Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

michaelm · Sep 13, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
The same can be said about music...completely lacks context and available like tap water.

The Internet is so vast that you can find just about anything online, no matter how unreasonable and bizarre it is. So employing an efficient filter is often necessary to help to tell fact from fiction and to prevent people from inadvertently spreading nonsense because viral stories exploit your biases in an effort to get you to click like, share or retweet.The digital revolution, which has brought boundless access to information and entertainment choices, has somehow tended to perversely enhance the lowest common denominators— 'LOL' cat videos and the Kardashians. Instead of educating themselves via the Internet, most people lacking the necessary critical faculty, simply use it for reinforcement of their beliefs, to validate what they already suspect, wish or believe to be true. It creates an online environment where Jenny McCarthy, a former Playboy model with a high school education, can become a worldwide leader of the anti-vaccination movement, naysaying the advice of medical practitioners and over a century of clinical evidence based research..

The other thing is the amount out there is so vast and discrimination so poor that what will be recorded for posterity is also doubtful. In the medical world records that would probably have been kept on hard copy somewhere for 50 years are now sometimes on crashed archives and irretrievable within 15 years.

My brother, an excellent English teacher, tells me many of his students believe there is no need to learn anything with everything immediately available on the internet, rather a problem for developing critical faculties as you say.

Where music is concerned, I have mainly gone back to vinyl. Like you, I think music needs context, and an LP was also about the right length for popular music, with CDs allowing too much filler even regardless of where one stands on digital vs analog sound quality etc. I am setting up for hi-res digital, but without much enthusiasm.

Finish line · Sep 13, 2016

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKTKvE6DnRy/

Rossi vs Lorenzo from a different angle.

IMO it's just racing. Rossi went in where there was enough room, was optimistic and went wide.
At the same time is not much different from what Zarco did in Silverstone. Zarco was just unlucky and took Lowes out. I wonder what would happen if the same thing happened here.

p4p1 · Sep 13, 2016

Lorenzo would've been blamed

Jumkie · Sep 13, 2016

Finish line said:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BKTKvE6DnRy/

Rossi vs Lorenzo from a different angle.

IMO it's just racing. Rossi went in where there was enough room, was optimistic and went wide.
At the same time is not much different from what Zarco did in Silverstone. Zarco was just unlucky and took Lowes out. I wonder what would happen if the same thing happened here.

Thanks for posting.

Ok, so this is just for sake of discussion, I already said the move was hard but within racing standards, albiet on the aggressive side of spectrum. Look how wide Rossi ends up. For comparison, look at the correct apex as seen from the other riders. Lorenzo was already committed to that apex. So for Rossi to run so wide, you can say Rossi used Lorenzo as a berm and very least barged Lorenzo out of way because he carried to much angle and speed to execute that turn on the race line. Pretend for a minute Lorenzo doesn't exist, how far wide would have Rossi ended up? As it is he ends up a third away from the apex, where the other riders are hugging the curbing as they flow through it. So yes, it was necessary for Lorenzo to take evasive action or a collision was inevitable.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

JPSLotus · Sep 13, 2016

Finish line said:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BKTKvE6DnRy/

Rossi vs Lorenzo from a different angle.

IMO it's just racing. Rossi went in where there was enough room, was optimistic and went wide.
At the same time is not much different from what Zarco did in Silverstone. Zarco was just unlucky and took Lowes out. I wonder what would happen if the same thing happened here.

This is pretty interesting as the TV angle made it look pretty normal. I thought he took a tight line. Didn't realize how far wide he ran. He also came into that corner far hotter than anyone else did. But that does fit with my impression during the race that when he made his move, I thought it was too late. But when they changed to the camera angle aimed at turn 14, I thought I was wrong. Initial impression was in fact correct. If Lorenzo didn't stand up, that would have been a crash.

danski · Sep 13, 2016

Jumkie said:
Thanks for posting.

Ok, so this is just for sake of discussion, I already said the move was hard but within racing standards, albiet on the aggressive side of spectrum. Look how wide Rossi ends up. For comparison, look at the correct apex as seen from the other riders. Lorenzo was already committed to that apex. So for Rossi to run so wide, you can say Rossi used Lorenzo as a berm and very least barged Lorenzo out of way because he carried to much angle and speed to execute that turn on the race line. Pretend for a minute Lorenzo doesn't exist, how far wide would have Rossi ended up? As it is he ends up a third away from the apex, where the other riders are hugging the curbing as they flow through it. So yes, it was necessary for Lorenzo to take evasive action or a collision was inevitable.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

If Lorenzo isn't there Rossi hits the apex normally, in fact it's only because Lorenzo went so wide that VR sees the chance and takes it thus entering the corner a few mph faster and forcing his wider exit line. They didn't actually touch so no berm was used.

JPSLotus · Sep 13, 2016

Daniboy said:
If Lorenzo isn't there Rossi hits the apex normally, in fact it's only because Lorenzo went so wide that VR sees the chance and takes it thus entering the corner a few mph faster and forcing his wider exit line. They didn't actually touch so no berm was used.

At that speed, Rossi never makes the apex normally. This is not contingent on Lorenzo being there or not, he ran wider than anyone else coming into the corner because his speed was too much for the corner entry.

Jumkie · Sep 13, 2016

Daniboy said:
If Lorenzo isn't there Rossi hits the apex normally, in fact it's only because Lorenzo went so wide that VR sees the chance and takes it thus entering the corner a few mph faster and forcing his wider exit line. They didn't actually touch so no berm was used.Better video

I agree that's what would have happened, yes Rossi wouldn't have had a reason to take that trajectory, though you're factoring in that Lorenzo was there. My question is, take Rossi’s trajectory and make Lorenzo disappear from that sequence in your mind, that should give us a good picture of how acute was Rossi's angle and hence going way off the apex. Again, we're discussing it for ..... and giggles, as this pass really doesn't warrant this much scrutiny. We've seen a pass like this by midpack riders and didn’t give it a second thought.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

danski · Sep 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
At that speed, Rossi never makes the apex normally. This is not contingent on Lorenzo being there or not, he ran wider than anyone else coming into the corner because his speed was too much for the corner entry.

Rossi's line wasn't wide, he turns in way early and off the standard line everyone else bar Lorenzo was using, Lorenzo turns in later than the rest. I say the gap was there and VR took it and ran wide as he claimed the corner first.

Jumkie · Sep 13, 2016

Daniboy said:
Rossi's line wasn't wide, he turns in way early and off the standard line everyone else bar Lorenzo was using, Lorenzo turns in later than the rest. I say the gap was there and VR took it and ran wide as he claimed the corner first.

Yes, I agree there was space to exploit, I can even make the case Zarco used the "gap" left by Lowes, after all, there was like 2 feet of curbing left for Zarco. What I'm getting at, since we are splitting hairs for the fun of discussion is that Rossi's angle of approach was very acute (which you agree with above). How acute? Well, take Lorenzo out of the equation just to focus on Rossi's trajectory for a moment. I'm posing it this way to get a better idea of where we can place the overtaking on a spectrum of audacious vs impeccable--as this is what we are getting at, you get me?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Iamapony · Sep 13, 2016

The trouble here is that it is a double apex corner. Most riders hang tight on the inside through the first part AND second part. But that isn't the only solution. Lorenzo takes a late line, and for Rossi that looks like an opening. Rossi's line works, too for the first apex, but puts him at an odd angle for the second. I can understand Lorenzo's displeasure, but taking that late turn-in was just too inviting for someone like Rossi. Minor incident. Fo-get-about-it.

JPSLotus · Sep 13, 2016

Daniboy said:
Rossi's line wasn't wide, he turns in way early and off the standard line everyone else bar Lorenzo was using, Lorenzo turns in later than the rest. I say the gap was there and VR took it and ran wide as he claimed the corner first.

Lorenzo was turning in late because I think the plan was to let Rossi run wide, and then undercut him before the exit. But Rossi came in to block Lorenzo from trying to undercut him on the corner exit. Undercutting is a good way to defend if your opponent isn't planning to block you.

It is what it is. I really don't give a .... about the pass at all. I didn't see Lorenzo getting away from Rossi when he needed to, so the pass was just a matter of when.

danski · Sep 13, 2016

Jumkie said:
Yes, I agree there was space to exploit, I can even make the case Zarco used the "gap" left by Lowes, after all, there was like 2 feet of curbing left for Zarco. What I'm getting at, since we are splitting hairs for the fun of discussion is that Rossi's angle of approach was very acute (which you agree with above). How acute? Well, take Lorenzo out of the equation just to focus on Rossi's trajectory for a moment. I'm posing it this way to get a better idea of where we can place the overtaking on a spectrum of audacious vs impeccable--as this is what we are getting at, you get me?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Audacious Sundays Pass Impeccable
Without further ado, I place the offending/great pass right in the middle

Jumkie · Sep 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Lorenzo was turning in late because I think the plan was to let Rossi run wide, and then undercut him before the exit. But Rossi came in to block Lorenzo from trying to undercut him on the corner exit. Undercutting is a good way to defend if your opponent isn't planning to block you.

It is what it is. I really don't give a .... about the pass at all. I didn't see Lorenzo getting away from Rossi when he needed to, so the pass was just a matter of when.

I disagree, Lorenzo was surprised Rossi took such an acute entry, Lorenzo was committed, hence having to check up. Anyway, as you say, it's not enough to write a book about, though we are giving it a go, thanks of course to our fearless media corps making it a public discussion point and these two obligingly going along. We could just as well talk about Pedrosa's overtaking and scrutiny the .... out of it, but then again Rossi was so savvy in his description of it that the smiles and jovial facade effective made it a non talking point despite Valentino taking a dig at both Marquez and Pedrosa. Our fearless media corps could have taken Rossi to task with a question like: 'So Rossi, why do you describe Pedrosa's pass Marquezesk? What are you trying to say, are you still upset with Marquez passing you cleanly? Do you still think he cheated you? When are you going to get over your ridiculous witch hunt and start telling your fans to stop behaving like ..... to echo your displeasure at them on the podium?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Jumkie · Sep 13, 2016

Change of subject: which helmet was more menacing? Which helmet struck fear into the competition?

Exhibit A:

Exhibit V:

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

JPSLotus · Sep 13, 2016

Exhibit V because it gives me the impression of two meth addicted gay guys that would be ready to tag-team your ... in search of more crystal meth.

danski · Sep 13, 2016

Anybody see this, respect!!

Finish line · Sep 13, 2016

Daniboy said:
Anybody see this, respect!!

Somebody posted that yesterday.
I don't know where NH lives... Who hates Dani? I can't find one reason to.
He may not be loud enough to sell his name like Rossi, Marquez and Sic (his stuff still sells better than Lorenzo's and Dani's), but everyone loves him. I didn't read one single comment against him. Everyone is happy for him (and I come from a country where everyone but Rossi is hated).

p4p1 · Sep 13, 2016

It's blurry on my phone what does it say?

Motokitty · Sep 13, 2016

Not a helmet but it looks pretty fruity to me.

Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

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