Isn't a Machiavellian strategy suppose to be, not stupid? Because I would say hanging back to battle for 3rd when your title rival is 2nd is pretty stupid, especially when you were able to match him in the previous lap despite making a pass and running wide 2 more times.
Isn't a Machiavellian strategy suppose to be, not stupid? Because I would say hanging back to battle for 3rd when your title rival is 2nd is pretty stupid, especially when you were able to match him in the previous lap despite making a pass and running wide 2 more times.
Again, you could try actually reading. What I said was that elapsed time for the whole race is what counts, to which the first 3 Laps count as much as the last 3, although if you need to beat someone getting and staying in front of them would seem to be not a bad tactic, and one which appears to have worked fairly well for Jorge Lorenzo anyway.
If we are to deal in the hypothetical how do you know what JL might have been able to pull out had he been challenged by Rossi rather than non-contenders anyway?
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Not exactly an indictment on Marquez considering you lumped Iannone in there too. Sounds like you were throwing stuff up hoping something would stick. Perhaps every time someone has passed Rossi they were out to get him? Did you post that Pedrosa was on Lorenzo's payroll during the Aragon race?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Stupid? The strategy I proposed Rossi employed actually worked! Did Rossi not get to hold on to 16 points? If Marquez's pace had stabilized, Rossi was looking a 4th. Or are you the only one allowed to make a projection about Rossi and Marc's true pace over the course of the race distance?
Taking MM out illegally several laps later was fairly unequivocally stupid I would have thought, unless he thought he was immune to penalties, which would again have been fairly stupid.
Yes, the only time he has ever pulled out a banzai lap in his premier class career was the last lap at PI 2015.
He is obviously much cleverer than Rossi as well, and to pretend to have early race problems with the balance of his bike for most of 2015, to the extent of crashing out of 6 races early to add verisimilitude , then running wide to let Valentino past early in the PI 2015 race prior to having a tank slapper on his own on the straight just so he could later manipulate the race by winning it to cheat Rossi of a championship leaves Machiavelli well and truly in the shade.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Our friend Twerk asserts that Lorenzo bribed Marc into toying with Rossi to 'help' him. Seems an odd bribe since Marc, being on Lorenzo's payroll, "helped" Jorge to lose the race and the points on offer. That's some mind-boggling logic. And a piss poor executed conspiracy I may add.
If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Well no, Marquez obviously had the best pace as he set the races fastest lap on the last lap, passing and running off and leaving Ianonne in the process. Now, Ianonne's advantage in the straights had nothing to do with him beating Rossi for 3rd place. Rossi was in front of him on the last lap and lost that position in the esses, not a straight. So Rossi finished 4th with 3rd best pace, not unusual at all.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Well for one I posted exactly that thought to an online forum in the middle of the PI race.Didn't some rider also tweet about that after the race, Zarco maybe? I don't remember.
Oh god, I thought we were done with the Rossi fanatics.
What you posted Mr Coyote was:
What Rossi said was this (in short):
Rossi: ?Marquez would prefer Lorenzo to win?
Hardly "The exact same thing" is it? You just had the hump that Marquez, Lorenzo and Iannone beat your god.
I don't think we'll ever be done with the Rossi fanatics,they're everywhere,at least they're easy to spot as they seem to have a penchants for the colour yellow and they tend to whine a lot.
Joined Jan 2016
198 Posts | 165+
Western Australia
I'm quite a big Rossi fan but really like what you said as I agree. I don't get upset or angry at all when he doesn't win as at the end of the day, like you said - he has 9 world championships not to mention VR46 academy and everything else he has going on. I actually felt bad for the level of stupid hate Marquez received from over the top Rossi fans:spin:
This is one of the reasons ordinary race fans with no rider preference such as myself don't like the guy,he could easily have nipped all that behaviour in the bud but instead he encouraged it.
I personally feel Marquez running wide as soon as Lorenzo got close to him and proceeding to do a 2:02.0 leaving him far behind Lorenzo was helpful to Lorenzo more than anything.
Obviously I don't know, because we never got to see what would've happened.
I acknowledged that during the same post and said you have to take my word on what I thought the next day after watching the race again.
You didn't answer my question.
I was the only one providing any evidence to my theory, you seem to suggest both that Marquez struggling mightily in laps 2-3.5 and losing over a second to both Lorenzo and Rossi was a representation of his honest pace, yet he would've been able to turn it around to beat Rossi, yet somehow not been able to beat Lorenzo, even though Rossi was starting to match Lorenzo despite having to pass Marquez and running wide multiple time.
Eh, care to provide evidence where Marquez specifically struggled on the dry at the start of races compared to the end, before PI.
If your points are about Qatar, Barcelona and Aragon, agree to disagree.
I pointed out already that there was no conspiracy, if something happened it was all Marquez and nobody else.
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