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Rossi does not attend award presentation

Jumkie said:
I think it was Povol who said Rossi had the power to win this title in his own hands. Not exactly earth shattering insight, but the point had to be made to boppers looking for excuses.

The PRE-event press conference should have been Rossi’s cue to get the pole for Sepang race TWO days later. Then get a blinding start and blistering race pace to win since, in his mind, Marquez was out to get him. Then, after winning and leading every lap at Sepang, Rossi could have got on pole at Valencia, got a blinding start and blistering pace, win the race and WIN the championship!

Since he "KNEW" Marquez was out to get him, then he should have stayed ahead of him by the formula in Grand Prix racing to do so.

J4rn0, Papapozza, Talpa, would you like to debate this?
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This is quite a remarkably flawed logic.

During a season, one might be faster in certain circuit and slower in others. In the end it's the sum of the performances that counts. Lorenzo was not the fastest in the first part, and Rossi had to 'earn' his points and no one raced against Lorenzo so that he could lose more points than he got.

Saying that in the last 3 races doesn't matter if MM slowed down Rossi because if he stayed ahead he would have won the title is quite stupid, because in a fair competition no one gets unfair advantages.

You might argue whether or not MM helped Lorenzo, but arguing that even if Lorenzo gets help from another pilot (who raced to slow down his main competitor and might have gifted the victory in Valencia) it's still a legitimate victory it's quite absurd, and I guess you might want to take some Sportmanship with Rossi.
lol
 
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sonnet said:
Except this is not what Rossi complained about. I'm not Rossi fan (actually I don't like him at all neither as a racer or like a person) and I'm glad he lost.
But that doesn't make so blind and biased to not understand what he was saying and what happened at Sepang.

Like in any race, if you are behind and you want win the race, you don't waste your tires on lap 5-6 when you're seconds away from the leading group.
If MM wanted to win the races he wouldn't have battled for the position on the lap 5-6 , because it doesn't make sense at all.

If MM had a faster pace than Rossi then Rossi wouldn't have passed him but rather followed along (since it was in his interest to catch up with the leading group). Since Rossi passed him more than once, it is clear MM was having a slower pace than Rossi during those laps. So why MM tried repeatedly tried to pass Rossi rather than follow along (and eventually pass him in the final laps if they weren't have been able to catch up with the leading group)?
Other than the logic above, the delay they accumulated in those laps confirms that.

Anyone who follows the races understood what was going on. It was too much evident actually. Rossi didn't complain because MM tried to get ahead of him in the race. Rossi complained because MM so getting ahead of him in the first laps something that wouldn't benefit MM's race (indeed they were getting more and more delay from the lead), while just hurt Rossi's one.
Rossi didn't ask MM to not beat him, just to not race to me him lose which is a different thing and if you can't understand that then I'm not sure if there's an easier way to explain it.
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I'll play.

Ok, so Rossi didn't complain about Marquez "beating " him but rather he complained Marquez "racing" him with the effect to "slow/disturb" him? Have I framed your assertion correctly?


So you reason, Marquez was not faster because "Rossi passed him". This logic applies to Rossi too, Rossi was not faster because "Marquez passed him." The difference is YOU have interpreted Rossi being able to pass Marquez as "evidence " Marquez was slowing down Rossi. You have not made the opposite interpretation for the EXACT SAME EVIDENCE in reverse. Reminds me of Race Direction, where they just decided to believe Rossi and not believe Marquez on the 'same evidence'.

So here should have been Rossi’s solution for his belief, announced on THURSDAY for SUNDAY'S race.

Jumkie: Hola Rossi, how are you?


VR: Ah, Jumkie, chao, im berry berry good, thanks you for visiting me in motorhome my friend. Carmelo, move over a bit, let Jumkie sit here.


Jumkie: No worries Vale, so this Spanish (nods nicely to Carmelo) .... was ....... with you at Australia?


VR: Ah yes, it's berry berry clear, Lorenzo has new supporter.


Jumkie: Yeah, I hear you Dr. Doctor, the Spanish are ....., i hate them too homie, they ...... all of Latin America, well actually Columbus was Italian, but never mind. So Vale, here is my advice. Get the pole position on Friday. That will put you several feet ahead of that little ..... Marquez. Not to mention that snitch Lorenzo. Then you'll be ahead by real measurable tarmac, get the hole shot and pull away. You're the GOAT man! And don't let your guard down at Valencia either. The Yellow Army will be there to cheer you on, it's practically a home race for you! Get the pole, you'll be a few feet ahead again, so the hole shot will be yours. Pull away, don't let that ..... Pedrosa near you either, that midget has been good lately. You don't want a repeat of Aragon. And since you know what the Honda is capable of, well you know it comes good on the last lap, so get enough gap on all 3 of those dirty filthy cheating Spaniards. Get the win, get the title, get paid, get the ......., get your trophy and...dedicate the title to our homie, Sic RIP yo!
 
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Jumkie said:
I'll play.

Ok, so Rossi didn't complain about Marquez "beating " him but rather he complained Marquez "racing" him with the effect to "slow/disturb" him? Have I framed your assertion correctly?


So you reason, Marquez was not faster because "Rossi passed him". This logic applies to Rossi too, Rossi was not faster because "Marquez passed him." The difference is YOU have interpreted Rossi being able to pass Marquez as "evidence " Marquez was slowing down Rossi. You have not made the opposite interpretation for the EXACT SAME EVIDENCE in reverse. Reminds me of Race Direction, where they just decided to believe Rossi and not believe Marquez on the 'same evidence'.

So here should have been Rossi’s solution for his belief, announced on THURSDAY for SUNDAY'S race.

Jumkie: Hola Rossi, how are you?


VR: Ah, Jumkie, chao, im berry berry good, thanks you for visiting me in motorhome my friend. Carmelo, move over a bit, let Jumkie sit here.


Jumkie: No worries Vale, so this Spanish (nods nicely to Carmelo) .... was ....... with you at Australia?


VR: Ah yes, it's berry berry clear, Lorenzo has new supporter.


Jumkie: Yeah, I hear you Dr. Doctor, the Spanish are ....., i hate them too homie, they ...... all of Latin America, well actually Columbus was Italian, but never mind. So Vale, here is my advice. Get the pole position on Friday. That will put you several feet ahead of that little ..... Marquez. Not to mention that snitch Lorenzo. Then you'll be ahead by real measurable tarmac, get the hole shot and pull away. You're the GOAT man! And don't let your guard down at Valencia either. The Yellow Army will be there to cheer you on, it's practically a home race for you! Get the pole, you'll be a few feet ahead again, so the hole shot will be yours. Pull away, don't let that ..... Pedrosa near you either, that midget has been good lately. You don't want a repeat of Aragon. And since you know what the Honda is capable of, well you know it comes good on the last lap, so get enough gap on all 3 of those dirty filthy cheating Spaniards. Get the win, get the title, get paid, get the ......., get your trophy and...dedicate the title to our homie, Sic RIP yo!
Click to expand...

Look I'll try to explain once more. But then if you don't get it now, I'll doubt you ever will.

1-At Sepang on laps 4-6 Rossi had not intention of wasting his tires in battling with MM for the third position. His main goal on laps 4-6 was to try to reach Lorenzo. This is a fact. It can't be disputed and the fact that he got nervous and went wide, pretty proves it.

2- If Rossi had not intention of battling with MM on lap 4-6 he passed MM because evidently when MM was ahead he was slowing Rossi down (whether it was intentionally or not, this is proven not just by the logic I exposed, but by the chronometer too).

The only point that could be argued if whether MM was doing all that with the intention of making Rossi lose the championship or not.
So the question why MM was battling with Rossi on lap 4-6 for the third place, wasting his tires, when he couldn't (or didn't want to) leave Rossi behind?

Battling at the start of the race that much doesn't make any sense whether MM's intentions/goal were to finish 3rd or 1st.
When pilots can't leave their opponents behind (in the case one of the 2 is enough faster than the other one) in the first laps, they get along until the last 5-6 laps and then they give it all. And this is the same in every races. Never happened to see such battle in the first laps, and that's because it doesn't make sense.

Rossi didn't ask MM to finish behind him. He just wanted MM to make his own race.

In a fair competition no one gets unfair advantage or gifted point (in case MM intentionally didn't take the victory in Valencia and didn't protected Lorenzo from Pedrosa by choice). If you don't even get such obvious concept it will be hard to discuss.

The fact that you say: 'oh whatever, even if MM truly slowed Rossi down in s Sepang and gave away the victory to Lorenzo is still a legitimate victory from Lorenzo because if Rossi finished first he would have won the championship and blah blah blah" shows that you totally miss the concept of sportmanship and fair competition.
 
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To start with, everyone on the planet who watches Moto GP, including MM, knew that barring a dnf, Dani was going to win that race. MM also knew that he was having front end issues all weekend, especially in a certain corner, which happened to be the corner he almost ran off track and allowed Lorenzo to pass. I dont think any racer would give up a win on purpose just to .... with another rider. It just so happens, like it does numerous times a racing year, that these 2 bikes had similar pace at that point in the race. The Yamaha stronger in some sections, the Honda stronger in others. Now dont get me wrong, Marquez was more than happy to push Rossi to the point of a nervous breakdown after the attempted character assassination on Thursday, but he didnt lay back and get 2 seconds behind and purposely throw a race to do it. And as far as sportsmanship and fair competition, Rossi has made a living of unfair competition and very questionable sportsmanship
 
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"The truth of this situation, is that Rossi is a bittered and twisted man right now and he has acted in a most undignified manner. "
 
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sonnet said:
Look I'll try to explain once more. But then if you don't get it now, I'll doubt you ever will.

1-At Sepang on laps 4-6 Rossi had not intention of wasting his tires in battling with MM for the third position. His main goal on laps 4-6 was to try to reach Lorenzo. This is a fact. It can't be disputed and the fact that he got nervous and went wide, pretty proves it.

2- If Rossi had not intention of battling with MM on lap 4-6 he passed MM because evidently when MM was ahead he was slowing Rossi down (whether it was intentionally or not, this is proven not just by the logic I exposed, but by the chronometer too).

The only point that could be argued if whether MM was doing all that with the intention of making Rossi lose the championship or not.
So the question why MM was battling with Rossi on lap 4-6 for the third place, wasting his tires, when he couldn't (or didn't want to) leave Rossi behind?

Battling at the start of the race that much doesn't make any sense whether MM's intentions/goal were to finish 3rd or 1st.
When pilots can't leave their opponents behind (in the case one of the 2 is enough faster than the other one) in the first laps, they get along until the last 5-6 laps and then they give it all. And this is the same in every races. Never happened to see such battle in the first laps, and that's because it doesn't make sense.

Rossi didn't ask MM to finish behind him. He just wanted MM to make his own race.

In a fair competition no one gets unfair advantage or gifted point (in case MM intentionally didn't take the victory in Valencia and didn't protected Lorenzo from Pedrosa by choice). If you don't even get such obvious concept it will be hard to discuss.

The fact that you say: 'oh whatever, even if MM truly slowed Rossi down in s Sepang and gave away the victory to Lorenzo is still a legitimate victory from Lorenzo because if Rossi finished first he would have won the championship and blah blah blah" shows that you totally miss the concept of sportmanship and fair competition.
Click to expand...

I'm so sorry, could you run that by me again...I'm afraid I don't get it
 
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paparazzo said:
The hate on this site is over the top. What makes you such an expert in music? How many hit records do you have? Although I'm no fan and don't listen to his music I can appreciate his talent however small or big it may be, music is pretty subjective after all.
Click to expand...



Mate, get a grip

Given that Canada themselves whinge about him him and have had numerous public statements about 'loser gets Beiber' I guess you can't see the joke.

All good though, humour doesn't come across well in a forum
 
Jumkie said:
I'll play.

Ok, so Rossi didn't complain about Marquez "beating " him but rather he complained Marquez "racing" him with the effect to "slow/disturb" him? Have I framed your assertion correctly?


So you reason, Marquez was not faster because "Rossi passed him". This logic applies to Rossi too, Rossi was not faster because "Marquez passed him." The difference is YOU have interpreted Rossi being able to pass Marquez as "evidence " Marquez was slowing down Rossi. You have not made the opposite interpretation for the EXACT SAME EVIDENCE in reverse. Reminds me of Race Direction, where they just decided to believe Rossi and not believe Marquez on the 'same evidence'.

So here should have been Rossi’s solution for his belief, announced on THURSDAY for SUNDAY'S race.

Jumkie: Hola Rossi, how are you?


VR: Ah, Jumkie, chao, im berry berry good, thanks you for visiting me in motorhome my friend. Carmelo, move over a bit, let Jumkie sit here.


Jumkie: No worries Vale, so this Spanish (nods nicely to Carmelo) .... was ....... with you at Australia?


VR: Ah yes, it's berry berry clear, Lorenzo has new supporter.


Jumkie: Yeah, I hear you Dr. Doctor, the Spanish are ....., i hate them too homie, they ...... all of Latin America, well actually Columbus was Italian, but never mind. So Vale, here is my advice. Get the pole position on Friday. That will put you several feet ahead of that little ..... Marquez. Not to mention that snitch Lorenzo. Then you'll be ahead by real measurable tarmac, get the hole shot and pull away. You're the GOAT man! And don't let your guard down at Valencia either. The Yellow Army will be there to cheer you on, it's practically a home race for you! Get the pole, you'll be a few feet ahead again, so the hole shot will be yours. Pull away, don't let that ..... Pedrosa near you either, that midget has been good lately. You don't want a repeat of Aragon. And since you know what the Honda is capable of, well you know it comes good on the last lap, so get enough gap on all 3 of those dirty filthy cheating Spaniards. Get the win, get the title, get paid, get the ......., get your trophy and...dedicate the title to our homie, Sic RIP yo!
Click to expand...


Columbus was Spanish by the way, not Italian...
 
L
sonnet said:
This is quite a remarkably flawed logic.

During a season, one might be faster in certain circuit and slower in others. In the end it's the sum of the performances that counts. Lorenzo was not the fastest in the first part, and Rossi had to 'earn' his points and no one raced against Lorenzo so that he could lose more points than he got.

Saying that in the last 3 races doesn't matter if MM slowed down Rossi because if he stayed ahead he would have won the title is quite stupid, because in a fair competition no one gets unfair advantages.

You might argue whether or not MM helped Lorenzo, but arguing that even if Lorenzo gets help from another pilot (who raced to slow down his main competitor and might have gifted the victory in Valencia) it's still a legitimate victory it's quite absurd, and I guess you might want to take some Sportmanship with Rossi.
lol
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The Sepang race was after the PI race and Rossi's comments about that race., and it is now widely reported that he had questioned Dani Pedrosa about racing him at Aragon. Using the Sepang race as justification for claims made before it is the post hoc logical flaw. Why are claims by Rossi about how MM raced at PI and how hard he was trying to be believed above MM's version of events in any case?

Speaking of idiocy, everyone was racing Lorenzo and trying to take points from him in the early season; he had a few non-podium finishes if you recall.That Rossi, being in the lead, apparently wanted different standards than applied over the period he got his lead, by which only Lorenzo was allowed to race him at the end of the season, is the whole point. I guess it was also the purely malicious desire to thwart Valentino and steal points from him which motivated MM to stop crashing in the second half of the season. Perhaps he should have been required by RD to keep crashing every second race to make things"fair".

it was Valentino's deliberate choice to make an illegal (and perhaps not very "sporting") move in Sepang which led to him not being in a position to race the 3 front runners at Valencia and have the opportunity to personally influence the championship to a greater degree in that race, although since both you and he seem to be contending that MM was faster than him and deliberately holding him up , Jorge had already caught and passed him, and Dani was having one of his untouchable days this would likely have been with only a 4 point lead.
 
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"In a Jam Down Land ya
A whole heap of mix up and mix up
A whole heap a ben up, ben up,
We have fi straighten out,
Christopher Columbus is a damn blasted liar
Christopher Columbus is a damn blasted liar
Yes Jah"

 
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Arrabbiata1 said:
...An Italian in the pay roll of the Spanish offered vast riches to ignore his scruples and compromise his integrity.



View attachment 11574
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Vast riches I understand, but what is this "integrity" you speak of? And "scruples"? Is that some kind of bi-valve mollusc?

Is there a problem with Loris? I always thought he was a good guy.
 
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Cool Blue said:
Is there a problem with Loris? I always thought he was a good guy.
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Torpedoed Harada for the title. One of the most atrocious acts of racing ive seen that went unpunished. Perhaps why RD saw nothing particularly wrong with Rossi deliberately attempting essentially same. Naturally why Loris is employed to maintain GP safety. Good news for Rossi, if he ever needs a job with Dorna (assuming he isn't already a partner with the firm).
 
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Jumkie said:
Torpedoed Harada for the title. One of the most atrocious acts of racing ive seen that went unpunished. Perhaps why RD saw nothing particularly wrong with Rossi deliberately attempting essentially same. Naturally why Loris is employed to maintain GP safety. Good news for Rossi, if he ever needs a job with Dorna (assuming he isn't already a partner with the firm).
Click to expand...

To be fair to RD in the Capirossi v Harada incident Jums (and from memory only as my google finger is broken) but Capirossi was dq'd or penalised sufficiently such that he was not the WC

He fought it and the penalty was stood down on appeal

RD did everything they could in that instant but were let down by a higher authority ............ in a (IMO) joke decision
 
Gaz. I thought Capirossi was ahead on points, so when he torpedoed Harada, he was WC regardless of his DQ?
 

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