Joined Nov 2015
872 Posts | 420+
Stratosphere
Joined Jan 2016
801 Posts | 401+
Uk
All the guys who get alien bike seats have earned them by showing the relevant amount of potential on lesser machines, whether that be in MotoGP, smaller classes or on superbikes.
Even Dani, who some folks love to have a dig at due to his lack of top level titles, showed amazing potential at the time he was given his ride. To be fair he's had some pretty ...... luck at times with injuries where he might've just got a title if fully fit.
Joined Nov 2015
872 Posts | 420+
Stratosphere
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
And thats the point Im making. There was never a doubt he was there to do anything but his maximum effort. I don't care that he is viewed as an ......... This is the problem with sports. People want to believe that athletes are their potential friends. Most of these guys are either outright aholes or seriously aloof.
Who cares. Whatever makes them tick.
I dont believe Stoner had the qualities of athletes like Mladin. He had the talent of the gods but the mentality of a jewish housewife
They are an interesting bunch at the top level, be that national or international.
I have been around international Rugby League players (not a widely known sport in US), golfers, cricketers, car racers, bike racers and funnily enough, musicians and there is an amazingly eclectic bunch of attitudes and personalities amongst them.
You use Mladin as an example but IMO only, Troy Bayliss was far more driven (using Aussie examples) but due to his outward personality he came across as more funloving and was therefore cut some slack (I believe that there is no greater driven motorcycle racer than Rossi for example). All of those that have made it to near the top are ridiculously driven people (same goes for business) and all use that drive differently but not all are aloof or ........ if approached at the right time (and as Neil Hodgson found, the start grid is not ways the right time).
On Bayliss, if you ever get the chance watch his performances at the TB classic - the guys is still fiercely competitive
If you refer to the mental drive type of qualities, well I agree but disagree as he would not have made it to GP's and then won world championships without that drive, the mongrel and the self centred attitude. But, I readily agree that he does not contain the drive to continue onwards when he has achieved that which he set out to do and thus, his disenchantment and subsequent retirement.
The fact he left does not mean that he has no mental toughness however as how many people would knock back a confirmed 20 million for one last season, and yet he did which to me shows resolve and mental toughness, just not in the area that you require or judge (no criticism there).
As for the mental toughness of a jewish house wife, well they do say that the wives rule the world and in some arenas, the Jewish faith is said to be extremely powerful (Hollywood, business) and thus I suppose that is a compliment in some aspect.
Point is JKD, a number of Australian athletes have left their sport well before the 'end date' of many other athletes because that athlete has reached their goals and in many cases has set themselves up financially. As often happens, when one achieves their goal or aims the 'drive' sometimes lessens or becomes more difficult to find/motivate and thus they are not as 'driven' as others within some competitive environments.
My opinion only but once the drive goes, then so should the athlete and this is what happened (and thankfully thus far there is no talk of full time comebacks - which I am against as for me once retired, stay retired)
I like how someone who spent hours in the gym getting his body to peak fitness, rode with crippling injuries and tried to ride through an illness which was destroying him physically isn't driven or competitive because he was over all the .... and didn't enjoy being in the MotoGP circus. What a ....... load of ..... Add to the fact Aussie athletes don't get to go home like other ones do in many sports which surely helped make his decision.
FFS JK, he showed exactly that approach when he was unstoppable for titles in 2007 and 2011, and for the 38 race wins. His problem was rather the reverse on the Ducati, he tried to win every race when the bike was not up to it a la MM in 2015. Valentino Rossi himself left Ducati shaking his head about how Stoner could ride that thing to race wins, saying on one occasion he had to be crazy to ride the bike the way he did. Nicky Hayden (himself) said on first encountering the 2008 Ducati, the bike Stoner rode for one of the years during which I assume you would assign him as having lacked mental toughness, words to the effect that whatever they had been paying Casey it wasn't enough. His courage or commitment are the last things which should be questioned given his performances on the Ducati, which is why many are taking exception to your remarks.
Again it was the reverse of what you say, he retired/quit when he no longer felt he had it in him. As I have said, the nonsensical attitude of many Rossi fans, unfortunately rather prominent among the current followers of the sport, the circus the sport had become under the Rossi/Dorna partnership, and his imo not especially paranoid belief that Dorna sought to prevent him winning world championships, and in particular from backing up title wins, were all contributors. He doesn't say it, but I believe the baby daughter also had something to do with it, perhaps understandable to you as a father, as his imo unfounded fears about Motegi 2011 demonstrated, and Marco Simoncelli, his partner a close friend of Casey's wife, actually died while he was in the process of winning the 2011 championship during his wife's pregnancy.
Bottom line he achieved enough and proved enough for his own satisfaction, and for that matter and less importantly the satisfaction of most of his fans. If that doesn't meet the standards of those like you who despised him when he was actually racing, tough, and his retirement was partly a .... you to such "fans" which I applaud. All this "GOAT" stuff is a stupid creeping Americanism imo anyway, much like Halloween. As a petrol head the only GOATS to which I am prepared to give countenance are the original Pontiac GTOs.
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Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
And in his case, cheat. How can you respect a sportsman who cheats over one you have felt is a "quitter?"
Exactly. if Stoner "Quitting" is viewed as such a negative, then Rossi's "quitting" Ducati must be as bad.
If this is so, which I for one wouldn't overly dispute, why exactly do you reserve particular disdain for the guy who brought an underdog marque in Ducati their only title win, and the only title win by an underdog marque in the last 15 years, who is a guy who never had the top factory equipment the likes of Rossi, MM and Pedrosa had (and I would agree with others not very arguably merited) both before and when they entered the premier class, and had to earn his factory premier class rides by performance on lesser equipment?.
I/we get that you don't like Stoner, which very much preceded his retirement btw, and you are obviously entirely entitled to do so. It is the arguments you present as to why everyone else should dislike him, and to the effect that anyone who does appreciate him is a deluded sycophant with which I take issue, finding them "highly illogical" so to speak, and which don't sustain your position as I and others have been pointing out to you on this thread.
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Joined Sep 2016
894 Posts | 557+
Queensland Australia
Stoner quit racing for his own reasons. He did retire/quit when he still had the ability to compete. I don't see why everyone is getting so upset when he is labelled a quitter, he did quit and there is nothing wrong with that.
Just because he quit racing that doesn't in any way detract from his ability or the enormity of his achievement on winning a championship on that Ducati.
Just because he quit racing that doesn't in any way detract from his ability or the enormity of his achievement on winning a championship on that Ducati.
Sure, the problem is JK calling him a 'quitter' as a perjorative term and claiming it does detract from his ability and achievements.
The distinction being made by JK's opponents is between Stoner retiring on his own terms when actually leading the championship as defending champion while still very much up to the competition, in fact with the endorsement from his employers of the offer of a 20 million per year contract in his back pocket, and 'quitting' as JK negatively construes his decision. If he had 'quit' in his second year at Ducati as Rossi did, during the 2008 season, JK's arguments might have more credibility.
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I come from an era where the word quit within the context it is being used here is derogatory - as in 'if a team mate quit trying I would be pissed and not want them on the field with me' type of derogatory.
Quitting is what occurs during an event where effort or involvement is still required whereas retirement is what occurs when you decide to leave the sport having completed the required commitments (all within the context of this discussion).
If you call someone a quitter it is not intended as a compliment, it is instead intended with derogatory tones as a question of fortitude, attitude and can question one's integrity.
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Joined Sep 2016
894 Posts | 557+
Queensland Australia
I do realise the negative implication of the word 'quitter', but he did quit or retire from racing (whichever word makes fans feel better using), call a spade a spade, no use getting into an argument based on a play on words.
I don't see Casey quitting or retiring from his racing career as a negative quality, not many riders with his ability would have the balls to make that call, he would have had enormous pressure from within that paddock, teams dangling money infront of him trying to change his mind. Good on him for putting his happiness first, sticking to his guns and not giving two ..... what haters (who will never have half of his ability) think. Let them call him whatever they want, I promise you he isn't losing any sleep over it.
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Thus why I use the word quitter rarely and retired more frequently as there should be nothing seen as negative about retiring from the chosen pursuit/sport.
I reserve quit/quitter for 'special' occasions.
Confirmed by HRC that he rejected a 20 million dollar offer which Honda confirmed as the largest single year contract or per season figure that they had offered to any rider or F1 driver.
This is further evidence to me that he made the right choice, at the right time and for the right reasons ................ there are many examples of athletes staying on for the seeming superannuation benefits only for those same athletes to fade to relative obscurity and be the subject of some ridicule (all which paints Rossi's 20+ years in the light in which it should be seen)
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
He'll regret quitiring. He didn't work long enough to maintain his rapper lifestyle. These athletes think getting paid a for a few years affords them a lifetime of living like Lil Wayne.
That waterfront mansion shows that Stoner is already making poor financial decisions. I wonder if thats his Sportfish on the dock. Thats another 1/2 to 3/4 million dollar hole in the water.
According to the Internet he's only worth 12 million and his vacation house is worth half of that.
Im taking back what I said about him having any jew in him
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Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
I dont think he had any pressure in fact I think its the opposite. Aussies seem to thrive on being matter of fact contrarian-a-holes.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
He also still has a number of active sponsors behind him, so it's not as if he isn't making a yearly income alone from what he already made over the course of his premier class career. Given we have no access to his financial statements, to say he is making poor financial decisions is ludicrous.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
I say Lil Wayne, you say Ludacris. Potato, Po tot o. Same decadent lifestyle
