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Rossi & the Valencia test

I thought Rossi said he is almost expecting more testing,as there is too little as it is now.He and others are probarbly pushing for it.

And about Rossi testing Ducati in Valencia,maybe it's just the initial official standpoint (very bad English,sorry)from Yamaha to ban him.It might be changed.

As i understand(maybe i'm wrong), Yamaha hasn't coped too well with the bad economic climate,compared to others(Ducati for instance).

Could they be thinking:We had the biggest hero in racing today,but sales were not that great anyway.Maybe not enough people care or know about Rossi when buying bikes to justify having him.Lorenzo is fast,and winning championships is easier to explain to people.So maybe Yamaha don't feel they need to give Rossi the new forks or allowing him to test the Ducati in Valencia.Unless there would be too much bad press from it.
 
How would they even get the chance to do that? All of Rossi's side of the garage have been with him since Honda, it just wouldn't happen.



well the parties involved are all Yamaha employees....so if the order was given, then it could be followed through. I don't believe it did. I do think Spies did get some extra factory parts and it helped....but if he had Lorenzo's bike, he would not have done much better. He still has much to learn with the MotoGP bikes and tracks.



I hope Yamaha lets him test the Ducati right away.
 
michaelm said:
I hope they do let rossi test at valencia; I want to see how fast he is on the gp10 as it is, and how much and how quickly he can improve it apart from anything else.



I can see why yamaha might not want to allow him to test though, for the reasons you cogently list, although it would compound the already existing public relations disaster of valentino ditching them for ducati.



As you possibly imply the difference with hayden at the end of 2008 and stoner this year, apart perhaps from ducati returning the favour for honda releasing nicky, is that with the best will in the world both were basically punted by honda and ducati respectively, and it would have been dog -in -the mangerish in the extreme to hold them to their contracts when the choice had been made not to retain them, and even honda were decent enough not to do this to someone who had won a world championship for them.



As you say it has been suggested that yamaha are waiting to see how much valentino rips apart their motogp effort by taking current yamaha staff to ducati before granting him any favours, although jorge and ben already have their own crews which they would seem unlikely to want to change. Taking technical staff from the design side of things in addition to crew may be what concerns yamaha.



From the sound of things so far valentino is not going to trash yamaha, which is good, as it would be a shame for him to be estranged from both the companies for which he has had such success in his retirement, particularly if he doesn't win a title or titles for ducati ( I for one would not bet against him winning particularly in 2012).
 
With all due respect, (as you are not alone in this sentiment that Yamaha is protecting their investments) but are you perhaps forgetting this is a competition and not some highschool break-up? Rossi is becoming the competition now, and it would benefit Yamaha to keep him at bay as long as possible, otherwise, their move to keep Lorenzo looses value. Rossi is not being booted out, as they made him a fair offer, there are two sides to every story, though it seems for some Rossi fans its always just one sided. Put yourself in the very high stakes pressure packed shoes of Yamaha, and ask yourself, what is in your best interest? I'm sure its not all about the lack of professionalism that was shown by the Ducati CEO to ejaculate prematurely, as this was only reported as a possible repercussion by some journalist that it would have some effect on whether or not Rossi would be allowed to test the Duc at season end. Let me ask you this, did Rossi accept the terms of his contract? Did he cash the checks? So now why are people having a fit if Yamaha asks him to honor that contract? I suppose you might tell me that Yamaha has benefited greatly from Rossi, but is the reverse not also true? Did not Yamaha invest and develop and produce a winning combination to support Rossi's talent? Who usually gets the credit for the titles? Certainly not Yamaha, yet they are the one providing the package.



This same logic goes for those who are unhappy that Rossi was not allowed to test the new bike. Really, its not even debatable, its silly actually to give the reasons why this makes sense, so I've stayed away from arguing it. But please, the 2011 bike is the manufacture's next weapon to compete, and people want the rival to get a look at it? In what world does this make sense?



And lastly, this idea that Rossi is not being properly supported now that his contract choice is "official", even to the point of one suggesting his bike is actually a Tech3 spec bike in disguise (hahahaha, geez, how ridiculous). My take is, he (Rossi) should be given the best chance to compete, but in the world of championships, the reality is Lorenzo is the focus, as he should. What Rossi fan here would have endorsed the idea that Lorenzo should have burned up resources last year while Rossi was in the hunt for the title? Its a very tricky balancing act for Yamaha, but I think they have and will continue to support Rossi enough to allow him to compete for wins, as Lorenzo's points are not in jeopardy. That a certain sector of Rossi fans think otherwise (when he doesn't win may be quick to place the blame on Yamaha rather than the man) is another story. Oddly enough, I've been hearing for many years now how he can ride around problems...I guess it only applies conveniently. Kinda reminds me of when this "mundalito" will start, like perhaps once he wins, conveniently (as if true fans of the sport need some alternate reason to maintain interest in MotoGP). But if he doesn't win another race this season, well that type of fan has already found his excuse/rationalization--"ugly Yamaha". Sadly, this type of fan (and Sarita, I'm NOT talking about you here, simply your post was a good springboard, as your post echos some of the sentiment of a certain type of fan that I've become accustomed to debate) and continues to do Rossi a disservice, especially for those of us who admire the sport and the best riders such as Rossi.



Well I guess this means that Ducati don't believe Stoner will be a 'Threat' on the Honda then.......
 
Well I guess this means that Ducati don't believe Stoner will be a 'Threat' on the Honda then.......

Perhaps. Or perhaps they don't give a ..... Or perhaps they weighed the pros and cons, they figured pissing off Stoner might make for a motived rival. Perhaps they figured the little gained by delaying his test with Honda was not worth making bad waves. Perhaps they figured now that they have Rossi, they couldn't care less what Stoner does. Perhaps they are simply benevolent and appreciative that Stoner brought the brand its fist ever MotoGP title, and this carries lots of weight with a manufacture that has a passion for racing. Who the hell knows.
 
well the parties involved are all Yamaha employees....so if the order was given, then it could be followed through. I don't believe it did. I do think Spies did get some extra factory parts and it helped....but if he had Lorenzo's bike, he would not have done much better. He still has much to learn with the MotoGP bikes and tracks.



I hope Yamaha lets him test the Ducati right away.

That easy right? Laughable. Except this would be breach of contract, as Rossi is to have a full factory bike. So nice keeping that under wrap as I'm sure Rossi would be the first to notice. Keep in mind these guys can tell when something is clicked a millimeter, so getting a Tech3 spec bike might feel like hes riding a camel in a horse race.



I'm not so sure about the Spies thing, as it seems the factory bikes have been much more reliable (I think this is the second or third issue Spies has had with Tech3 bike). Spies reported having a discrepancy on the front end during Czech race. Despite Babelfish's argument to the contrary, a satellite bike is still a reasonable difference than the full factory spec. Even if they say "Yamaha" on the side of both.
 
Ducati are just playing the game ..... "look! ..... we can be nice ..... you should too" ........



Just not sure Yamaha have the patience for such games, nor is it in their culture.
 
Well I guess this means that Ducati don't believe Stoner will be a 'Threat' on the Honda then.......

They probably at least know that he will jump on the honda whenever he does and be immediately fast regardless of testing. You will doubtless also suggest that in addition they may not rate his developmental ability, although regardless of this, and despite his apparent lack thereof, the gp 08 and gp09 which were developed around him showed possible championship pace in his hands at least for a portion of both years but the gp10 has not as yet.



Rossi himself would seem to rate him as a threat because he has bothered to play some mind games with him since his return but not so with dani pedrosa.
 
Perhaps. Or perhaps they don't give a ..... Or perhaps they weighed the pros and cons, they figured pissing off Stoner might make for a motived rival. Perhaps they figured the little gained by delaying his test with Honda was not worth making bad waves. Perhaps they figured now that they have Rossi, they couldn't care less what Stoner does. Perhaps they are simply benevolent and appreciative that Stoner brought the brand its fist ever MotoGP title, and this carries lots of weight with a manufacture that has a passion for racing. Who the hell knows.





I think they were always going to release Stoner otherwise why on earth would they think that Yamaha would release Rossi. Yamaha would just say well "Ducati wouldn't release Stoner".



As much as I don't like it, if Yamaha don't release Rossi, they are making a smart commercial decision. There's no room for loyalty in business. Business is about money, protecting brands and gaining an advantage.

What I would like to see is that contracts complete at the last race of the season. What benefit is a departing rider to the team they are leaving if they can't test their next spec bike or other parts for the next year. They would be better off having their new rider in and testing away. I guess Yamaha has an advantage with this as Spies is already under contract to them so they don't have to try and get talent from elsewhere.
 
Woodsy, i agree, contracts should end last day of season. Does anybody know the logic behind contracts ending later?



MichM, agree on last post. Id even add that the GP10 was developed away from Stoner resulting in a bike than nobody can win on, not even Stoner (which wasnt the case with the enigmatic GP8&9. IMHO, The GP10 was developed more for the conventional rider, in hopes of attracting one, Lorenzo didnt bite, Rossi did. Even tho its been detrimental to Casey, its shown promise for Nicky, and perhaps this was part of the reason Rossi sees promise in the GP11.



Im intrigued at the prospect. But make no mistake, Ducati have moved many chips in Rossis direction for over a year i believe. And good for them cuz their gamble paid off with Rossis signing.
 
I think they were always going to release Stoner otherwise why on earth would they think that Yamaha would release Rossi. Yamaha would just say well "Ducati wouldn't release Stoner".



As much as I don't like it, if Yamaha don't release Rossi, they are making a smart commercial decision. There's no room for loyalty in business. Business is about money, protecting brands and gaining an advantage.

What I would like to see is that contracts complete at the last race of the season. What benefit is a departing rider to the team they are leaving if they can't test their next spec bike or other parts for the next year. They would be better off having their new rider in and testing away. I guess Yamaha has an advantage with this as Spies is already under contract to them so they don't have to try and get talent from elsewhere.

I agree with you also; your first point is an obvious and good one.
 
Let me ask you this, did Rossi accept the terms of his contract?



I believe those contracts have embedded clauses in them, and I really wonder what sort of a maze does all of that constitute to be so tricky a decision for Yamaha to make or for Rossi to have blindly accepted.



Did he cash the checks? So now why are people having a fit if Yamaha asks him to honor that contract? I suppose you might tell me that Yamaha has benefited greatly from Rossi, but is the reverse not also true?



Agree Rossi was paid massively, and yes he has got to be grateful for that to Yamaha by paying them back in the form of results and returns. But I would expect the business-side of Yamaha to grow some spine and fight its defecting rider by letting him wield the same weapons its current riders do. I am not sure how business "ethics" can be defined, but to someone skewed more towards emotion and passion than business ploys, I'd have expected the Yamaha-Rossi contract to contain an ethics-clause too. These clauses run so zigzag that there are loopholes everywhere thus choosing to benefit only Yamaha at judgement time. In my opinion, they have exhibited the typical ruthless business mindedness if the story is true, and it was something I did not expect would happen since I saw that first race of theirs in Welkom.





Did not Yamaha invest and develop and produce a winning combination to support Rossi's talent? Who usually gets the credit for the titles? Certainly not Yamaha, yet they are the one providing the package.

Well, I agree with you dead-on here. There is too much happening behind the scenes that Rossi should make an extra effort to compliment them all and acknowledge the sacrifices they have made during the trying economic times, besides the men in his garage. Rossi's business acumen hangs heavy in doubt here; but again, I would guess it is atleast upto his management in Davide Brivio and others to deal with the menace of PR nuances.
 
That easy right? Laughable. Except this would be breach of contract, as Rossi is to have a full factory bike. So nice keeping that under wrap as I'm sure Rossi would be the first to notice. Keep in mind these guys can tell when something is clicked a millimeter, so getting a Tech3 spec bike might feel like hes riding a camel in a horse race.

............



Incidentally, thats' exactly how Rossi felt during the race, when he was a second slower than during practice. He said "We do not know why I was so slow, and I guess we never will". This actually says a lot about the war already being waged within Yamaha, since Valentino of course -- even if he "notices" -- cannot say anything directly against Yamaha, due to the usual rider behavior clauses present in any contract. It would cost him dearly.



His contract also says he will have a factory bike just like Lorenzo's, sure, -- unfortunately there are no ways to determine what Lorenzo's factory bike is or is not, beyond the paint scheme -- since no data are available (here Rossi's request to block all data exchange with the other side could turn out to have been his biggest mistake! An almost hilarious self-goal
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) and no tests or objective inspections to actually compare any of the Yamahas on the grid are contemplated.
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What is certain is, that having Rossi on the podium, or even winning, on the day of his divorce announcements, would have been as undesirable an event as one could imagine, for the Japanese. Which does not mean they actually did anything to prevent it, -- however I have a feeling now that the nice words have all been spent last Sunday after the race, and these remaining 8 races are going to be lived in a sour atmosphere of suspicion and resentment within Yamaha, especially in what is now (and maybe has been for some time) the "wrong" side of the garage.
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As much as I don't like it, if Yamaha don't release Rossi, they are making a smart commercial decision. There's no room for loyalty in business. Business is about money, protecting brands and gaining an advantage.

Well yes, that I'd like to call it the "art of war", which ideally happens between large companies, tactical statecraft and the like where individuals are barely affected, except of course when impacted by falling stock prices, compensation and all of that monetary talk.. but, this here is an exciting sport, something more apt to be called an addiction, where business ploys should only come second if not last! I'd welcome wholeheartedly Yamaha declaring war on the Ducati or the Honda on the track, but not on an individual, even if the individual happened to be the prima donna (??) of the motogp soap opera - Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo or any of our beloved aliens.
 
It is likely that Yamaha want something from Rossi in exchange for the permission to test at Valencia -- and that could be a gracious acceptance, on Rossi's part, of "rider #2 status" for the rest of the season. Failing that, no tests before January 1st.

It would make (business) sense...
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That easy right? Laughable. Except this would be breach of contract, as Rossi is to have a full factory bike. So nice keeping that under wrap as I'm sure Rossi would be the first to notice. Keep in mind these guys can tell when something is clicked a millimeter, so getting a Tech3 spec bike might feel like hes riding a camel in a horse race.



I'm not so sure about the Spies thing, as it seems the factory bikes have been much more reliable (I think this is the second or third issue Spies has had with Tech3 bike). Spies reported having a discrepancy on the front end during Czech race. Despite Babelfish's argument to the contrary, a satellite bike is still a reasonable difference than the full factory spec. Even if they say "Yamaha" on the side of both.



I never said Rossi would not have factory parts or race his current bike which would satisfy his contract.....I said if Yamaha wanted Spies on a factory bike, it could happen very easy.



I do agree Rossi would know if they put FIAT bodywork on Spies's bike.....and sent him out on the track.
 

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