Rossi on a Ducati, WHne will they win?

Well, from as much as we can tell...........The good Honda seats were full, the good Yamaha seats were full..........no-one in their right mind would get on the Suzi........



If Stoner wanted to achieve anything, he had to make that turd have some sort of shine !!



Now........the current turd is to be made redundant at seasons end, and Duck have stopped handing out any decent rags ( parts) with which to polish it ( read as concentrate on the new one........no point trying with this turds inherent problems)



So......do you take the same risks as Stoner had to take.............or do you wait to see if Duck listen to JB at all and make a much better Turd for next year ?





These comments are not trying to cast a bad light on Stoner..........mainly to draw attention to the fact that he was stuck in Turd corner. The minute he could get another decent factory ride.........he was outa-there !!!



Both riders have/are achieving pretty much the same results, on the pretty much unchanged turd.



Stoner had to risk life and limb on it, to



1) Try for a championship



2) Keep himself being seen as a top level rider by other, better teams..........



Kudos to him.



Rossi has the option of living in hope till next year, before he has to run the risk of riding a turd to possible injury........ I would do the same.



And if Stoner had stayed at Duck.......and JB came into his corner, he may well have been doing what Rossi is now.........

I'm not saying Rossi is right or wrong polishing his turd the way he is. I would say he is doing the smart thing for him by not going balls out & risking it all, potentially limiting any splashback from his turd, but it is not looking too good for Ducati, as they are going to wear all of the blame for Rossi's polishing skills when his turd still just looks like a pile of ..... This turd may be beyond polishing, but the next one he snaps off could come out glowing.



I'm not heaping .... on Rossi here either (or praising Stoner). Rossi is going about it methodically with JB, but some things are just beyond help. Version 2.0 next year will be a whole new ball game.

amen to that..........hard to type........one year old on my lap.



and she's just done a Ducati

Fred Gassit said:

Well, from as much as we can tell...........The good Honda seats were full, the good Yamaha seats were full..........no-one in their right mind would get on the Suzi........



If Stoner wanted to achieve anything, he had to make that turd have some sort of shine !!



Now........the current turd is to be made redundant at seasons end, and Duck have stopped handing out any decent rags ( parts) with which to polish it ( read as concentrate on the new one........no point trying with this turds inherent problems)



So......do you take the same risks as Stoner had to take.............or do you wait to see if Duck listen to JB at all and make a much better Turd for next year ?





These comments are not trying to cast a bad light on Stoner..........mainly to draw attention to the fact that he was stuck in Turd corner. The minute he could get another decent factory ride.........he was outa-there !!!



Both riders have/are achieving pretty much the same results, on the pretty much unchanged turd.



Stoner had to risk life and limb on it, to



1) Try for a championship



2) Keep himself being seen as a top level rider by other, better teams..........



Kudos to him.



Rossi has the option of living in hope till next year, before he has to run the risk of riding a turd to possible injury........ I would do the same.



And if Stoner had stayed at Duck.......and JB came into his corner, he may well have been doing what Rossi is now.........

Click to expand...

turd, turd, turd







You,re a breath of fresh air around here, Fred.









Not.









Perhaps I,m a snob, but every time I read a post of yours, I feel like I,m lying in a gutter, full of.....................you guessed it.........................turds.







Grab a dictionary, and check out the other gazillion words on offer. You,d be surprised at the choice...................





You could even use the word caecolith , just for a bit of variety.

So headmaster, do you have an opinion to venture on the topic, or just some red pen , grammtical corrections and snide comments to make ??



The world is made up of lots of different people, of varying degrees of intellect and ability............... I fall where I fall in those catagories, and do not feel the need to grab myself a bigger dias so as to keep up to a level you feel I should subscribe to.





Here you are, brain the size of a planet and they ask you to check up on lowly human gramtical issues and their failure to diversify, sentence to sentence, paragraph to paragraph with their use of the full and availible vocabulary in the english language.



Call that Job satisfaction? cause I don.........



Cheer up Marvin !!!



Perhaps a Babel fish will help ?









Don't be a...............

It is obvious that Casey Stoner, the fastest rider on planet Earth, would be faster than Valentino on the present Ducati in single fast laps and qualification. He wouldn't do much better on the race distance though (this is based on Ducati race times compared to last year). Rossi also may not be willing to risk a collar bone without any hopes of entering the title race, and is focusing on next year. He'll be unable to resist the temptation to put up a good fight with Casey or Lorenzo should the opportunity arise at some track, but that's all.



To those who hope (or are suspicious, ready to call foul play) that Ducati may transfer on the GP11 the chassis improvements tested on the GP12: relax, it is not possible. Why? Mainly because of the engine rule, since Ducati uses the engine as the main frame. They would have to design and cast new crankcases for the 800cc engine, which is unfeasible (4 or 5 engines have already been sealed).

For those who may not know, in the GP12 the engine is still 90° V but has been tilted back, and provides different links to the rear shock absorber. The swingarm and front subframe are different and (so far) of a different material, aluminum.

Fred, try to be inspirational.



Give me joy when I read your posts



Thats not too hard is it?

J4rn0 said:

It is obvious that Casey Stoner, the fastest rider on planet Earth, would be faster than Valentino on the present Ducati in single fast laps and qualification. He wouldn't do much better on the race distance though (this is based on Ducati race times compared to last year). Rossi also may not be willing to risk a collar bone without any hopes of entering the title race, and is focusing on next year. He'll be unable to resist the temptation to put up a good fight with Casey or Lorenzo should the opportunity arise at some track, but that's all.



To those who hope (or are suspicious, ready to call foul play) that Ducati may transfer on the GP11 the chassis improvements tested on the GP12: relax, it is not possible. Why? Mainly because of the engine rule, since Ducati uses the engine as the main frame. They would have to design and cast new crankcases for the 800cc engine, which is unfeasible (4 or 5 engines have already been sealed).

For those who may not know, in the GP12 the engine is still 90° V but has been tilted back, and provides different links to the rear shock absorber. The swingarm and front subframe are different and (so far) of a different material, aluminum.

Click to expand...

Has anyone here actually suggested this?

double

J4rn0 said:

To those who hope (or are suspicious, ready to call foul play) that Ducati may transfer on the GP11 the chassis improvements tested on the GP12: relax, it is not possible. Why? Mainly because of the engine rule, since Ducati uses the engine as the main frame. They would have to design and cast new crankcases for the 800cc engine, which is unfeasible (4 or 5 engines have already been sealed).

For those who may not know, in the GP12 the engine is still 90° V but has been tilted back, and provides different links to the rear shock absorber. The swingarm and front subframe are different and (so far) of a different material, aluminum.

Click to expand...

They can if they like anyway as far as I am concerned.



I hope sticking with the current "L" 4 is not a mistake, but I guess changing the position of the engine may address the issues reputedly caused by its dimensions. Jibes at talpa aside, it gives me no pleasure to see valentino in 4th or 5th rather than at the pointy end as he should be, and as a ducati (but not marlboro ) fan long before casey stoner's advent I would like to see them competitive too, both for their sake and the sake of motogp racing in general.

Some have hinted that Ducati are being inept at not fixing their current machine. His point is valid in that regard.



I find the "who's better, who's best" thing tiring sometimes.





He is right that there is little that can be done with the current 800, due to the engine being an major component of the chasis, and the engines being sealed before the start of the season. I would think at the time of the engines being sealed, that JB and co were still trying to get their heads around the problem, or that most of the components were already fabricated and destined to be part of this seasons machine from late testing last season............as is the case with the 2012 bike at this present time.





They's walked into a trap, I tells ya !!!





In all seriousness though.............we won't see any of JB's ability and the results thereof until next season.





If he was/is given to such language, you can sometimes see the ".... !!'' expresion written on his face.............. what can the man do ?



His genius is already proven with other bikes...............this one must be a doozy if he can't get anything out of it's current incarnation.



Only add's to the ability shown by Stoner, Hayden and Rossi, as anyone else who's ridden it, couldn't...........

Fred Gassit said:

you mean the bike has not progressed.........no-one can polish a turd.Not even JB,....... or Stoner last season, or the one before that.



What has changed ? Not Stoner.........the Bike !!!



What has changed ? not Rossi...........the Bike !!!

Click to expand...

'au contraire mon frere' It has been proven that you CAN polish a turd.





http://youtu.be/yiJ9fy1qSFI



Those guys crack me up, they have some funny .... on that show

Baffy said:

I will give credit to which ever rider deserves it and rossi deserves a lot, but it gets a bit old when his fans constantly use the above as the only reason stoner won a championship.



Its as if you guys forget all the times rossi had the best bike on the grid?



The season that comes to mind is 2002, when he was one of the only honda riders to be given the new 4-stroke, after he won the championship a few more new bikes suddenly appeared and his 7 race winning streak came to a very sudden stop.

Click to expand...

Didn't Tohru Ukawa also have a 990 at the same time ?

J4rn0 said:

To those who hope (or are suspicious, ready to call foul play) that Ducati may transfer on the GP11 the chassis improvements tested on the GP12: relax, it is not possible. Why? Mainly because of the engine rule, since Ducati uses the engine as the main frame. They would have to design and cast new crankcases for the 800cc engine, which is unfeasible (4 or 5 engines have already been sealed).

Click to expand...

I had seen this elsewhere but not thought through the implications, one of which is that there is quite a good explanation if stoner's claim that they gave him nothing new once the season started is true; basically with the engine restriction rule they can't even if they want to. This would also appear to be another reason to question ducati's design philosophy, unless the carbon fibre/integral engine is giving them great advantages otherwise, which does not seem to be the case thus far.

In more ways than one, it does not appear to be a very flexible design.

chopperman said:

Didn't Tohru Ukawa also have a 990 at the same time ?

Click to expand...

Yes he did

Yes tohru did have one, but thats not the point.



The point i was making was that rossi fans have severe double standards, they say stoner only won in 07 because of the Duc.



Yet same situation has occurred during Rossis' career, but they fail to take note of this.



In both instances even if the bike was the greatest thing out there, 1 rider dominated on the bike, whilst team mates didnt do so well.

This is true of Rossi, as you so rightly point out.



...........until he threw a leg over the Yamaha. Then that argument goes out the window.



The mighty flapping Duck doesn't count, 'cause after 07.........no-one could ride the bloody thing.



Both top level riders performances on that pig nearly mirror each other.



Only, as I have pointed out earlier.....Stoner was Stuck on it for the duration, and had to do something with it.



The second he could get a better ride.......he jumped. And who could blame him.



............Rossi has the chance ( that Stoner did not) to live in hope until next year.



He would be a fool to risk hurting himself further in a vain attempt at maintaining pride this year.



As for Hayden out placing him............. well, Rossi looks as down in the mouth as a child who has just been told Santa doesn't exist...........I don't think he likes the position he is in.......but bugger all can be done with the bike, and when it tries it's best to throw you at every given opportunity.......The injuries he is carrying already, and the chance of re-inflicting ( or suffering new ones) must be right at the front of his thoughts.



Better to live and fight again another day.



All this is pure speculation from my part.

michaelm said:

I had seen this elsewhere but not thought through the implications, one of which is that there is quite a good explanation if stoner's claim that they gave him nothing new once the season started is true; basically with the engine restriction rule they can't even if they want to. This would also appear to be another reason to question ducati's design philosophy, unless the carbon fibre/integral engine is giving them great advantages otherwise, which does not seem to be the case thus far.

Click to expand...

The engine rule has de facto eliminated Ducati's ability to make structural changes to their "chassis" in the course of a season, other than working on the flex of the CF. A major change in the GP12 is at the rear, where they have binned their long-standing "full floating" suspension design. In the GP12, the shock absorber now connects to the rear sub-frame, just as in deltabox design where it connects to the rear end of the frame. This makes it (finally) possible for Ducati to use an inverted swingarm, that moves the point of torsion lower. The new rear suspension will also behave more like the rear suspension of a deltabox, making it easier to set it up for JB and crew. But they'll have to wait for next year.... Sucks.

J4rn0 said:

In the GP12, the shock absorber now connects to the rear sub-frame, just as in deltabox design where it connects to the rear end of the frame. This makes it (finally) possible for Ducati to use an inverted swingarm, that moves the point of torsion lower. The new rear suspension will also behave more like the rear suspension of a deltabox, making it easier to set it up for JB and crew.

Click to expand...

Ahhhhh !!!............that should make a big difference !



Thanks for the Info !