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Motogp: 2016 Round 3 Red Bull Grand Prix of The Americas

Hollywood said:
He is a MotoGP rider on a factory team bike, he is on the bike because he is expected to perform... and to his credit he has done well in practice on the tires... but better tires were not going to save him from crashing into Dovi last Sunday, he tried to force something that was not going to happen.
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I know matey, I was just wondering whether we could pass this off in any way on the different tyres and whether he thought he could carry out the move on the Bridgestones?
In truth I don't think so, but as I said I'm trying to see why he would do it and give him a break.
 
yamfan said:
Can we try and be a little kinder to the guy this season?
Could it possibly be because he's not fully acclimated to the new front tyres and is losing them under race conditions when he suffers a rush of blood to the head.
I'm just trying to cut the lad a bit of slack...
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I understand that maybe because of the unknowns of this season (tires, ecu etc) an argument could be made that a rider will make more mistakes. That's all fine and dandy. However, when those mistakes directly threaten the safety of other riders, this argument becomes null and void imo. These are the best riders on the planet, they should be expected to be able to handle their bikes as such.
 
Your words sound very much like the ones said against super sic prior to his sad passing.
Those words were mocked by certain Italian riders at the time along with many yellow clad fans, as Lorenzo and Dani suffered dnf crashes at super sic's hands.
Funnily enough the same Italian and his fans were full of mirth when Lorenzo was on the sharp end of some mightily aggressive moves from Marquez, one costing him a race iirc.
The same Italian threw an almighty tantrum when it was his turn to get a bit of Marquez. Funny how folks opinions change...
 
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Tha Ambassador said:
If a rider doesn't do well under stress resulting in dangerous moves on other riders, he has no place in motogp.
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I absolutely agree with your statement.

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In an effort not to rehash the Sepang Clash I'll (try to) keep this short:

I wasn't saying certain riders shouldn't be allowed to pull ultra risky moves thereby endangering other riders while others would be allowed, I was saying nobody should be pulling moves that endanger the lives of another rider. Now there will always be some level of risk because that's just how racing is, that's not what I'm arguing.

On the one hand if you never go for an open slot and try to pass another rider, you're effectively no longer a racer. On the other, there's a fine line between an aggressive pass and a dangerous pass. Without going back and watching the passes that you've put pictures of, I would reckon that Rossi is pulling aggressive passes, not dangerous ones (obviously putting aside the sepang incident - Rossi should never have resorted to that).

Joe's attempted pass on Dovi was something entirely different, there was no chance of making it stick or sitting up (relatively safely) Dovi to complete the pass. This was more of a pile drive straight into the side of Dovi.

I have no idea how or even if you could eliminate the "dangerous" attempts but allow the "aggressive" attempts to stay in motogp, but it is something I would like to see happen.
 
So you'd say the Suzuka side slam into Lorenzo which pushed him over to the grass isn't endangering Lorenzo then. It was 2010 when Lorenzo all but had the title sewn up.
By Rossi's recent claims of the "unwritten rule', he shouldn't have been messing with a rider who was a clear contender for the title.
Such was the severity of the move and several others he pulled in that race he was reprimanded by his own team. It was said he was deliberately trying to get Lorenzo injured so he couldn't continue the championship and claim the title, by his own team no less.
Rossi's reply was "so if I cannot race I may as well stay at home".
How his opinion changed last season...
This is a factual occurrence, it happened and no amount of boppers word twisting will change it and place Rossi in a position of innocence. The man is a ruthless, vicious and calculating animal when it comes to getting what he wants. The smiles, waves and jolly charisma is purely for the camera, make no mistake.
A great racer yes, fair sportsman, you must be joking.
 
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yamfan said:
So you'd say the Suzuka side slam into Lorenzo which pushed him over to the grass isn't endangering Lorenzo then. It was 2010 when Lorenzo all but had the title sewn up.
By Rossi's recent claims of the "unwritten rule', he shouldn't have been messing with a rider who was a clear contender for the title.
Such was the severity of the move and several others he pulled in that race he was reprimanded by his own team. It was said he was deliberately trying to get Lorenzo injured so he couldn't continue the championship and claim the title, by his own team no less.
Rossi's reply was "so if I cannot race I may as well stay at home".
How his opinion changed last season...
This is a factual occurrence, it happened and no amount of boppers word twisting will change it and place Rossi in a position of innocence. The man is a ruthless, vicious and calculating animal when it comes to getting what he wants. The smiles, waves and jolly charisma is purely for the camera, make no mistake.
A great racer yes, fair sportsman, you must be joking.
Click to expand...

I always laugh when people say Rossi is a great sportsman.

Nick Harris used to sell that .... like a tanking stock.
 
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Tha Ambassador said:
I wasn't saying certain riders shouldn't be allowed to pull ultra risky moves thereby endangering other riders while others would be allowed, I was saying nobody should be pulling moves that endanger the lives of another rider. Now there will always be some level of risk because that's just how racing is, that's not what I'm arguing.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, hence why I highlighted your excellent statement.

Tha Ambassador said:
If a rider doesn't do well under stress resulting in dangerous moves on other riders, he has no place in motogp.
Click to expand...


What you say below pertains to the act of 'racing'. And as you suggested, it's a fine line. Racing incidents are difficult to judge. However, I'm glad you are utterly against any act that is outside of racing that puts riders in danger. As you say, a dangerous move as a result of a rider not dealing with stress properly.


Tha Ambassador said:
On the one hand if you never go for an open slot and try to pass another rider, you're effectively no longer a racer. On the other, there's a fine line between an aggressive pass and a dangerous pass. Without going back and watching the passes that you've put pictures of, I would reckon that Rossi is pulling aggressive passes, not dangerous ones (obviously putting aside the sepang incident - Rossi should never have resorted to that).

Joe's attempted pass on Dovi was something entirely different, there was no chance of making it stick or sitting up (relatively safely) Dovi to complete the pass. This was more of a pile drive straight into the side of Dovi.

I have no idea how or even if you could eliminate the "dangerous" attempts but allow the "aggressive" attempts to stay in motogp, but it is something I would like to see happen.
Click to expand...

It's clear from your above statement that you have no tolerance for riders who do not deal with stress properly and respond by making dangerous moves that put their fellow competitors at risk of perilous injury. You have a high standard for 'racing' craft. I'm sure your standard for dangerous acts outside of race craft is even higher.

So clearly you're against riders ceasing to 'race' and deliberately aiming to eliminate a fellow competitor by an act of violence, using a motorcycle to put another rider in a dangerous situation. And furthermore, you believe that dangerous rider should be banned from MotoGP. I agree. Surely you were definitely calling for a tough sanction against Valentino Rossi last season. It must really bother you that Rossi has been allowed to compete. Because as you say, there is no place in MotoGP for riders who do not respond well to stress resulting in dangerous moves on other riders.


Tha Ambassador said:
If a rider doesn't do well under stress resulting in dangerous moves on other riders, he has no place in motogp.
Click to expand...
 
yamfan said:
So you'd say the Suzuka side slam into Lorenzo which pushed him over to the grass isn't endangering Lorenzo then. It was 2010 when Lorenzo all but had the title sewn up.
By Rossi's recent claims of the "unwritten rule', he shouldn't have been messing with a rider who was a clear contender for the title.
Such was the severity of the move and several others he pulled in that race he was reprimanded by his own team. It was said he was deliberately trying to get Lorenzo injured so he couldn't continue the championship and claim the title, by his own team no less.
Rossi's reply was "so if I cannot race I may as well stay at home".
How his opinion changed last season...
This is a factual occurrence, it happened and no amount of boppers word twisting will change it and place Rossi in a position of innocence. The man is a ruthless, vicious and calculating animal when it comes to getting what he wants. The smiles, waves and jolly charisma is purely for the camera, make no mistake.
A great racer yes, fair sportsman, you must be joking.
Click to expand...

Something is being confused here, let me explain:

Like I said in my previous post, I didn't go and watch those specific passes that you had posted pictures of. I merely took a guess as to them being aggressive instead of dangerous.

I should probably clarify that I only started watching motogp in 2012 so I've actually missed a lot of the back story that sets the tone of this issue. I do have a motogp videopass so I'm more than likely going to catch up on the previous seasons.

And to reiterate something I said previously, I don't think anybody should be pulling dangerous passes. I'm not naive to the point that I think Rossi doesn't pull any dirty tricks or dangerous passes ever, I know he did/does and I think it's stupid. Just like I think it was stupid how Iannone attempted that dangerous pass on Dovi.
 
Tha Ambassador said:
Something is being confused here, let me explain:



Like I said in my previous post, I didn't go and watch those specific passes that you had posted pictures of. I merely took a guess as to them being aggressive instead of dangerous.



I should probably clarify that I only started watching motogp in 2012 so I've actually missed a lot of the back story that sets the tone of this issue. I do have a motogp videopass so I'm more than likely going to catch up on the previous seasons.



And to reiterate something I said previously, I don't think anybody should be pulling dangerous passes. I'm not naive to the point that I think Rossi doesn't pull any dirty tricks or dangerous passes ever, I know he did/does and I think it's stupid. Just like I think it was stupid how Iannone attempted that dangerous pass on Dovi.
Click to expand...



What's worse, reckless riding that unintentionally puts a rider in danger, or a deliberate act INTENDED to do so. Rossi has done this on several occasions and got away with it with only minor punishment as he's always done it subtly until his latest one in Sepang. I suspect most would say the latter, this being the case Rossi has no place being near a MotoGP bike in your opinion as stated.
He likes to say fight and battle saying he likes good hard racing, because he uses his experience to come out on top. Wait until one of his "battles" sees him on the floor and we'll see what he says then. I bet it won't be accepted as a racing incident by him and the yellow army.
You can't defend the undefendable buddy...
 

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