Rossi on a Ducati, WHne will they win?

What I'm curious about is if Rossi and JB are trying to do a total makeover of the Duke. Not just do the best of what they've got, or try to adapt Rossis riding style to the bike, but instead make the bike into at more forgiving package that works better not just for Rossi but for the other riders as well.



It could be that they are making such drastic changes, on purpose, that what we saw this weekend was something we might expect for a few races until they've had the chance to do more laps and can find what the heck is so fcked up with the bike.



And if the end result will be a bike that's rideable for more than just one person the effort might be worth it (and no doubt Rossi will be labeled a development genius again)



Perhaps I'm Captain Obvious here, but I don't have the insight into what happens behind the scene in the paddock, like some people here seems to have, so I'm just guessing and would like to know what you think.





(I'm a Stoner fan, but have the highest respect for Rossi and JB and what they can accomplish)





(and I'm from Sweeeeeden so pardon my grammar/spelling )

Nah, the gravel is better then he can have an excuse, what has he got now hes making the Duke look like a

Torgo said:

What I'm curious about is if Rossi and JB are trying to do a total makeover of the Duke. Not just do the best of what they've got, or try to adapt Rossis riding style to the bike, but instead make the bike into at more forgiving package that works better not just for Rossi but for the other riders as well.

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I think you'll find the whole "Rossi is making the Duc. more rideable by everyone" theory has absolutely no basis other than it was another fairytale excuse made up by the Boppers. It makes no sense at all especially if Rossi himself is appearing to be a failure on the Ducati.

Scotty said:

oh here we go again, straight line speed advantage this advantage sholder injury not enough development by stoner on the ducati etc etc and what is the classic excuse for stoners success this year, oh the Honda has more power more speed better front end better gearbox what else?







We will see how Rossi's 2011 year pans out in comparison to Stoners 2010 year? I’ve already made a chart and it’s not looking good for Rossi from now to what Stoner has achieved in 2010, Rossi will have to do some deep searching on that Ducati to be even comparable to Stoner e.g. from now on he will have to be placed in the next 4 gp's 3rd, 3rd, 2nd & 3rd, let’s see?

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You sad little prick, get a girlfriend . Your chart doesn't mean .....

Goatboy said:

Well better that than in the gravel, which by my estimation is quite a lot further behind your teammate.

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I'm willing to accept that Rossi hasn't had a great year, but Scotty isn't willing to hear a bad word about Stoner. When Stoner was crashing so often last year, it's because he was trying harder .

Nino said:

I'm willing to accept that Rossi hasn't had a great year, but Scotty isn't willing to hear a bad word about Stoner. When Stoner was crashing so often last year, it's because he was trying harder

.

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Why is it funny that Stoner was trying harder? Both Rossi and Burgess have stated that Stoner rode the bike in a way that they will not duplicate, implying that he pushed too hard (and closer to the edge than Rossi thinks reasonable) for results. Personally I kind of like a racer that isn't willing to accept being gridfiller; most people don't show up to watch points racing.

Nino said:

I'm willing to accept that Rossi hasn't had a great year

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He hasn't, but then neither did Stoner last year.

Goatboy said:

He hasn't, but then neither did Stoner last year.

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Hey there - did you pick up my yellow sunglasses



I think Scotty, BM & some others would prefer to go to events with Casey riding round by himself - just resetting lap records. Ban Rossi, Simo, now Nicky, get Capi out as a senior citizen, disqualify Ducati for not listening to him......................................

Goatboy said:

He hasn't, but then neither did Stoner last year.

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...........or the year before that, or the year before that, or the year before that.





The Duck stopped being any good the minute it lost it's 30-odd kph advantage in straight line speed.



Was probably still a pile of .... to get around corners even back then, but it could make up the deficit on the straights so "It-sa not-a problem-o"...............caught them out ever since though.

And yet ........ folk are saying much more publicly that things are not good with Rossi and Duc? Why?





Also Stoner knew he was going from Duc. to Honda. I think he had given up until he realised ...... the only thing that goes on my CV are race wins and WC's. Running around at the middle of the pack ......... well who remembers them?



Stoner is already up their above schwantz and Rainey and Surtees etc. ....... had he just been plodding round for 5th's ......



He's there to win ....... not just get paid.

no idea with that one.......... I have never seen a rider look so dejected in pre season testing before though, Rossi or not.



Must have been a bit of a shock to find out just how crapy that bike was !!!



He seemed a bit more chipper after a spin on the 2012 bike.........but time will tell.



maybe that rumor is media beat up ?.............don't know.

Don't see how the 2012 bike can be any good if they can't even get a new chassis with more 'side' flex in it, until 2012!



Seems like more power would make the current chassis shittier, and I think Rossi wanting a 'softer' power spread pretty much confirms this!



Go ahead and spin some more .... Rossi.

BHarvey said:

Don't see how the 2012 bike can be any good if they can't even get a new chassis with more 'side' flex in it, until 2012!



Seems like more power would make the current chassis shittier, and I think Rossi wanting a 'softer' power spread pretty much confirms this!



Go ahead and spin some more .... Rossi.

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The problem is that they can't change the chassis to accept all the new 2012 parts because it's designed around the engine and you only get 6 engines so mounting points for a new chassis and rear linkages is a problem when you can't put them on due to them using the engine itself as a mounting point. I mentioned the 2012 bike having a different chassis/engine in the testing thread when Kesh and Mental said Ducati where cheating and testing this years bike, and this is why they were wrong, you can't just slap new parts on the Duc without changing the engine. The entire engine case/block would have to be redesigned to accept the parts that the bike needs because it's a mounting part(part of the chassis). I think this is why they have to wait for mugello, they have to go through the currently sealed engines before they can even think about mounting new parts. It sucks that they have to suffer but it is their design and in the future I'm sure the engine will be designed with this in mind. So far the 2012 bike is designed around the current bikes front end as confirmed by Rossi recently, with them having to wait so long to do any updates because of the engine rules, this year is truly all about testing for next year. It would be nice if they could petition Dorna to change the engine as long as they can prove only the outside would be changed but I guess Rossi doesn't have enough pull to get this done or maybe he has already used his allotment of advantages for the year. This is probably the same reason they went chasing suspension problems when Casey had problems with the Duc, making a new engine case with different chassis mounting points has to be ridiculously expensive and time consuming, not to mention the gamble of what if it doesn't work.

Nino said:

You mean the year when the Ducati had significantly more straight-line speed than the rest of the field?

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I will give credit to which ever rider deserves it and rossi deserves a lot, but it gets a bit old when his fans constantly use the above as the only reason stoner won a championship.



Its as if you guys forget all the times rossi had the best bike on the grid?



The season that comes to mind is 2002, when he was one of the only honda riders to be given the new 4-stroke, after he won the championship a few more new bikes suddenly appeared and his 7 race winning streak came to a very sudden stop.

Well said Baffy and Hawk. but to BH.....



Ummmm.....the 2012 bike is a whole new bike......you know, chasis, engine capacity and all. ( wasn't the old title winning 990 a different bike to the 800 ??.....hmmmmmm....gee)



Ummm, why waste more time developing .... for a bike that has been a handful since day one (for any rider that has been on it......one handled it better than everyone else, but it was a ....... handful none the less !!), and will be irrelevant at the end of this year ?



JB seems to be concetrating on spending the time and money on the bike that will be valid from next year on.



Or are you now going to start calling JB names as well...............I dare you.



Had alot of world champions under him,.....and made alot of bikes go better.........or was that just him being lucky, and the riders did it all for him ?



Ummmm...........didn't Stoner also say the power came in too hard ............problems with the traction control being able to handle/soften the delivery ?





Ummmmmmmmm.........I hope that Duck make a bike that anyone can ride well.........wouldn't it be good to see Hayden on a decent bike ?





I keep saying over and ....... over............I AM NOT A ROSSI FAN.





I just hope that another manufacturer gets their .... together, so that it more than a one horse race and we get some top, balls out racing.......this processional .... is rather boring. ( I also subscribe to the point of view that the Honda is not much different to last years bike, and it is the rider making the difference.......but guess what,.......I still think the riders sookiness sucks arse)



At the moment, I am enjoying 125's and Moto2 more........sure, Bradl is dominant.......but at least the machinery is relatively close, and we get some top races, with the riders ability being the determining factor.



Yes, I know the chasis on Bradl's bike would appear to be better........but wasn't that a huge punt to take when signing on at the start of the season............and it's not that much better. Blokes are still right there with him.......till they crash, or burn up tyres....or whatever.



All I would like to see is the same thing happening in the premier class.



And the best shot Duck has, is having JB on board.

Baffy said:

I will give credit to which ever rider deserves it and rossi deserves a lot, but it gets a bit old when his fans constantly use the above as the only reason stoner won a championship.



Its as if you guys forget all the times rossi had the best bike on the grid?



The season that comes to mind is 2002, when he was one of the only honda riders to be given the new 4-stroke, after he won the championship a few more new bikes suddenly appeared and his 7 race winning streak came to a very sudden stop.

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Stop ruining things with facts!!!, you won't be very welcome here!







Welcome

Thanks for the welcome Barry, I have been reading the site for a while before i joined, and i had a feeling facts might hurt some feelings



Gassit has hit the nail on the head, anyone who thinks the 2012 Duc wont be significantly better than the current bike hasn't been paying attention to the GP's for a a while. Even with an un-cooperative manufacturer Burgess has managed to turn every bike he has worked with into a title winning bike.



Even when honda refused to let someone else make the breaks / disks for there 500cc machines in the late 80's early 90's Burgess and Mick managed to turn the bike into something a good rider could ride fast.



And to say that because Rossi is placing low in the field means he cant develop a bike i also find misguided, Rossi will be pushing the bike to where he feels comfortable, (which in some instances is further than Stoner did last year) this will provide a huge amount of feedback as to what NOT to do to next years bike.



With an engineer like Burgess what makes the bike bad is plenty for him to start building / developing a bike that will do what he and Rossi want for next year.

I agree about Burgess, however what worries me with Ducati is that they may well go ahead and produce a 2012 machine and not "really" let Burgess and co.get hold of it until post 2011 .......... which in this day ad age will be too late.



2012 is a world away though ..... lets hope they all get there at this stage.

BarryMachine said:

I agree about Burgess, however what worries me with Ducati is that they may well go ahead and produce a 2012 machine and not "really" let Burgess and co.get hold of it until post 2011 .......... which in this day ad age will be too late.



2012 is a world away though ..... lets hope they all get there at this stage.

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I agree hopefully they listen to what he wants.



In saying that the original 990 duc was not a bad bike (at least more than 1 person won a race on it) there are a lot more rules now... fuel etc.. but hopefully some of the characteristics like the ability to turn shine through with the 2012 bike.



Personally i think for rossi to win this season he is going to have to put in the ride of his career or pray they find a way to nullify the fact the chassie is ..... At some races his pace is similar and from memory sometimes better than stoner was last year, but every other bike has picked up there pace where the duc has stalled development wise.

BarryMachine said:

I agree about Burgess, however what worries me with Ducati is that they may well go ahead and produce a 2012 machine and not "really" let Burgess and co.get hold of it until post 2011 .......... which in this day ad age will be too late.



2012 is a world away though ..... lets hope they all get there at this stage.

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With JB saying his goal is to have all the Duc riders thank him after he's done, I think they're letting him have a major influence on this bike. They are supposedly at Mugello getting ready for another test now, just waiting on the weather.