Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

Arrabbiata1 said:

That said, of late, Rossi appears to enjoy hard racing only so long as he prevails. I felt his objections after Philip Island last year and the outrage from his band of obsessives was particularly rich given the scorn directed at Stoner's remarks post Laguna 2008.

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Agree, but with a proviso, I think that's always the case for most riders, generally in the past when Rossi has had a hard battle he's either won, or been in such a place in the championship (either ahead, or behind) that he didn't have to worry to much about it.
Lorenzo was pretty down after Catalunya 2009 and that was a pivotal point in the championship, if he'd won that he'd probably have called it his best race ever and might well have gone on to win the championship.



What I guess I'm trying to come to in a roundabout way is that no rider likes having a huge battle, giving it everything and coming out second, but its a lot harder to be all smiles for the camera when the championship is little by little slipping out of grasp.

MiddayGun said:

What I guess I'm trying to come to in a roundabout way is that no rider likes having a huge battle, giving it everything and coming out second, but its a lot harder to be all smiles for the camera when the championship is little by little slipping out of grasp.

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I recall that Valentino genuinely used to seem to enjoy fighting with Loris when he was competitive on the Ducati - largely because after Catalunya 2006 he was no threat. He always professes to relish close racing, but you can't have it both ways. He stated after Silverstone that his fight with Marc as hard but fair but I do get the impression that he wouldn't have been quite so magnanimous had Márquez finished ahead of him. PI was precisely that - Valentino's petulance sullied one of the races of the decade.

I recall the first time I really saw the fake smile slip was when Sete went under him on the last turn and lap of Sachsenring - 2003 I think. Right then, I knew his relationship with Gibernau would sour and he'd look for a way to demonise him. The same happened with his once supposed close friend Melandri when he started to run at the front for Gresini.

It'll be the same with Viñales, when he starts beating him, Vale will create a narrative that transforms him into the pantomime villain, toxifys the garage and within weeks his global army of minions will be mobilised against his new adversary.

Arrabbiata1 said:

I recall that Valentino genuinely used to seem to enjoy fighting with Loris when he was competitive on the Ducati - largely because after Catalunya 2006 he was no threat. He always professes to relish close racing, but you can't have it both ways. He stated after Silverstone that his fight with Marc as hard but fair but I do get the impression that he wouldn't have been quite so magnanimous had Márquez finished ahead of him. PI was precisely that - Valentino's petulance sullied one of the races of the decade.

I recall the first time I really saw the fake smile slip was when Sete went under him on the last turn and lap of Sachsenring - 2003 I think. Right then, I knew his relationship with Gibernau would sour and he'd look for a way to demonise him. The same happened with his once supposed close friend Melandri when he started to run at the front for Gresini.

It'll be the same with Viñales, when he starts beating him, Vale will create a narrative that transforms him into the pantomime villain, toxifys the garage and within weeks his global army of minions will be mobilised against his new adversary.

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Great post. It's the old football chant "you only sing when your winning". Rossi only has friends who he beats or are no threat.

Personally, I find it bad that in the press conference when journalist etc chuckle at Lorenzo. I thought he was quite refreshing in that he answered the question honestly. He said he was slower than Rossi and couldn't beat him in the race. He also said Rossi should respect his opinion, which as a professional he should. Rossi is to childish and pathetic to understand that and would rather play up to the camera and sheep audience.

Everyone laughed when Lorenzo called sic wrong for some dangerous riding, stating the bikes are very fast and heavy, they weren't laughing after Sepang that year

Arrabbiata1 said:

I recall that Valentino genuinely used to seem to enjoy fighting with Loris when he was competitive on the Ducati - largely because after Catalunya 2006 he was no threat. He always professes to relish close racing, but you can't have it both ways. He stated after Silverstone that his fight with Marc as hard but fair but I do get the impression that he wouldn't have been quite so magnanimous had Márquez finished ahead of him. PI was precisely that - Valentino's petulance sullied one of the races of the decade.

I recall the first time I really saw the fake smile slip was when Sete went under him on the last turn and lap of Sachsenring - 2003 I think. Right then, I knew his relationship with Gibernau would sour and he'd look for a way to demonise him. The same happened with his once supposed close friend Melandri when he started to run at the front for Gresini.

It'll be the same with Viñales, when he starts beating him, Vale will create a narrative that transforms him into the pantomime villain, toxifys the garage and within weeks his global army of minions will be mobilised against his new adversary.

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Quite a lot of Rossi's fans are absolute pricks, no doubt about that whatsoever. And while I don't think that Vinales will become the next villain, I do think that their relationship in the garage will be very very neutral.

Riders are only human, they have good and bad points, and good and bad days. I don't think its human nature to be friends with someone that you're competing with at a top level, especially when they're on the same equipment as you. Sooner or late the relationship will sour, there are the odd exceptions of people who are able to play second fiddle, notably Colin Edwards and Nicky Hayden off the top of my head.
But I don't think its possible for two genuinely top competitive riders to remain friends in the same team.

The difference between Rossi and the other riders is his huge fanbase, while riders get into rivalries all the time, whenever Rossi does there are a legion of idiots that take it way too far, incidents that would probably be forgotten or at least pushed aside from one race to the next between other riders get kept in the forefront of everyone's mind with constant abuse and vitriol on social media.

aaronl said:

I like the way Marquez sits on the bike. Always Very high elbows

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Hmmm..... you may have provided a clue to a potential workaround for Ducati and the others for 2017's wing ban. Riders could learn to not tuck in so much and wear spoilers on their forearms.

TLDR for newcomers ITT:

1) Conspiracy theorists
2) Salty tears
3) Nothing really new to see.

BTW, great ride from Pedrosa, I've always been saddened to see him fade so much in the last years. I was hoping for Vinales to catch up and maybe give us some fireworks but he didnt close the gap in the end of the race, too bad

So much for Crutchlow saying he had the pace for top 5, he got beat by Pirro, wtf?

APEX said:

TLDR for newcomers ITT:

1) Conspiracy theorists
2) Salty tears
3) Nothing really new to see.

BTW, great ride from Pedrosa, I've always been saddened to see him fade so much in the last years. I was hoping for Vinales to catch up and maybe give us some fireworks but he didnt close the gap in the end of the race, too bad

So much for Crutchlow saying he had the pace for top 5, he got beat by Pirro, wtf?

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Salty tears because Valentino is winning the world championship, as he did last year, and won the Misano race?

Richy56 said:

As you put it previously, he used him as a berm.

Was ok at assen but not ok here. Double standards like your yellow cheat hero

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You're absolutely blind if you think Rossi's pass at Misano has anything in common with Marc's attempted pass at Assen last year.

michaelm said:

Salty tears because Valentino is winning the world championship, as he did last year, and won the Misano race?

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Don't stop! Please! I love them

moto vudu said:

You're absolutely blind if you think Rossi's pass at Misano has anything in common with Marc's attempted pass at Assen last year.

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Maybe he took a cue from your blindness regarding your incorrect assessment of Lorenzo exceeding the track limits...

Richy56 said:

Everyone laughed when Lorenzo called sic wrong for some dangerous riding, stating the bikes are very fast and heavy, they weren't laughing after Sepang that year

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Exactly

Arrabbiata1 said:

I recall that Valentino genuinely used to seem to enjoy fighting with Loris when he was competitive on the Ducati - largely because after Catalunya 2006 he was no threat.

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It was Melandri wasn't it, who said Rossi is your friend until you start beating him. It's why he and Edwards were so chummy.

MiddayGun said:

Quite a lot of Rossi's fans are absolute pricks, no doubt about that whatsoever. And while I don't think that Vinales will become the next villain, I do think that their relationship in the garage will be very very neutral.

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He will absolutely be the next villain if he starts beating Rossi. Anyone who comes between him and this "10th" will be narrated as the sworn enemy, a bug that much be crushed in any way possible.

moto vudu said:

You're absolutely blind if you think Rossi's pass at Misano has anything in common with Marc's attempted pass at Assen last year.

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They were both overtakes...so they have that in common.

Rossi put one hard pass on jlo and he (and all of you) have a fit.
Boy. I wonder how jlo would have reacted if Rossi put 7 or 8 hard passes on him on this single lap?

steeeeeve said:

Rossi put one hard pass on jlo and he (and all of you) have a fit.

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Really?..

Arrabbiata1 said:

Agree.

Nothing wrong with Rossi's move which exploited Jorge's wide line - he also brake checked him which is the perfect way to upset a rider like Lorenzo's smooth flow and momentum. Lorenzo shouldn't have bitten. Watch Valencia 2013 back again and the moves he put on Pedrosa.

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Arrabbiata1 said:

Yesterday's race really emphasises my point about armchair racers who suggest that a riders 'head has gone' or 'they've lost it' without fully comprehending the contributory factors behind an individual riders malaise. Pedrosa's lack of form this year stems from balance, weight transfer, a lack of front end feel, braking, and an inability to hook up the Michelin rear given the cruder unified electronics package. Still the same rider - amazing what a soft compound and few degrees higher track temperature can do.

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Required reading as usual my friend.

I was thinking something similar as i analyzed Pedrosa's performance. This win did emphasis the 'main' problem that Pedrosa has experienced this year. I don't suppose they've changed the electronics or handling characteristics of the RCVs for this race, however one glaring change was that Michelin brought a harder tire, which Pedrosa could not make work and so 'opted' ("chose") the soft as a countermeasure, it turned out to be thee difference.

This race served as the perfect control group to sus out the single most glaring issue between all the variables and unmitigated issues confronting Pedrosa, as I've been saying, that issue is the tire. Pedrosa and Marquez on the same bikes, drastically different performance, what a difference a TIRE makes. Pedrosa went with a soft combination, Marquez the harder, Rossi, the man that was supposed to win and would have won in Jerez fashion had Pedro not taken the risk on a tire that was not supposed to last a race distance (hence why it was the rarest "choice"). I submit to you for consideration, this performance illustrated perfectly my assertion that it's this year's Michelin that has presented the greatest challenge to Pedrosa.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Iowegian said:

I think it was a fair pass (as I would no matter what two riders were involved) and I don't necessarily agree with Jorge it wasn't "necessary" at that point. Jorge has a habit of getting in front and pulling away from the others. If I were racing against him, I know I would do anything to get in front of him asap.

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I agree, it was necessary to pass Jorge immediately, I think what Lorenzo meant was that the maneuver itself didn’t need to be so audacious, there is a difference. Lorenzo did not initiate this complaint, something getting lost, he was answering a question, his opinion was Rossi's move was executed at an extreme angle which necessitated evasive action, this was in fact true. Rossi took issue with Lorenzo's opinion, hence the disagreement. I think technically both riders were correct in their assessment for their sensibilities. The pass was aggressive, Jorge was right. An early pass was necessary, Rossi was right. I don't have a problem with the move myself, granted I'm not the one out there. But this was not a rare variety of passing seen throughout the field at any given GP, though it was on the side of the aggressive spectrum, but within acceptable.

The take away here is this: Lorenzo lacks finesse and savvy to play the media game (I think Stoner lacked same hence why he wasn't beloved, and keep in mind, this was against Rossi, thee darling of the sport). Lorenzo could have made his point and made Rossi look like a chump, he ended up with the opposite! Had he said to the "journalist", 'great question, my answer is if Rossi insists on making such type of passes, he should not cry and whine to you journalists about it like he did last year. Maybe you reporters can ask him about that since you guys didn’t get an opportunity when Carmelo canceled the press conferences.'

Can you imagine the affect on Rossi had Lorenzo answered this way? That would have used the media as a weapon against Rossi (no, not that the media would have suddenly grown balls to grill Rossi) it would have served to keep Valentino thinking about last year, and by his own admission, it has hampered him mentally this year. Lorenzo is after all fighting with Rossi for the runner-up spot in the championship, and he could have used this moment to apply pressure on Rossi where it hurts most, his ego.

Opportunity lost.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

steeeeeve said:

Rossi put one hard pass on jlo and he (and all of you) have a fit.

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Arrabbiata1 said:

Really?..

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Iowegian said:

I think it was a fair pass (as I would no matter what two riders were involved) and I don't necessarily agree with Jorge it wasn't "necessary" at that point.

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To name but two people, plus myself, who didn't have a fit at the pass.

moto vudu said:

Dani knows when to stay out of things that have nothing to do with him.

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I dunno. He has the nickname Pedobot for a reason. He is a bit shy and a bit awkward speaking English. I don't hold it against him.

steeeeeve said:

Rossi put one hard pass on jlo and he (and all of you) have a fit.
Boy. I wonder how jlo would have reacted if Rossi put 7 or 8 hard passes on him on this single lap?

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Rossi fans see things through Rossi glasses: See below:

Iamapony said:

This Lorenzo-Rossi deal has gone on since JLo hit the big show. I don't see one as always right or always wrong. When JLo and others complained about Rossi at Catalunya 2009, I defended Rossi. I thought he was clean. Other times, I think he is wrong.

It's just a great team Rivalry, that I will miss when JLo moves. It will be interesting to see how Maverick deals with it. And I predict race weekend number two will start the serious denigration of MV by VR, with hints thrown around about what is to come at Qatar.

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Iamapony said:

I dunno. He has the nickname Pedobot for a reason. He is a bit shy and a bit awkward speaking English. I don't hold it against him.

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The Pedrobot moniker originated in 2006 and owes much to his perceived lack of personality and HRC conditioning. His apparent awkwardness and race face/ circuit persona belies his true character and reputedly has a very dry sense of humour. His spoken English is impeccable. I can also testify to this having quizzed him at Laguna in 2010 about the RCV211 and his preferences in respect of the 800cc and 990 formulas.

Richy56 said:

Personally, I find it bad that in the press conference when journalist etc chuckle at Lorenzo. I thought he was quite refreshing in that he answered the question honestly. He said he was slower than Rossi and couldn't beat him in the race. He also said Rossi should respect his opinion, which as a professional he should. Rossi is to childish and pathetic to understand that and would rather play up to the camera and sheep audience.

Everyone laughed when Lorenzo called sic wrong for some dangerous riding, stating the bikes are very fast and heavy, they weren't laughing after Sepang that year

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Excellent post. Especially your last point above. This was after all, Misano 'Marco Simoncelli' circuits.

Lorenzo's answer wasn't all that proactive either, he basically said it's Rossi's style. And he preface it by saying he understands they're could be different opinions about it. Of course as usual the actual words mean nothing, the optics were Lorenzo and Rossi had a disagreement, so obviously Lorenzo is wrong and a piece of .....


If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Arrabbiata1 said:

The Pedrobot moniker originated in 2006 and owes much to his perceived lack of personality and HRC conditioning. His apparent awkwardness and race face/ circuit persona belies his true character and reputedly has a very dry sense of humour. His spoken English is impeccable. I can also testify to this having quizzed him at Laguna in 2010 about the RCV211 and his preferences in respect of the 800cc and 990 formulas.

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He has the same english accent as steven hawking.