Rossi: "I paid too much for last year"

povol said:

Well no, Marquez obviously had the best pace as he set the races fastest lap on the last lap, passing and running off and leaving Ianonne in the process. Now, Ianonne's advantage in the straights had nothing to do with him beating Rossi for 3rd place. Rossi was in front of him on the last lap and lost that position in the esses, not a straight. So Rossi finished 4th with 3rd best pace, not unusual at all.

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Did i dispute Marquez having the best pace?

Of course Iannone having advantage on straights was a big factor, Marquez' multiple mysterious pace fluctuations during the race that allowed Iannone to catch up with Marquez and Rossi allowed him to then get ahead of Rossi into T1, making it harder to catch Lorenzo.

Actually Iannone was 2nd starting the last lap, Rossi 4th. Rossi caught up with him and tried to pass into MG but ran wide.

GeniusAtTwerk said:

Did i dispute Marquez having the best pace?

Of course Iannone having advantage on straights was a big factor, Marquez' multiple mysterious pace fluctuations during the race that allowed Iannone to catch up with Marquez and Rossi allowed him to then get ahead of Rossi into T1, making it harder to catch Lorenzo.

Actually Iannone was 2nd starting the last lap, Rossi 4th. Rossi caught up with him and tried to pass into MG but ran wide.

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What an absolute truckload of crap. Take your ........ elsewhere. You saw what rossi did and it was gutless and disgusting .

GeniusAtTwerk said:

Did i dispute Marquez having the best pace?

Of course Iannone having advantage on straights was a big factor, Marquez' multiple mysterious pace fluctuations during the race that allowed Iannone to catch up with Marquez and Rossi allowed him to then get ahead of Rossi into T1, making it harder to catch Lorenzo.

Actually Iannone was 2nd starting the last lap, Rossi 4th. Rossi caught up with him and tried to pass into MG but ran wide.

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Yes, it is known as motor racing, you try to beat your opponent using whatever advantages you have as Valentino himself is renowned for doing, and some rather more expert than you have even defined it as the art of winning at the slowest possible speed.

MM won the race, end of story, no more can be required of him as I said. He had dnfed 6 of the last 18 races starting with PI 2014, had not scored any points at PI in the premier class prior to 2015, and employing a similar strategy to PI 2015 has been very successful for him since, with no dnfs (obviously not counting him being feloniously eliminated at Sepang 2015), 1 finish outside the top 5 iirc, and a comfortable lead in the 2016 title race. He undoubtedly did ride quite stupidly for most of the 2015 season, but this did not oblige him to continue doing so in the mind of anyone except Rossi and those most blind among his adherents.

What is even more amusing is you posting a quote about Iannone and MM being on Jorge's payroll as proof you suspected shenanigans during the race. Apart from Rossi himself later saying Iannone had raced exactly as he should have, all this proves is that you are a subscriber to something even more wacky than the PI 2015 conspiracy theory, the late season 2015 "Rossi Rules" conveniently devised by him to suit his circumstances then ie that only Lorenzo was allowed to race him, despite Rossi's points lead having been gained with everyone racing Jorge of course.

Just in case your mathematical skills are on the same level as your reading skills, 19, the number of points Rossi forwent by not being able to beat Pedrosa and/or Iannone in the last 5 races of the 2015 season is a larger number than 5.

shaunna said:

I'm quite a big Rossi fan but really like what you said as I agree. I don't get upset or angry at all when he doesn't win as at the end of the day, like you said - he has 9 world championships not to mention VR46 academy and everything else he has going on. I actually felt bad for the level of stupid hate Marquez received from over the top Rossi fans:spin:

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If only he had a hot wife and kid at home his life would be perfect and everyone in OZ would love him too

GeniusAtTwerk said:

I pointed out already that there was no conspiracy, if something happened it was all Marquez and nobody else.

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Thnx for clearing this up. So Iannone is cleared of any wrongdoing then, despite him doing, optics wise, the same as Marc at Phillip Island then?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

GeniusAtTwerk said:

Eh, care to provide evidence where Marquez specifically struggled on the dry at the start of races compared to the end, before PI.

If your points are about Qatar, Barcelona and Aragon, agree to disagree.

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He crashed out of 5 races in 2015 prior to PI, mostly by pushing to win when his bike was not really capable. Saving the banzai lap for the end of the race and/or settling for position if a win is not in prospect as he has done from PI 2015 on would seem rather smarter.

He caught Rossi by over a second in the last lap at Assen 2015 btw after not looking to have his pace all race, and if he can fake and then save the tank slapper he had at PI 2015 the rest of them really shouldn't bother turning up.

michaelm said:

What is even more amusing is you posting a quote about Iannone and MM being on Jorge's payroll as proof you suspected shenanigans during the race. Apart from Rossi himself later saying Iannone had raced exactly as he should have, all this proves is that you are a subscriber to something even more wacky than the PI 2015 conspiracy theory, the late season 2015 "Rossi Rules" conveniently devised by him to suit his circumstances then ie that only Lorenzo was allowed to race him, despite Rossi's points lead having been gained with everyone racing Jorge of course.

Just in case your mathematical skills are on the same level as your reading skills, 19, the number of points Rossi forwent by not being able to beat Pedrosa and/or Iannone in the last 5 races of the 2015 season is a larger number than 5.

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Everybody was allowed to fight Rossi at the end of 2015, for example I naturally didn't have a problem with Aragon. Not sure where you got that from.

I fail to see the relevance in your 2nd point. The difference between the expected finishing order in PI based on the pace of the riders compared to the actual results was well over 5 point advantage to Lorenzo as well.

Jumkie said:

Thnx for clearing this up. So Iannone is cleared of any wrongdoing then, despite him doing, optics wise, the same as Marc at Phillip Island then?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

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Except he didn't really do the same optics wise in PI, and definitely not in Sepang/Valencia. And it's a fair assumption to think Marquez would be more likely to do this against Rossi than Iannone, is it not?

Like I explained many times already, I didn't straight away conclude that Marquez was deliberate during the race, just thought that Lorenzo benefited from incredibly fortunate circumstances to be able to finish that race 2nd.

Interestingly Iannone also thought Marquez "played with them" apparently.

michaelm said:

He crashed out of 5 races in 2015 prior to PI, mostly by pushing to win when his bike was not really capable. Saving the banzai lap for the end of the race and/or settling for position if a win is not in prospect as he has done from PI 2015 on would seem rather smarter.

He caught Rossi by over a second in the last lap at Assen 2015 btw after not looking to have his pace all race, and if he can fake and then save the tank slapper he had at PI 2015 the rest of them really shouldn't bother turning up.

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One or two banzai laps in the end for the win doesn't seem as safe of a route as trying to be in front before that, if you have the best pace, settling for postition of course is. Starting slow, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up within one race resulting in you having to battle almost all the race doesn't seem the safest option either.

You're off about Assen, the gap was .426 at the start of the lap, so he caught by a bit under 4 tenths before the last chicane, hardly the same as being 1 second faster in the last lap despite having to pass Iannone twice and Lorenzo once. Also, I don't get how Marquez didn't look to have Rossis pace during that race, neither guy could separate each other at all at any point.

GeniusAtTwerk said:

Except he didn't really do the same optics wise in PI, and definitely not in Sepang/Valencia. And it's a fair assumption to think Marquez would be more likely to do this against Rossi than Iannone, is it not?

Like I explained many times already, I didn't straight away conclude that Marquez was deliberate during the race, just thought that Lorenzo benefited from incredibly fortunate circumstances to be able to finish that race 2nd.

Interestingly Iannone also thought Marquez "played with them" apparently.

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Ah I see. I guess Iannone DNFing out of Sepang and Valencia wasn't 'obvious' enough he was helping Lorenzo.

Ah yes, the Infamous Thurday Press Conference, where Iannone "agreed" with Rossi like a man would with a "knife to his throat". Since you bring up 'motives', Iannone had motive to go along with Rossi, especially considering Valentino's fans (you included given your real time indictment of him, oops) who were ready to eat the man's children for the crime of racing The Doctor at Phillip Island (you admit to questioning Iannone's integrity afterall). It only took the Doc a specific announcement that Iannone should be spared the onslaught of attacks on social media. Also consider Rossi didn’t cook up this cockamamie conspiracy on the fly, he showed up with doctored documents to show the Italian media how Marquez toyed with him...oh but not Iannone.

So Iannone, did Marquez play with Rossi? [Looks over nervously to the Gaffather] [clears throat] Ay, yes, he play with us.

That sounds legit.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

GeniusAtTwerk said:

Everybody was allowed to fight Rossi at the end of 2015, for example I naturally didn't have a problem with Aragon. Not sure where you got that from.

I fail to see the relevance in your 2nd point. The difference between the expected finishing order in PI based on the pace of the riders compared to the actual results was well over 5 point advantage to Lorenzo as well.

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My point was simple. Had he been good enough/fast enough to beat Pedrosa in 4 races and Iannone in another in the last 5 races of the season what MM did would have been irrelevant, so why are you blaming MM and not the others?

It is only rumour and innuendo, but at least as firmly based as anything you are raising, that Rossi approached both Pedrosa and Iannone to ask them why they were trying to beat him to the detriment of his championship hopes. The rumours gained sufficient traction for David Emmett (I believe you post on his forum) to report them and for Mick Doohan to refer to them.

We have just had a discussion about VR, and even more miraculously MM, preserving their tyres to finish on the podium in the most recent race, so why wasn't MM allowed to do this at PI, a track notoriously hard on tyres cf the 2013 race, and from which he had crashed out in 2014 attempting to win dominantly from the lead the whole race. Is it part of the rules that only Rossi is allowed to ride a tactical race? You have just spent several posts arguing that he was going to catch Lorenzo late in the PI and Sepang 2015 races. I think you will find Lorenzo had the fastest lap of the Sepang race btw.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

If only he had a hot wife and kid at home his life would be perfect and everyone in OZ would love him too

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Uccio usually looks hot...
Well, sweaty and greasy anyway...

GeniusAtTwerk said:

I personally feel Marquez running wide as soon as Lorenzo got close to him and proceeding to do a 2:02.0 leaving him far behind Lorenzo was helpful to Lorenzo more than anything.

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Of course it was, but you have yet to provide any evidence that it was deliberate.

Iannone helped Rossi by crashing out, oh wait, that was to help Lorenzo. Ok, ok, what about Petrucci? Did his detour into an alternate universe count as obvious "helping"?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

GeniusAtTwerk said:

Did i dispute Marquez having the best pace?

Of course Iannone having advantage on straights was a big factor, Marquez' multiple mysterious pace fluctuations during the race that allowed Iannone to catch up with Marquez and Rossi allowed him to then get ahead of Rossi into T1, making it harder to catch Lorenzo.

Actually Iannone was 2nd starting the last lap, Rossi 4th. Rossi caught up with him and tried to pass into MG but ran wide.

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Wrong,Wrong Wrong Rossi had passed Iannone for third in turn 6 and clearly led him headed into turns 7-8 [the fast esses] .Iannone passed him in the fast esses and held that lead till Rossi passed him at turn 10 but ran wide allowing Iannone back through. Horsepower had nothing to do with either.

Jumkie said:

Iannone helped Rossi by crashing out, oh wait, that was to help Lorenzo. Ok, ok, what about Petrucci? Did his detour into an alternate universe count as obvious "helping"?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

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As per the conspiracy folks, AI should be fighting with Lorenzo, to help Rossi. Since, Lorenzo was untouchable with his monstrous race pace in valencia and AI cannot fight with Rossi, he took a safe passage in the valencia gravel trap [emoji14]

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ananthakannan said:

As per the conspiracy folks, AI should be fighting with Lorenzo, to help Rossi. Since, Lorenzo was untouchable with his monstrous race pace in valencia and AI cannot fight with Rossi, he took a safe passage in the valencia gravel trap [emoji14]

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

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And before his body quit tumbling, Nick Harris i believe it was, screamed, Ianonne's gone down, that moves Rossi up ANOTHER spot.

GeniusAtTwerk said:

One or two banzai laps in the end for the win doesn't seem as safe of a route as trying to be in front before that, if you have the best pace, settling for postition of course is. Starting slow, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up within one race resulting in you having to battle almost all the race doesn't seem the safest option either.

You're off about Assen, the gap was .426 at the start of the lap, so he caught by a bit under 4 tenths before the last chicane, hardly the same as being 1 second faster in the last lap despite having to pass Iannone twice and Lorenzo once. Also, I don't get how Marquez didn't look to have Rossis pace during that race, neither guy could separate each other at all at any point.

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Is this really the best you got? Marquez screwed Rossi by speeding up and slowing down? And Rossi "the master" racer as Nick Harris compulsively repeats ad neusium was at a loss to deal with this new mastermind tactic? Speeding up and slowing down. You know what that is, it's called controlling the pace. Of the race, to suit yourself. A rider doesn't control to pace of the race to suit their rivals, which appears to be what you are suggesting Marquez should have done.

We witnessed 4 straight races with Lorenzo leading every single lap. In the present day and age this gets dismissed but to me with the level of competition and the knowledge tires didn't particularly suit him, if JLo had his way they would be much softer construction, he still won those races in a way Rossi never has. Rossi has never been a great front runner, controlling the pace, at least it's not what he's known for. He's known for sitting behind leaders and conserving his tires. At PI he clearly didnt set the pace, either wouldn't or couldn't, makes no difference. To me he wanted to sit on Marquez ... and use him to get a tow up to Lorenzo, because just like in the other 4 straight races he didn't have the pace to do it himself. If Marquez is so clever he then decided to "speed up and slow down" to counteract the masters tactic then good for him. I applaud it actually.

I raised an eyebrow in that interview where Rossi mentioned the rivalry with Biaggi was 'better'. Yeah better for him. In fact it's always been better for Rossi to encourage hate with rivals. We have in the list Biaggi, Gibbernau, Stoner, Lorenzo, and now Marquez. It's very consistent, with one common denominator, and it's obvious to me the hate is a tactic for not just him but his mighty yellow fa club to put extra pressure on his rivals. If with Marquez he's finally met his match, if even as you think Marquez deliberately denied Rossi the championship, then so what? Karmas a ..... baby.

Marquez deliberately denied Rossi the championship, and Marquez got the boot .

Jumkie said:

Also consider Rossi didn’t cook up this cockamamie conspiracy on the fly, he showed up with doctored documents to show the Italian media how Marquez toyed with him...oh but not Iannone.

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What documents were those?