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Laguna race thread

The discussion has to do with lesser brain function when a body is deprived of it's natural compliments of nutrition. Even hillbilly Pov has acknowledged this as an established medical fact.



The thing is, you have chosen this line of reasoning (however sound it may be in general application) to explain Ben Spies performance difference from world superbike. conventional wisdom/observation skills will tell you that Ben is not as good as the top end motogp riders yet, you may also recall how other superbike riders have expressed the relentless speed in motogp right from the word go, and how that is difficult to adapt too. Additionally Lex quite rightly pointed out Ben's equipment could be a factor. It has also been mentioned that Ben shows no signs of fatigue or tiring, is fit enough to be a hugely competitive cyclist, and that his weight has not changed significantly since the times when this problem certainly didn't exist. Yet despite all of this, you assure us all that Ben, his doctors, physical trainers and diet experts have simply overlooked something that is relatively common knowledge (apparently).



Even if he does suffer from the issue you describe, who's to say he'd be any faster by putting on weight to increase his mental capacity. Maybe he's already struck the best possible balance. I don't know if you are some kind of die hard Spies fan trying to justify why he isn't as good as you had hoped he'd be, but your explanation is pretty far out, and i think at least Ben is doing a pretty decent job in motogp so far.
 
Yes - but I have always been a skinny guy. My weight is appropriate to my metabolism. I'm not thin because of excessive

dietary regimens. In fact I'm pretty much the same height and weight as Stoner. The snap below was shot three months ago. You should only hope to look this good when you turn 59.
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Keshav.jpg


I haven't seen photos of him - but if the reports of those who spotted him at Indy are reasonably accurate

- I won't be doing anything soon that might cause me to resemble Pov. If fact I'd love to see him post a

a current photo of himself. Something tells me he won't; I think it's some kind of Klan regulation.
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Yea, at your age, it would be damn near impossible to grow a foot in height and put on a 130 lbs.
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I know you are but what am I?

pee-wee-stoner.jpg


And BTW - who the .... are you

and what makes you think anybody

gives a .... what

you think newbie? http://www.powerslide.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif



Really... I love it when twats like you jump in to comment on a debate without actually absorbing the content. It's not about physical prowess. The discussion has to do with lesser brain function when a body is deprived of it's natural compliments of nutrition. Even hillbilly Pov has acknowledged this as an established medical fact. The only reason he continued to debate me by trying (badly) to explain why this medical phenomenon was somehow not applicable to Spies - is that he's constitutionally incapable of admitting he's wrong about anything.



You clarify one's intelligence by the number of posts they have made? Very impressive.



Someone said most of the older people left this board - I can see why. One's post count means more than the fact that someone has created a theory as to why one incredibly fit athlete is in fact unfit, which is affecting his brain function, and is cranky because no one else is willing to buy into his ridiculous theory - but due to his post count we (or I) should buy it. Get a grip.



Here's a thought - you mentioned that you have always been thin. I suspect that it is affecting your brain function. You have to accept this theory - it is established medical fact.
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I'm a fat guy so no such issue here.



Newbie out.



edit: am I to assume that you are blind Spies fan looking for excuses as to why he isn't winning?
 
A. You clarify one's intelligence by the number of posts they have made? Very impressive.



BSomeone said most of the older people left this board - I can see why. One's post count means more than the fact that someone has created a theory as to why one incredibly fit athlete is in fact unfit, which is affecting his brain function, and is cranky because no one else is willing to buy into his ridiculous theory - but due to his post count we (or I) should buy it. Get a grip.



Here's a thought - you mentioned that you have always been thin. I suspect that it is affecting your brain function. You have to accept this theory - it is established medical fact.
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I'm a fat guy so no such issue here.



Newbie out.



Cedit: am I to assume that you are blind Spies fan looking for excuses as to why he isn't winning?



A. Now you're putting words in my mouth that I never said or implied (see attached illustration) I mentioned that you were a newbie because you make the typical newbie gaff of trying to establish yourself on the forum by attacking a person's thread without actually following the entire thread - and with a half-assed idea of core of the debate - you jump right in feet-first and make and ... of yourself. Read the ....... thread - before attacking what's being said in it. In a nutshell what was said was, a person who does not take in the amount of nutrients his body naturally craves - will have some degree of malnourishment to the brain - which adversely affects problem solving abilities. This is established medical fact. Ask any doctor. Michael M who is a physician has already concurred. I only speculated that Spies and Hayden could be suffering from this and that their ability to race better might be affected.



B. The reason a lot of the long time PowerSliders have left is because they're tired of pissy, people with misdirected anger, who come on here to spout ignorant .....



C. Again - I never said with absolute certainty this was why Spies wasn't winning. What I speculated was, maybe it is why Spies is having difficulties figuring out how to make those 2nd row starts work for him.
 

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I've been posting here since before the thread began - there is nothing that I've missed. I am not saying that malnutrition will not affect an individual's mental acuity - that's a fact. I am saying that it is absolutely ridiculous to attach that to Spies. Yes, just a theory - but a ridiculous one. If anyone is making an ... of themselves it is the one who came up with this theory.



If you know ANYTHING about bicycle racing you know that diets are carefully monitored. Spies doesn't just ride with a bicycle team, he owns one. I believe he is aware of his dietary requirements.



And to be honest, I have more posts than you. They just don't happen to be in this forum.
 
I've been posting here since before the thread began - there is nothing that I've missed. I am not saying that malnutrition will not affect an individual's mental acuity - that's a fact. I am saying that it is absolutely ridiculous to attach that to Spies. Yes, just a theory - but a ridiculous one. If anyone is making an ... of themselves it is the one who came up with this theory, and doggedly defended it when presented with facts to the contrary



If you know ANYTHING about bicycle racing you know that diets are carefully monitored. Spies doesn't just ride with a bicycle team, he owns one. I believe he is aware of his dietary requirements.



And to be honest, I have more posts than you. They just don't happen to be in this forum.

Hope you dont mind, i fixerated it a bit for you
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A. I've been posting here since before the thread began - there is nothing that I've missed. I am not saying that malnutrition will not affect an individual's mental acuity - that's a fact. I am saying that it is absolutely ridiculous to attach that to Spies. Yes, just a theory - but a ridiculous one. If anyone is making an ... of themselves it is the one who came up with this theory.



If you know ANYTHING about bicycle racing you know that diets are carefully monitored. Spies doesn't just ride with a bicycle team, he owns one. I believe he is aware of his dietary requirements.



And to be honest, I have more posts than you. They just don't happen to be in this forum.



A. Again with the number of posts. Who gives a ....? You could post 12,000 times and still be a bonehead - evidently.



B. You're doing exactly what Pov did. You acknowledge this basic fact of medicine and then in the same sentence, with a wave of the hand

- you discount the potential for this to be true for Spies. If this established fact is true for the billions of people in the world - what makes you think

it's not applicable to Spies? Just because he rides or runs a bike team doesn't make him immune to the laws of physics. Moreover

- he's not a doctor, and neither are you. Professional athletes - on a regular basis - experiment and make mistakes with regards

to diet and frequently do not realize all the consequences of the regimens they create. Again - he's motorcyclist from Texas with

a highschool degree - he's not a bio-physics major or a physician. Athletes are monitored for heart-rate, metabolism etc.

But have you ever heard of an athlete being tested to see if his problem solving skills have declined? No.
 
Ben Spies

Spies, the 2009 World Superbike champion, identified early race laps as his main area of weakness this year.



"We need to be better in the first laps - just trust the tyres more,” he explained. “It's something I have to work on as a rider and I'm not afraid to admit it. We've been good in the middle of the race and at the end, but it doesn't hack it when you're 10 seconds back on lap 20. I just need to trust more and get more confidence and experience... I think that's the key to it."



http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/165620/1/ben_spies_no_excuses_next_year.html
 
A. Again with the number of posts. Who gives a ....? You could post 12,000 times and still be a bonehead - evidently.



B. You're doing exactly what Pov did. You acknowledge this basic fact of medicine and then in the same sentence, with a wave of the hand

- you discount the potential for this to be true for Spies. If this established fact is true for the billions of people in the world - what makes you think

it's not applicable to Spies? Just because he rides or runs a bike team doesn't make him immune to the laws of physics. Moreover

- he's not a doctor, and neither are you.
Professional athletes - on a regular basis - experiment and make mistakes with regards

to diet and frequently do not realize all the consequences of the regimens they create. Again - he's motorcyclist from Texas with

a highschool degree - he's not a bio-physics major or a physician. Athletes are monitored for heart-rate, metabolism etc.

But have you ever heard of an athlete being tested to see if his problem solving skills have declined? No.


Because you have been presented with undeniable facts that Spies does not suffer from mental or physical stamina issues. His late race charges on a weekly basis should be proof enough. If that doesnt do it for you, the links provided for you where straight from the horses mouth, Spies himself says his forte is the end of races on worn tires and his Achilles heal is not having any feel in the front until he gets the tires warmed up And again, im no scientist, but i dont believe that nutritional sciences fall within the Laws of Physics.
 
Ben Spies

Spies, the 2009 World Superbike champion, identified early race laps as his main area of weakness this year.



"We need to be better in the first laps - just trust the tyres more,” he explained. “It's something I have to work on as a rider and I'm not afraid to admit it. We've been good in the middle of the race and at the end, but it doesn't hack it when you're 10 seconds back on lap 20. I just need to trust more and get more confidence and experience... I think that's the key to it."



http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/165620/1/ben_spies_no_excuses_next_year.html



You were "ahead" so to speak when we started the debate about Ben's poor early-race form. As long as Ben is off the pace it lends credence to the idea that he has some kind of a weakness. If he goes faster next season, we will see what he says is the difference maker. If he says, "I love the new tires and the new chassis", you'll be out of luck.



Articles from last year don't strengthen your position. Next year, I can find the article from this season in which Ben says the 1000s will be much better for him. Wouldn't resolve anything.
 
Saying you've presented facts to the contrary, and actually doing so - are two different things.

As usual you've presented nothing but your opinion.



You haven't really presented any relevant facts, just that some people do suffer from not getting enough nourishment. It is equally factual that some people do not suffer from this. Whether or not Ben Spies does is entirely speculation, to me most of the evidence and good faith in him being in a better position to know than you makes me think he doesn't, but you've seen photos of him looking thinner than you want him to, so you are convinced. Stalemate
 
A. Again with the number of posts. Who gives a ....? You could post 12,000 times and still be a bonehead - evidently.



I only brought it up because it seemed important to you. The newbie aspect seemed to matter, now it doesn't that's fine - what is important is that you are happy.



I'm done, you are going to cling to your theory with both arms - have fun. Povol's point that Spies is faster later in races than early destroys your theory, so cling a little tighter.
 
Because you have been presented with undeniable facts that Spies does not suffer from mental or physical stamina issues. His late race charges on a weekly basis should be proof enough. If that doesnt do it for you, the links provided for you where straight from the horses mouth, Spies himself says his forte is the end of races on worn tires and his Achilles heal is not having any feel in the front until he gets the tires warmed up And again, im no scientist, but i dont believe that nutritional sciences fall within the Laws of Physics.



And which undeniable facts would they be?



That his forte is the end of the race - refutes nothing. I watched all his last two seasons in the AMA and every race in WSBK

and know as well as you do - that coming from behind at the last minute was not Spies' primary tool for winning races.

He's just good at it.



I'm no scientist but physics, as we were taught in school, are the foundation of all sciences - including math and biology.
 
You haven't really presented any relevant facts, just that some people do suffer from not getting enough nourishment. It is equally factual that some people do not suffer from this. Whether or not Ben Spies does is entirely speculation, to me most of the evidence and good faith in him being in a better position to know than you makes me think he doesn't, but you've seen photos of him looking thinner than you want him to, so you are convinced. Stalemate



People are going to extreme lengths to avoid the obvious b/c they don't like the implications. Ben showed up sick at Sachsenring. His celebration for winning Assen was gorging on Dutch pastries b/c he doesn't normally get to eat them during the season, according to Julian Ryder. Most of these riders have talked about their desire to be underweight for competitive purposes. Everything that Keshav has said is true, and it plays out every single season. Illness during the hottest months of summer. Weird tummy aches. Constant training regiment adjustment b/c they walk a very fine line between fit and malnourished (Nicky's and Ben's change in training being the most visible).



People refuse to admit the problems these guys encounter from dieting b/c they don't want the riders to change or b/c they prefer to be ignorant for reasons about which I do not wish to speculate. However, acknowledging the obvious complications of extreme dieting does not mean there is a readily available solution. Some of the bigger riders, Hopper for instance, have said they prefer to risk illness and stamina problems than to endure the stress on their system caused by carrying excessive weight. Nicky and Ben both had major arm pump surgery............they both went on major diets.



Extreme dieting may be the lesser of two evils, but it is still an evil. I don't understand why people are so resistant.
 
You haven't really presented any relevant facts, just that some people do suffer from not getting enough nourishment. It is equally factual that some people do not suffer from this. Whether or not Ben Spies does is entirely speculation, to me most of the evidence and good faith in him being in a better position to know than you makes me think he doesn't, but you've seen photos of him looking thinner than you want him to, so you are convinced. Stalemate



Stalemate my ....



I have presented relevant facts. Show me any medical journal that says some people do not suffer when malnourished.
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It always was speculation Tom. I made that clear right from the get-go.



As to him being in a better position to know - this is a meaningless statement. Problem solving capacity is not something one measures

with a thermometer. Spies has never said anything to contradict my theory. Such a thing wouldn't normally come up in the course of the

usual journo-fluff interviews he does.



As relates to "most of the evidence" I again ask; what evidence are you speaking of? If anything... Spies' inability to do well at the beginning of the race - after a season and a half - supports my theory - rather than defeats it.
 
Kesh, though your theory may be defensible, I really doubt it. Underweight and malnourished are two very different things...
 
You were "ahead" so to speak when we started the debate about Ben's poor early-race form. As long as Ben is off the pace it lends credence to the idea that he has some kind of a weakness. If he goes faster next season, we will see what he says is the difference maker. If he says, "I love the new tires and the new chassis", you'll be out of luck.



Articles from last year don't strengthen your position. Next year, I can find the article from this season in which Ben says the 1000s will be much better for him. Wouldn't resolve anything.

lmfao do you have a point or any proof that he's malnourished. This is an article about Ben's goal for 2011 and what he says he has to do to get better. He said he needs to trust the tires more, how could you disagree with that. It's coming straight out of his mouth and what we're seeing on the track supports that, he has poor pace during the early laps. So I say he is still having issues with trusting the tires, I don't think the problem is him being lean to a degree that it's causing his poor early lap performance. If you would rather believe that he can't trust the tires because he's malnourished then you go ahead and believe that, I'll believe him and what he says.
 
Kesh, though your theory may be defensible, I really doubt it. Underweight and malnourished are two very different things...



Mick -- Malnourishment is a word we associate with little black babies in the Congo with extended stomachs, flies crawling over their

crusty faces. However that is merely an extreme example. It can be much more subtle; ie - the situation I outlined in one

of the earliest posts in this thread about the chess player who regularly beat all her opponents and then upon going with

a fully vegetarian diet was regularly beaten by players who simply were not in her league. When experimentally she began

eating fish for animal protein - she became unbeatable. It's not that she was fatigued or lethargic in her day-to-day life,

but rather her problem cognitive skills suffered because she was refusing herself the nutrition that her body craved.

In my friend's case - there was no significant loss of body weight per se. Her brain simply wasn't receiving sufficient

quantities of specific proteins it required to maintain her usual standard of cognition and problem solving.



This is an issue that has been addressed in medical studies time and again. I've been aware of it for years because of

research I did when writing a book on India. I read several studies that concluded that poor nutrition can even

cause retardation of intelligence across generations.
 

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