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Mat Oxley on the Michelin tires

Angry Geos a ..... Im just testing his mental toughness.
I prefer to think of myself as a Stoner truther. I cant stand what I see to be blind idolatry of a perceived deity, and I honestly believe that most people that worship him only do so because of their hatred for Rossi. I think your reasons are valid,but just about everyone on this thread who has rebutted me, spends much of their time professing their hate for rossi

Show me once where I have said I hate Rossi?

I do not like the personality and have stated that from day 1, but will not demean his record.

If not falling into the 'blind idolatry of a perceived deity' that is the Rossi fan and if that makes me a hater in your eyes than so be it but pot kettle comes to mind.

The truth about Stoner is he left the sport on his terms which sadly so many people now days do not get to do as they are either sacked or retired by their respective teams, or worse they are forced out of their chosen sport by injury, or worse still they pay the ultimate price in their sport.

IMO only but to demean someone for choosing to leave a sport whilst they still had that choice is the issue that I cannot understand, no matter who writes it and about whom.

I hope one day to be able to retire on my terms and hope that people do not besmirch me that opportunity
 
Angry Geos a ..... Im just testing his mental toughness.
I prefer to think of myself as a Stoner truther. I cant stand what I see to be blind idolatry of a perceived deity, and I honestly believe that most people that worship him only do so because of their hatred for Rossi. I think your reasons are valid,but just about everyone on this thread who has rebutted me, spends much of their time professing their hate for rossi

Again it is a matter of persepective.

I would contend that the views of a few people on this forum don't make Rossi hatred the prevailing theme of the last 2 decades of GP bike racing, rather it has been mass hatred of any and all of his significant rivals, and in my case and I would venture to suggest the case of most others on here it was this hatred of riders we chose to support from the significant rabid element of Rossi's fanbase which formed the anti-Rossi sentiments rather than the reverse. I was never an out and out emotionally involved fan of Rossi's as I was of Gardner and Doohan (yes I do realise they are both Australian) and to a lesser extent the great American "golden era" riders and Nicky whom I followed in the AMA superbikes, but certainly considered him a great rider and didn't even mind his teenage antics when he actually was a teenager. You know Jumkie as I don't, but my reading of him is that his initial issue was with Nicky being denigrated rather than appreciated for winning the 2006 championship, just as mine was with Stoner's similar treatment in 2007.
 
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Right or wrong, dealing with all those things are part of competing in MotoGP unfortunately.

And he did not wish to put up with them, so left the sport but still finds himself the subject of ridicule for leaving .......... go figure.

I know that when I have been unhappy at workplaces I have sought other employment opportunities (hell, if I could have retired I would have) and on two occasions have left places of work without the next job lined up because those places of work were quite simply, unpleasant. Sure in some people's worlds I may be a quitter or a ....., but I made choices for my physical health (yes, it had suffered in one of these places severely - 6kg weight loss in 10 days), mental health and that of my family and am way better for it.

When a place of work becomes unpleasant, many people choose to leave and that is all that occurred in the case of Stoner ............. but it still pisses off so many people who at one time or other whinged and whined and wanted him to leave the sport when he was still racing ............ again, go figure.

He left the sport but still many who wanted him gone are unhappy .......
 
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Right or wrong, dealing with all those things are part of competing in MotoGP unfortunately.

His very point was that it was not always thus, and I certainly see no reason he was obliged to like what the sport had become.
 
And he did not wish to put up with them, so left the sport but still finds himself the subject of ridicule for leaving .......... go figure.

I know that when I have been unhappy at workplaces I have sought other employment opportunities (hell, if I could have retired I would have) and on two occasions have left places of work without the next job lined up because those places of work were quite simply, unpleasant. Sure in some people's worlds I may be a quitter or a ....., but I made choices for my physical health (yes, it had suffered in one of these places severely - 6kg weight loss in 10 days), mental health and that of my family and am way better for it.

When a place of work becomes unpleasant, many people choose to leave and that is all that occurred in the case of Stoner ............. but it still pisses off so many people who at one time or other whinged and whined and wanted him to leave the sport when he was still racing ............ again, go figure.

He left the sport but still many who wanted him gone are unhappy .......

I agree with you, your happiness and health have to come first. You don't get any medals for being miserable and persevering. I've worked in mining for a number of years, paticulary process plant design, commisioning and even operational management roles throughout the metallurgical coal industry. Ive had some great times and experienced many places and cultures that not many people get to. its taken me around the world and to some odd locations many don't venture to. Astrakhan Russia, Mongolia's Gobi Desert living in Yurts, China, Mozambique, South Africa and throughout Australia. Very lucrative contracts but also left many positions where either the conditions or location didn't suit me and I just wasn't enjoying myself. It took me quite a while to work out that money doesn't make you happy, it just helps distract you.

Casey left because he wasn't enjoying the experience of competing in a MotoGP championship, most likely all the crap he is obliged to do with media and promotions and paddock politics, all part of the gig its a complete package. Good on him for having the balls to do it, would not have been any easy decision for him to make and break to everyone. its easy for everyone to sit on the sidelines and throw stones and judge him, I'm sure he is happy and couldn't give a rats ... what others think. He doesn't owe anybody a thing. The only people he owes anything to is his parents, who fully supported his decision and would much rather have a happy son than a miserable champion.
 
I raced World Cup events in a sport from 1988-1997. Walked away after 9 years and during an absolute boom period. Left school in 1989 and got my first job in 98.

Never been back. I enjoyed it immensely the hated it with a passion. I tossed out most memorabilia and didn't go to the recent 30th anniversary event.

Got sick of living in a half dozen overweight excess baggage fee attracting bags.

Made me like Stoner a lot more when he pulled the pin.
 
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I raced World Cup events in a sport from 1988-1997. Walked away after 9 years and during an absolute boom period. Left school in 1989 and got my first job in 98.

Never been back. I enjoyed it immensely the hated it with a passion. I tossed out most memorabilia and didn't go to the recent 30th anniversary event.

Got sick of living in a half dozen overweight excess baggage fee attracting bags.

Made me like Stoner a lot more when he pulled the pin.

Quitter
 
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Funny thing is that if Stoner were still riding, you would still be whining about him.

Active or retired, you wouldn't ever be happy with anything he ever did.

As I said a few times here and other places JPS, there was a large number of people who wanted him gone from the sport as (in their eyes) his 'attitude' was not conducive to their enjoyment and they felt that much of what he said was 'disreputable to the sport', or quite simply they did not like him.

Some of these same people even suggested that if he didn't like the sport and what was expected of him, then he should leave.

Some suggested that if he did not like the treatment that the fans placed upon him, then he should leave.

So, he doesn't like it and leaves but then many of these same people whinge and whine about him supposedly quitting the sport and for some reason they feel cheated but he does as they suggested and yet they are not happy.

Sometimes I wonder whether these people just refuse to admit that they actually supported Stoner in their own way, but have painted the room and are now in the corner with no door or window to escape.
 
Funny thing is that if Stoner were still riding, you would still be whining about him.

Active or retired, you wouldn't ever be happy with anything he ever did.

I equally dislike Rossi yet you rarely hear me "whine" about him.
I enjoy going after boners because they use their blind fanaticism to combat blind fanaticism. They fail to see the irony.
They claim to be purists yet seem to be oblivious that the greatest rider we have ever seen, lines up to race every Sunday
 
I equally dislike Rossi yet you rarely hear me "whine" about him.
I enjoy going after boners because they use their blind fanaticism to combat blind fanaticism. They fail to see the irony.
They claim to be purists yet seem to be oblivious that the greatest rider we have ever seen, lines up to race every Sunday

But Stoner quit!???
 
I equally dislike Rossi yet you rarely hear me "whine" about him.
I enjoy going after boners because they use their blind fanaticism to combat blind fanaticism. They fail to see the irony.
They claim to be purists yet seem to be oblivious that the greatest rider we have ever seen, lines up to race every Sunday
Rossi is certainly up there but I think Eddie Lawson is in the conversation, and from what I have read perhaps Mike Hailwood even more so.

What you neglect is that pretty much with the sole exception of this forum, and even here only fairly recently, Rossi is also the most vastly appreciated/lionised rider in GP bike racing history, and Stoner one of the most vilified, so I am not sure what passes for a sense of proportion in your part of the world. Your whole argument in regard to Stoner is self-defeating anyway, since if you are correct that he is a quitter who massively under-achieved despite winning 38 premier class races and 2 premier class titles, 23 of those races and 1 of the titles on a Ducati against Rossi at his peak on a factory Yamaha when he had undisputed number 1 status with Yamaha, then you make a strong case for Stoner actually being the best rider ever.
 
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I equally dislike Rossi yet you rarely hear me "whine" about him.
I enjoy going after boners because they use their blind fanaticism to combat blind fanaticism. They fail to see the irony.
They claim to be purists yet seem to be oblivious that the greatest rider we have ever seen, lines up to race every Sunday

You honestly don't get it when it comes to Stoner.

You call him a quitter and everything else under the sun.

Yet you have never really understood why he left. He retired of his own free will. My personal feelings on this are absolutely irrelevant. Do I agree with his decision to retire at 27 years old? Nope. But it's not my life, and I can't profess to know the sort of pressure he was under at that level. Nor can I profess to know how much he grew tired of the whole ........ circus.

Casey lived a life that you and I have no idea about. We only know what is said in interviews. He first raced when he was 4 years old in 1989. He won his first motorcycle race when he was 6 years old in 1991. At the time of his retirement, he spent nearly a quarter of a century racing. You may think, so what? Big deal, so do how many other guys who are still racing. For a guy who only ever wanted to go racing from the time he was a kid, getting to the top isn't always what it is cracked up to be. Racing is only a small fraction of the job when you are at the highest level. If you're a guy who only wants to race, how much fun do you think press conferences, sponsor obligations, hostile fans, a hostile media, and a hostile administrator of the sport would be? I can bet you any amount of money, that had he received the sort of fawning adulation and soft coverage that Valentino Rossi receives, he'd still be racing. Instead, he went to work every day, treated like .... by the public, treated like .... by the sport's administrators, used to create ........ stories favoring VR, and so on. How much fun do you really think that would be? But then this is where you say, "He's getting paid and he should have known!" Money is great, but do you think that somehow makes it okay to be spit on? Or to have everything you do twisted into something else to drive a false narrative? How about having all of your accomplishments belittled by the world at large? It was the bike was the common refrain. It was the tires. It was everything else, but the rider when it came to Stoner. Meanwhile no one ever questioned the massive equipment advantages Rossi had. All of his accomplishments were seen as legit by the sporting public and the media at large.

If racing is all you ever cared about doing, that kind of treatment gets old.

Funny thing is, Stoner is not the only one to ever express the desire for, or to state they missed pure racing without all the ......... The late Ayrton Senna gave an interview in 1993 where he talked about these things, and who his greatest rival was. Much to the shock of many, it wasn't Alain Prost with whom he had spent the prior 5 seasons locked in a blood feud with.



Not everyone is wired the way guys like Rossi or Nicky Hayden are. Do you call Kevin Schwantz a quitter? He walked away when he could easily have kept going, he retired after 3 races in the 1995 season. By your, and others definitions, that is quitting, yet I don't see his name ever mentioned. Stoner at least finished out the 2012 season. Schwantz didn't even finish out the 1995 season! Yet the vitriol is exclusively for Stoner. At least be consistent if nothing else. The mental fortitude it takes to walk away knowing everyone is going to criticize you for it is remarkable...and when you consider how much money HRC was offering him to come back for 2013, it's even more remarkable.

He did what he wanted to do after 23 years of racing. It's his life.
 
Rossi is certainly up there but I think Eddie Lawson is in the conversation, and from what I have read perhaps Mike Hailwood even more so.

What you neglect is that pretty much with the sole exception of this forum, and even here only fairly recently, Rossi is also the most vastly appreciated/lionised rider in GP bike racing history, and Stoner one of the most vilified, so I am not sure what passes for a sense of proportion in your part of the world. Your whole argument in regard to Stoner is self-defeating anyway, since if you are correct that he is a quitter who massively under-achieved despite winning 38 premier class races and 2 premier class titles, 23 of those races and 1 of the titles on a Ducati against Rossi at his peak on a factory Yamaha when he had undisputed number 1 status with Yamaha, then you make a strong case for Stoner actually being the best rider ever.

The elephant in the room is invisible. This is my exact point. I was referring to Marquez and you didnt even adnowledge him. Jp is rushing to post photos of Stoner with his elbow down because god forbid we give MM credit for evolving styles.

He has already far surpassed what Stoner was able to do on the Honda. Why is Stoners second year on the Honda dismissed as not being a failure. It was his mental error that forced him to miss 5 races due to injury.
You know my thoughts on the Duc. He won in a transition year when Honda produced its least successful bike in the last 15-20 yrs.
 
You honestly don't get it when it comes to Stoner.

You call him a quitter and everything else under the sun.

Yet you have never really understood why he left. He retired of his own free will. My personal feelings on this are absolutely irrelevant. Do I agree with his decision to retire at 27 years old? Nope. But it's not my life, and I can't profess to know the sort of pressure he was under at that level. Nor can I profess to know how much he grew tired of the whole ........ circus.

Casey lived a life that you and I have no idea about. We only know what is said in interviews. He first raced when he was 4 years old in 1989. He won his first motorcycle race when he was 6 years old in 1991. At the time of his retirement, he spent nearly a quarter of a century racing. You may think, so what? Big deal, so do how many other guys who are still racing. For a guy who only ever wanted to go racing from the time he was a kid, getting to the top isn't always what it is cracked up to be. Racing is only a small fraction of the job when you are at the highest level. If you're a guy who only wants to race, how much fun do you think press conferences, sponsor obligations, hostile fans, a hostile media, and a hostile administrator of the sport would be? I can bet you any amount of money, that had he received the sort of fawning adulation and soft coverage that Valentino Rossi receives, he'd still be racing. Instead, he went to work every day, treated like .... by the public, treated like .... by the sport's administrators, used to create ........ stories favoring VR, and so on. How much fun do you really think that would be? But then this is where you say, "He's getting paid and he should have known!" Money is great, but do you think that somehow makes it okay to be spit on? Or to have everything you do twisted into something else to drive a false narrative? How about having all of your accomplishments belittled by the world at large? It was the bike was the common refrain. It was the tires. It was everything else, but the rider when it came to Stoner. Meanwhile no one ever questioned the massive equipment advantages Rossi had. All of his accomplishments were seen as legit by the sporting public and the media at large.

If racing is all you ever cared about doing, that kind of treatment gets old.

Funny thing is, Stoner is not the only one to ever express the desire for, or to state they missed pure racing without all the ......... The late Ayrton Senna gave an interview in 1993 where he talked about these things, and who his greatest rival was. Much to the shock of many, it wasn't Alain Prost with whom he had spent the prior 5 seasons locked in a blood feud with.



Not everyone is wired the way guys like Rossi or Nicky Hayden are. Do you call Kevin Schwantz a quitter? He walked away when he could easily have kept going, he retired after 3 races in the 1995 season. By your, and others definitions, that is quitting, yet I don't see his name ever mentioned. Stoner at least finished out the 2012 season. Schwantz didn't even finish out the 1995 season! Yet the vitriol is exclusively for Stoner. At least be consistent if nothing else. The mental fortitude it takes to walk away knowing everyone is going to criticize you for it is remarkable...and when you consider how much money HRC was offering him to come back for 2013, it's even more remarkable.

He did what he wanted to do after 23 years of racing. It's his life.


By this woe is me logic, every rider on the grid should just quit because of Rossi. This is what motivates most athletes
This is a boner driven narrative anyway. Stoner went out with one of the biggest contracts, on the best bike and still beating Rossi. You would have to be delusional to think he left because the series was skued against him.
 
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I equally dislike Rossi yet you rarely hear me "whine" about him.
I enjoy going after boners because they use their blind fanaticism to combat blind fanaticism. They fail to see the irony.
They claim to be purists yet seem to be oblivious that the greatest rider we have ever seen, lines up to race every Sunday

Mick Doohan, Wayne Rainey, Freddie, Eddie and all no longer race and IMO only but I would place them above the modern collection (not to mention even older school)



The elephant in the room is invisible. This is my exact point. I was referring to Marquez and you didnt even adnowledge him. Jp is rushing to post photos of Stoner with his elbow down because god forbid we give MM credit for evolving styles.

Because Marquez is yet to show that he is the greatest rider ........... it really is that simple Johnny .......... Marquez is beyond good, but not the greatest and nor the best at this stage of his career (either looked at in isolation or by comparison to others).

That said, he is well on the way to being considered in that high level of esteem, but let us also not forget that Lorenzo has more titles and may also be another who reaches the pantheon of recognition.


He has already far surpassed what Stoner was able to do on the Honda. Why is Stoners second year on the Honda dismissed as not being a failure. It was his mental error that forced him to miss 5 races due to injury.

Well yes he has surpassed what Stoner achieved on the Honda, of that there is no doubt so I congratulate you on your observational skills in that aspect but as for Stoner's second year being a failure, well he may well consider it so as he is thus wired that only first is acceptable and the rest are in fact losers.

Whether you wish to claim that the accident was a mental error that is drawing an extremely interesting correlation but on what do you base that?

Are all accidents mental errors in your world?

But by the way, you may wist to research as he in FACT missed three races as a result of the accident despite having competed that weekend to a poorly fourth (no doubt, not very impressive). Again Johnny but in FACT Stoner only missed 5 races in his very first year on those lowly 125cc machines


You know my thoughts on the Duc. He won in a transition year when Honda produced its least successful bike in the last 15-20 yrs.

You don't like Stoner we get it ......... I may even start saying however that you have a very Talpa'esque fascination in your efforts to besmirch, demean and denigrate him and his achievements which is all well and good if it helps you feel better about yourself.

Interestingly you mention that you do not whine about Rossi ...............

I will stick with my assumption that you miss Stoner more than you care to admit
 
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Mick Doohan, Wayne Rainey, Freddie, Eddie and all no longer race and IMO only but I would place them above the modern collection (not to mention even older school)





Because Marquez is yet to show that he is the greatest rider ........... it really is that simple Johnny .......... Marquez is beyond good, but not the greatest and nor the best at this stage of his career (either looked at in isolation or by comparison to others).

That said, he is well on the way to being considered in that high level of esteem, but let us also not forget that Lorenzo has more titles and may also be another who reaches the pantheon of recognition.




Well yes he has surpassed what Stoner achieved on the Honda, of that there is no doubt so I congratulate you on your observational skills in that aspect but as for Stoner's second year being a failure, well he may well consider it so as he is thus wired that only first is acceptable and the rest are in fact losers.

Whether you wish to claim that the accident was a mental error that is drawing an extremely interesting correlation but on what do you base that?

Are all accidents mental errors in your world?

But by the way, you may wist to research as he in FACT missed three races as a result of the accident despite having competed that weekend to a poorly fourth (no doubt, not very impressive). Again Johnny but in FACT Stoner only missed 5 races in his very first year on those lowly 125cc machines




You don't like Stoner we get it ......... I may even start saying however that you have a very Talpa'esque fascination in your efforts to besmirch, demean and denigrate him and his achievements which is all well and good if it helps you feel better about yourself.

Interestingly you mention that you do not whine about Rossi ...............

I will stick with my assumption that you miss Stoner more than you care to admit

This post is why I try to stay away from debates about stoner

What happens is you boners get offended, start throwing insults and bust out the psychology that my life must suck bla bla bla.
Broken record with your Rossi is evil, Stoner is Jesus
 
By this woe is me logic, every rider on the grid should just quit because of Rossi. This is what motivates most athletes
This is a boner driven narrative anyway. Stoner went out with one of the biggest contracts, on the best bike and still beating Rossi. You would have to be delusional to think he left because the series was skued against him.

Absolutely, and it is this very aspect that should demonstrate that the reasons he left the sport are his own.

There would be very few athletes who would reject the largest contract offered and continue to walk away.

Being brutally honest here JKD I have also not seen CS say that the sport was 'skewed against him' anywhere, but I have seen him say that the politics of the sport are skewed in favour of certain people and/or teams (which is the common theme in this very forum so is he wrong?)

Let us also not forget that he did in fact champion getting pit space for the motorhomes of Moto3/Moto2 riders as his point was simply that these riders are also part of the show and yet seemingly overlooked at all times.

He also has mentioned (complained of if it suits the narrative) a large number of aspects for which he was ridiculed at the time but over the last few years, aspects that have seemingly been implemented, addressed or are now being raised as cause for concern (faux grass on outside of kerbs, tarred run off areas etc).
 
This post is why I try to stay away from debates about stoner

What happens is you boners get offended, start throwing insults and bust out the psychology that my life must suck bla bla bla.
Broken record with your Rossi is evil, Stoner is Jesus

But you can't stay away can you ?

And who is offended ............ me, hardly as I have more important things to be offended about then an opinion of someone whom I have never met nor interacted with.

Johnny I asked before but you missed it so will ask again - find me one place, time or comment where I have called Rossi Evil (and your focus on Rossi does lead one to make assumptions against which you will rail).

Why not debate me Johnny or is it your way or the highway?

By the way I do not say your life sucks ....... show me where that is said ?

And where is the insult ?

Is Talap'esque the insult?

Again, show me where I say that Rossi is evil and I will gladly leave this place - seriously and if you cannot, then admit that not all people have labelled Rossi as evil as that is blatantly not the case .......... I wait.


EDIT - I should also add that the broken record comment is quite ironic is it not with your constant need to besmirch etc etc yada yada
 
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