Marquez hit Rossi multiple times -

steeeeeve · Oct 27, 2015

jnickell22 said:
Every comment is very context sensitive. Some are basing their comments on Marquez tactics before Rossi took him wide. Others are referring to after Marquez ran into his knee, there are even comments going back to previous years.

From the context of the racing before the contact I saw MM racing with Rossi as if it was his last lap ever. Rossi needs every point he can get since he is actually racing for the title. Marquez shouldn't pull over, that's for sure. But damn, he was acting like this was his last race. That back tire was definitely stepping out a little more than normal. On top of that, he traded paint on multiple occasions.

From the context of MM running into VR's knee. There is no interpretation necessary. Fact one: VR ran him wide. After watching that REALLY slow motion video of the incident, it's clear that Rossi was on the brakes but in a constant fashion. His front end never dove any further from the time before MM hit to when MM bounced off of him. After MM bounces off of Rossi, Rossi's knee pops out but it's not a frickin kick.

I'm not a fanboy of any of the riders. So Marc, keep that stupidity to yourself. Speaking of Marc, how can you call others fanboys when your stinkin username is Marc Marquez.

Just to avoid confusion, in the future can we please specify which marc marquez we are referring to - Marc Marquez the Racer or Marc Marquez the Poster Who Constantly Refers to Others as Fanboys.
Thanks

Jumkie · Oct 27, 2015

Steeve, that's hilarious, I think we should reserve proper names for the racers. But the member "Marc Marquez" does make some valid points, and I'd like to see them debated actually.

payne by name · Oct 27, 2015

Cool Blue said:
Mate: spot on. All of the supposition about what either guy was thinking or intending is kiddy stuff... You can't nail a guy on what you think he was thinking. It's just an emotional reaction in support of existing prejudices. It's a fan boy circle jerk.

It feels like a natural reaction to lash out like Rossi did to be honest (although you could hardly call it professional), but I'm just interested in keeping it fact based: it looked a hell of a lot like a kick but, as someone else stated, he wasn't looking where he was kicking so you can't infer any intent. But, kicking is unsafe and irresponsible, regardless of intent, and those are the two principles in the (woefully blur) rule that VR was pinged on. So, on that point I guess I would offer a different view and say that the (as you rightly say) unprovable intent is actually not an issue.

If you are looking for intent then I'd say deliberately slowing down whilst staring over your left shoulder at the person on your left, whilst in a right hand turn is clear intent on wanting to disrupt someone's ride.

Rossi wasn't trying a new line into the corner, he eyeballed Marquez all the way to running him off. What more intent do you need to see, a handwritten sign?

Jumkie · Oct 27, 2015

steeeeeve said:
The reason I don't feel the same is this. A racer racing hard for a win is different that simply ....... with someone to .... with them.
I believe in the race you are referring to if Rossi could have passed and pulled away we would have. I don't believe that's what happened in sepang.
I believe that Marc had the pace to pull away.
But I will admit I could be wrong.

How have you surmised Marc was just "simply ......." with Rossi? Also, please outline the evidence that supports why you know "Marc had the pace to pull away". His early race pace difficulties have been an element of his season, quite visible in fact. But you are basing this "belief" that he had the pace to pull away on what? Also, do you have any previous posts, say before last Thursday, where you have commented Marquez sandbagging in the early stages of a race? I trust you have based your accusations of Marc, as they are serious questions of his integrity, on more than a question of 'faith'. So please, what substantial evidence can you offer where we can all put his guilt to rest: GUILTY as CHARGED!

Jumkie · Oct 27, 2015

Cool Blue · Oct 27, 2015

payne by name said:
If you are looking for intent then I'd say deliberately slowing down whilst staring over your left shoulder at the person on your left, whilst in a right hand turn is clear intent on wanting to disrupt someone's ride.

Rossi wasn't trying a new line into the corner, he eyeballed Marquez all the way to running him off. What more intent do you need to see, a handwritten sign?

My point is that intent is irrelevant because it can't be proven without a confession. That's why I was focusing on physics of the incident. I suspect there are other media or data that confirm if there was a kick or not.

The regulation is very subjective, it just says: "Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit- lane."

But there is no qualification about intent, for example it doesn't say: "Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not INTENTIONALLY cause danger to other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit- lane."

So, according to the rules, taking a wide line and blocking is ok as long as it doesn't cause danger, but kicking your opponents handlebars or, choosing a line through your opponent for that matter, does cause danger and I guess that's the basis of the ruling.

The unwritten rules and gentlemen's agreements and perceptions of character, are only about maintaining support from your fellow competitors and your fan and sponsorship base. Important stuff, but outside of the ambit of the RD.

#22 · Oct 28, 2015

steeeeeve said:
The reason I don't feel the same is this. A racer racing hard for a win is different that simply ....... with someone to .... with them.
I believe in the race you are referring to if Rossi could have passed and pulled away we would have. I don't believe that's what happened in sepang.
I believe that Marc had the pace to pull away.
But I will admit I could be wrong.

As Jumkie has said, you are basing your entire argument based on a 'hunch'. I believe that Rossi was ....... with Lorenzo in Motegi 2010, but you do not...see the issue here?

steeeeeve said:
looks like he leaned in to rossi. does it not look that way to you?

Two Alpha said:
Why did Marquez choose to lean in and make contact when there were better options available for him? In my opinion he rides a bit like an accident waiting to happen, and especially so in this particular race.

I have raced, and many of my respected peers on this forum have raced too. The issue here is many poeple commenting on a split second moment in a motor race have not, and therefore have zero understanding of what goes on in a situation like this, what goes through your mind and how little time you have to make decisions.

Marquez passed Rossi around T13. Coming into T14 he is ready to turn in when Rossi appears alongside him. In a nattural racers reaction, Marquez would want to brake a bit harder and begin to turn in in preparation to 'undercut Rossi' on the exit of the corner. However he has to stand the bike up once he realises Rossi and the Yamaha are still blocking his intent to cut back up the inside. So again he brakes a bit more and starts to lean in but again Rossi is blocking him. The repeats until Marquez can see his is close to running off track and in a NATURAL RACERS REACTION is trying to avoid running off track so again tries leaning in to turn the bike and avoid running off track. This is when he contacts Rossi's bike a final time and comes off.

All this happens in tenths of a second, and you are sitting there at your computer watching slow mo replays and saying there are multiple options open to him? Please enlighten us.

Jumkie · Oct 28, 2015

#22 said:
' I believe that Rossi was ....... with Lorenzo in Motegi 2010, but you do not...see the issue here?

And let me blow your mind further, it wasn't just an exercise to show my buddy Steveee how Marc's guilt is based on so little as a hunch. BUT...

I distinctly remember commentary on this Motegi 2010 race that alluded to the battle much more than just about race position BUT a message of PRIDE by ROSSI to Lorenzo that Valentino is still the man and can still toy with him. AH THE IRONY!

So let's recap: Some observes had a 'hunch' Rossi battling with Lorenzo, a title contender, engaged in hard racing for PRIDE! And at the time Rossi's fans LOVED IT and ADMIRED IT!

Mind .......

Two Alpha · Oct 28, 2015

#22 said:
All this happens in tenths of a second, and you are sitting there at your computer watching slow mo replays and saying there are multiple options open to him? Please enlighten us.

I'm sure you've already thought of at least two other options that would have kept him on the track and in the race, which would you have chosen? Would the head butt even cross your mind? I doubt it.

AlienDNA · Oct 28, 2015

@Jumkie and that immature trolling .... (user: Marc Marquez), please watch the video posted by nikck666 in thread titled “Proof that MM isn’t all innocent”: https://streamable.com/6j4c

There is all the proof you need. Documented in video. All you have to do is actually watch with an unbiased frame of mind. Marc takes Rossi wide several times by forcing his way past at the apex and then drifting out wide, even taking Rossi onto the rumble strip. On more than one occasion he also drifts wide really quickly from the apex almost clipping Rossi’s front tire. Intent?!

There was no doubt in my mind while watching the race live that one or both of them were going to go down. None.

Arrabbiata1 · Oct 28, 2015

AlienDNA said:
@Jumkie and that immature trolling .... (user: Marc Marquez), please watch the video posted by nikck666 in thread titled “Proof that MM isn’t all innocent”: https://streamable.com/6j4c

There is all the proof you need. Documented in video. All you have to do is actually watch with an unbiased frame of mind. Marc takes Rossi wide several times by forcing his way past at the apex and then drifting out wide, even taking Rossi onto the rumble strip. On more than one occasion he also drifts wide really quickly from the apex almost clipping Rossi’s front tire. Intent?!

There was no doubt in my mind while watching the race live that one or both of them were going to go down. None.

Since you're back again, would you mind scanning in your race licence?

Mr Squiggle · Oct 28, 2015

AlienDNA said:
There is all the proof you need. Documented in video. All you have to do is actually watch with an unbiased frame of mind. Marc takes Rossi wide several times by forcing his way past at the apex and then drifting out wide, even taking Rossi onto the rumble strip.

Actually you are wrong - HRC was trialing their new electro-magnetic tractor beam technology....thats how Marquez managed to drag Rossi wide of the racing line. Silly Billy.

Jumkie · Oct 28, 2015

AlienDNA said:
There was no doubt in my mind while watching the race live that one or both of them were going to go down. None.

Go back and watch Phillip Island again, Iannone comes closer to taking out Rossi that Marc ever did at Sepang. Oh an nobody went down, and it was double the riders battling fiercely, if not harder than Malaysia. There is absolutely nothing suspect that Marquez did in Sepang that not all 4 did in Australia. The ONLY difference is that YOU buy Rossi's paranoia.

Go back and watch Iannone, Rossi's buddy, battle him. Maybe Rossi got it wrong, maybe Iannone doesn't want a fellow Italian lifting the title. Certainly it must of ran across Rossi's broken perception, because he interrogated the man for....get this, RACING him.

Arrabbiata1 · Oct 28, 2015

Jumkie said:
Go back and watch Phillip Island again, Iannone comes closer to taking out Rossi that Marc ever did at Sepang. Oh an nobody went down, and it was double the riders battling fiercely, if not harder than Malaysia. There is absolutely nothing suspect that Marquez did in Sepang that not all 4 did in Australia. The ONLY difference is that YOU buy Rossi's paranoia.

Go back and watch Iannone, Rossi's buddy, battle him. Maybe Rossi got it wrong, maybe Iannone doesn't want a fellow Italian lifting the title. Certainly it must of ran across Rossi's broken perception, because he interrogated the man for....get this, RACING him.

It's only a matter of time before things turn sour with Joe as they did with Marco or Sete, because, Iannone is faster than Rossi - and he know's it.

AlienDNA said:
@Jumkie and that immature trolling .... (user: Marc Marquez), please watch the video posted by nikck666 in thread titled “Proof that MM isn’t all innocent”: https://streamable.com/6j4c

There is all the proof you need. Documented in video. All you have to do is actually watch with an unbiased frame of mind. Marc takes Rossi wide several times by forcing his way past at the apex and then drifting out wide, even taking Rossi onto the rumble strip. On more than one occasion he also drifts wide really quickly from the apex almost clipping Rossi’s front tire. Intent?!

There was no doubt in my mind while watching the race live that one or both of them were going to go down. None.

Did you realise, your user name is one letter short of 'in denial'.

'Interesting'

JPSLotus · Oct 28, 2015

My guess is Rossi probably threatened Maniac Joe into supporting him...likely would have told him he would throw him under the bus in the Italian press just to make life miserable for him in Italy.

Everyone else has come down on VR.

Jumkie · Oct 28, 2015

povol · Oct 28, 2015

steeeeeve said:
The reason I don't feel the same is this. A racer racing hard for a win is different that simply ....... with someone to .... with them.
I believe in the race you are referring to if Rossi could have passed and pulled away we would have. I don't believe that's what happened in sepang.
I believe that Marc had the pace to pull away.
But I will admit I could be wrong.

Rossi was not racing Lorenzo for the win, it was for 3rd place, just like Sepang. He almost took out his own team mate who was on the verge of winning a title. Rossi was reprimanded by Yamaha for that little tantrum

povol · Oct 28, 2015

nomad said:
Marquez was riding like a ....... .... and was not adhering to the unwritten rule that states that if you're not in the championship, then you don't interfere with those that are. /QUOTE]
unwritten rules are as useless as the paper they are not written on.

povol · Oct 28, 2015

jnickell22 said:
Marquez shouldn't pull over, that's for sure. But damn, he was acting like this was his last race. That back tire was definitely stepping out a little more than normal. On top of that, he traded paint on multiple occasions.

F

Actually, they never touched up until Rossi snapped and rode him off the track.It was excellent racing right up to that point.

Mick D · Oct 28, 2015

povol said:
Actually, they never touched up until Rossi snapped and rode him off the track.It was excellent racing right up to that point.

Actually they did touch once Pov.

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Marquez hit Rossi multiple times -

steeeeeve

Jumkie

payne by name

Jumkie

Jumkie

Cool Blue

#22

Jumkie

Two Alpha

AlienDNA

Arrabbiata1

Mr Squiggle

Jumkie

Arrabbiata1

JPSLotus

Jumkie

povol

povol

povol

Mick D

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