after the way he handled his Ducati stint and not be much bothered by him winning races.
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You take some things waaaaaaay to personal as opposed to pisstake mate.


And I say that as no matter how brutal you have been with riders, you also do not fail to give credit where due thus I know full well that if Crutchlow gets a good result through effort, ability and skill you will credit him just as you have in the past.
 
Keshav said:
Dude - now you're starting to ask me to argue against things I never implied.
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I am not asking you to do ..... I asked what you meant. You are impossible to discuss this with because you don't understand analogies or figures of speech or apparently even what you say. So I give up. All you want to do is say someone is wrong without any sound arguments. Did you watch the gif that GAZ posted? Lorenzo has changed his riding. Period. But, you close your eyes to that, I guess. And you cannot accept any success of Ducati, except to say it is an anomaly. Just like Stoner, I suppose. Seriously, if I am not having intellectual stimulation or fun with this discussion, so I will stop.
 
The race today will be interesting in terms of racing. But if you favor Yamaha then I believe you should watch something else. Anyway I think the best think for the sport will be:

1. Dani
2. Marquez
3. Rossi

the Goat is far away from the podium but who knows, right? Good luck to Maverick as well but if he is 7-8th the championship is ON again.

P.S This is coming from a Rossi fan for 20 years :)
 
By all reports, race pace during long runs in practice showed Dani, then a postcode, then Dovi and Rossi, so expect Rossi on the podium
 
Viñalez is starting to understand what it means to be Dorna's teammate.
 
Gaz said:
By all reports, race pace during long runs in practice showed Dani, then a postcode, then Dovi and Rossi, so expect Rossi on the podium
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Don't forget Jorge:


"A troll through the MotoGP FP4 analysis timesheets suggests a couple of riders are likely to be strong. Dani Pedrosa has race pace half a second or so quicker than anyone else on the grid. Jorge Lorenzo has pretty strong pace too, the best of the rest but no match for Pedrosa. Behind Lorenzo, Andrea Dovizioso and Valentino Rossi stand out, though Rossi was trying to downplay his chances"

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2017/06/10/2017_barcelona_motogp_saturday_notes_a.html
 

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