Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jul 2 2008, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you don't like Motegi then right
Well what I mean is they use part of the oval. At Motegi they do not. Using part of an oval is ........, and makes the track look unprofessional.
Well what I mean is they use part of the oval. At Motegi they do not. Using part of an oval is ........, and makes the track look unprofessional.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Jul 3 2008, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well what I mean is they use part of the oval. At Motegi they do not. Using part of an oval is ........, and makes the track look unprofessional.
Dude that track is historic....its epic just to have bikes back there....trust me when that place is filled to capacity and the track is all decked out for a full on GP.....it will look right.
Dude that track is historic....its epic just to have bikes back there....trust me when that place is filled to capacity and the track is all decked out for a full on GP.....it will look right.
Some of the turns look a little tight for a MotoGP bike. Who wants to see first gear corners on an 800? The smaller bikes will be great on that track. I'm still trying to figure out what corner to buy tickets for.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 2 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Apparently that issue is addressed with a suitably slow final corner. The only way the wall is likely to see action is if Hector Barbera gets wild, and they have pitwalls on all of the homestraights anyway so that wouldnt be a Indy specific issue. I'd be very surprised if a brand new track, with all the work that has been done especially for motogp would fall short of FIM safetey standards.
With all my credit to your post, but (maybe) I am the only one concerned about the last corner??? ....Where is the run off, and how the hell can this track pass modern day safety standards???....
The point of removing Suzuka was because the concrete walls were too close........so I have no idea how this is any better.
Ask Lorenzo, Capi or Hopper what they think about falling onto the ground... without a wall.
Since 1993 and that awful day when Ayrton Senna died, I thought that the words "wall" and "racing" were antinomic. Seems a little wrong in these days to have tracks layed out like this.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...m_the_wall.html
Even Olivier Jacque seemed a little confused
"The track was not difficult to get used to. It took maybe 10 laps. The track is quite short, and the biggest problem was getting used to riding against the wall," said Jacque of the 2.62-mile layout. "It's quite funny to ride against the wall because that would never happen in our circuit. Now, I'm only one metre from the wall, so you really appreciate the speed."
......
It's all about money.....
With all my credit to your post, but (maybe) I am the only one concerned about the last corner??? ....Where is the run off, and how the hell can this track pass modern day safety standards???....
The point of removing Suzuka was because the concrete walls were too close........so I have no idea how this is any better.
Ask Lorenzo, Capi or Hopper what they think about falling onto the ground... without a wall.
Since 1993 and that awful day when Ayrton Senna died, I thought that the words "wall" and "racing" were antinomic. Seems a little wrong in these days to have tracks layed out like this.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...m_the_wall.html
Even Olivier Jacque seemed a little confused
"The track was not difficult to get used to. It took maybe 10 laps. The track is quite short, and the biggest problem was getting used to riding against the wall," said Jacque of the 2.62-mile layout. "It's quite funny to ride against the wall because that would never happen in our circuit. Now, I'm only one metre from the wall, so you really appreciate the speed."
......
It's all about money.....
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 4 2008, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some of the turns look a little tight for a MotoGP bike. Who wants to see first gear corners on an 800? The smaller bikes will be great on that track. I'm still trying to figure out what corner to buy tickets for.
same here man...I can't wait to go!
same here man...I can't wait to go!
Joined Jun 2008
2K Posts | 6+
America
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Jul 3 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well what I mean is they use part of the oval. At Motegi they do not. Using part of an oval is ........, and makes the track look unprofessional.
I agree. This also remains true for the gayest track in america: Daytona. ...... Nascar ......... No wonder we have issues with getting bike racing to the top we run on primarily on car tracks.
I agree. This also remains true for the gayest track in america: Daytona. ...... Nascar ......... No wonder we have issues with getting bike racing to the top we run on primarily on car tracks.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Jul 6 2008, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>With all my credit to your post, but (maybe) I am the only one concerned about the last corner??? ....Where is the run off, and how the hell can this track pass modern day safety standards???....
Well I think people are getting hung up on the outside wall of the last turn because it is a wall that directly lines the oval circuit. If that oval circuit wasn't a track in its own right it would be a suitably sized tarmac run off much like we have at other modern circuits.
Well I think people are getting hung up on the outside wall of the last turn because it is a wall that directly lines the oval circuit. If that oval circuit wasn't a track in its own right it would be a suitably sized tarmac run off much like we have at other modern circuits.
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 7 2008, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well I think people are getting hung up on the outside wall of the last turn because it is a wall that directly lines the oval circuit. If that oval circuit wasn't a track in its own right it would be a suitably sized tarmac run off much like we have at other modern circuits.
And you're trying to say exactly what here?
The wall is there and there is no run off. Couldn't give a flying .... why the wall is there, the danger is self evident.
As you say modern circuits (ie ones where safety has been considered) have large tarmac run-offs or gravel traps. These features are not there to look nice, they are there for safety.
So yes, we're "hung up" on the fact that there's a WALL on the outside of the final turn.
And you're trying to say exactly what here?
The wall is there and there is no run off. Couldn't give a flying .... why the wall is there, the danger is self evident.
As you say modern circuits (ie ones where safety has been considered) have large tarmac run-offs or gravel traps. These features are not there to look nice, they are there for safety.
So yes, we're "hung up" on the fact that there's a WALL on the outside of the final turn.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jul 7 2008, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And you're trying to say exactly what here?
The wall is there and there is no run off. Couldn't give a flying .... why the wall is there, the danger is self evident.
As you say modern circuits (ie ones where safety has been considered) have large tarmac run-offs or gravel traps. These features are not there to look nice, they are there for safety.
So yes, we're "hung up" on the fact that there's a WALL on the outside of the final turn.
The final turn may finish on the oval course but the bulk of it is infield, leaving the width of the oval as run off. The corner is a slow turn so not much run-off is required. Look at the exit of the foggy esses, could you race a nascar between the track and the wall?
The wall is there and there is no run off. Couldn't give a flying .... why the wall is there, the danger is self evident.
As you say modern circuits (ie ones where safety has been considered) have large tarmac run-offs or gravel traps. These features are not there to look nice, they are there for safety.
So yes, we're "hung up" on the fact that there's a WALL on the outside of the final turn.
The final turn may finish on the oval course but the bulk of it is infield, leaving the width of the oval as run off. The corner is a slow turn so not much run-off is required. Look at the exit of the foggy esses, could you race a nascar between the track and the wall?
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
Last I looked at the layout, I felt that everything appeared to be relatively safe. My thoughts regarding the end of the front straight is that it is slower, thus any incidents will either be alleviated by riders using the oval to slow and stop before hitting a wall or if they fall then I feel that the low speed and banking should keep riders out of the wall.
But remember, I'm just Joe Nine to Five though, my opinions are as worthless as the rest of yours. I can't see any incidents that would be worse than Hopper piling into the air fence at 80 clicks in Assen.
But remember, I'm just Joe Nine to Five though, my opinions are as worthless as the rest of yours. I can't see any incidents that would be worse than Hopper piling into the air fence at 80 clicks in Assen.
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 7 2008, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The final turn may finish on the oval course but the bulk of it is infield, leaving the width of the oval as run off. The corner is a slow turn so not much run-off is required. Look at the exit of the foggy esses, could you race a nascar between the track and the wall?
What run off?
3844:indy.jpg]
Given the fact that tarmac has poor retardation abilities on a sliding bike or rider, that wall's just asking for trouble. And any bike that hits the wall will likely bounce off, due to conservation of momentum, to end up in the middle of the track, or even collect a passing rider.
As far as the exit of the Foggy Esses is concerned, there's a tyre wall there, plus the run-off exists. It is grass and given the British summer weather that's likely to be water-logged and thus improve the retardation.
What run off?
3844:indy.jpg]
Given the fact that tarmac has poor retardation abilities on a sliding bike or rider, that wall's just asking for trouble. And any bike that hits the wall will likely bounce off, due to conservation of momentum, to end up in the middle of the track, or even collect a passing rider.
As far as the exit of the Foggy Esses is concerned, there's a tyre wall there, plus the run-off exists. It is grass and given the British summer weather that's likely to be water-logged and thus improve the retardation.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jul 7 2008, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What run off?
Given the fact that tarmac has poor retardation abilities on a sliding bike or rider, that wall's just asking for trouble. And any bike that hits the wall will likely bounce off, due to conservation of momentum, to end up in the middle of the track, or even collect a passing rider.
As far as the exit of the Foggy Esses is concerned, there's a tyre wall there, plus the run-off exists. It is grass and given the British summer weather that's likely to be water-logged and thus improve the retardation.
Firstly we havent been to this track, nor have we seen any decent coverage of it. None of us really KNOW what the run-offs are like and what speeds the bikes will be running. My take on it however is a faithful one, because i don't believe the FIM would homologate, and the riders ok a circuit below standard. If the sfetey comission thought it was a risk, they wouldn't be willing to ride it, these guys aren't stupid.
Given the fact that tarmac has poor retardation abilities on a sliding bike or rider, that wall's just asking for trouble. And any bike that hits the wall will likely bounce off, due to conservation of momentum, to end up in the middle of the track, or even collect a passing rider.
As far as the exit of the Foggy Esses is concerned, there's a tyre wall there, plus the run-off exists. It is grass and given the British summer weather that's likely to be water-logged and thus improve the retardation.
Firstly we havent been to this track, nor have we seen any decent coverage of it. None of us really KNOW what the run-offs are like and what speeds the bikes will be running. My take on it however is a faithful one, because i don't believe the FIM would homologate, and the riders ok a circuit below standard. If the sfetey comission thought it was a risk, they wouldn't be willing to ride it, these guys aren't stupid.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jul 7 2008, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't see any incidents that would be worse than Hopper piling into the air fence at 80 clicks in Assen.
That was no airfence, just a tyre barrier with an advertising board on the front.
That was no airfence, just a tyre barrier with an advertising board on the front.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
As far as run off on the last turn, I think for those saying its dangerous, I think you haven't seen how the bike gets onto that front straight. The bike is practically on the same tragectory as the straight as it enters. The turn before this is a very slow left hander. The run off at the end of the straight is fine.
One thing that Spies does mention about the wall is that its ok, but rather Euros are simply not use to them so close going straight.
LINK
One thing that Spies does mention about the wall is that its ok, but rather Euros are simply not use to them so close going straight.
LINK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 8 2008, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Firstly we havent been to this track, nor have we seen any decent coverage of it. None of us really KNOW what the run-offs are like and what speeds the bikes will be running. My take on it however is a faithful one, because i don't believe the FIM would homologate, and the riders ok a circuit below standard. If the sfetey comission thought it was a risk, they wouldn't be willing to ride it, these guys aren't stupid.
Totally agree. I don't think they'd homologate Indy just for the sake of the American market and give away any safety concessions. Just look at all the tracks that have been dumped over the years due to safety concerns. Riders, teams and manufacturers have no interest in dangerous tracks any more. There's way to much money and investment at stake.
Totally agree. I don't think they'd homologate Indy just for the sake of the American market and give away any safety concessions. Just look at all the tracks that have been dumped over the years due to safety concerns. Riders, teams and manufacturers have no interest in dangerous tracks any more. There's way to much money and investment at stake.
Well I DO HOPE when it comes to d-day, nobody gets brake failure or collisions..'coz as we saw in the pics up there,there is definitely no run-off. As Jumkie said, the turn before this is a very slow left hander...but if someone gets brake failure or collisions, well you know what I mean...
I hope all of the riders will be doing just fine. And especially for De Puniet, he often crashed this season, so I really really hope he doesn't crash in Indy.
I hope all of the riders will be doing just fine. And especially for De Puniet, he often crashed this season, so I really really hope he doesn't crash in Indy.
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 8 2008, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Firstly we havent been to this track, nor have we seen any decent coverage of it. None of us really KNOW what the run-offs are like and what speeds the bikes will be running. My take on it however is a faithful one, because i don't believe the FIM would homologate, and the riders ok a circuit below standard. If the sfetey comission thought it was a risk, they wouldn't be willing to ride it, these guys aren't stupid.
Non of the riders who regularly speak to the Safety Commission have been there yet, but I guess Rossi's seen the pictures and now he's not too sure either:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Rossi also suggested that the layout of the track is also being looked at, with the close proximity of concrete walls of big concern,
"I've never been there, but they modified the last corner and Nicky (Hayden) was there. They tried to make the hairpin slower to avoid the risk (of hitting the wall) in case of a crash. But I don't know if it's enough. But we'll speak tomorrow to understand better."
LINK
Non of the riders who regularly speak to the Safety Commission have been there yet, but I guess Rossi's seen the pictures and now he's not too sure either:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Rossi also suggested that the layout of the track is also being looked at, with the close proximity of concrete walls of big concern,
"I've never been there, but they modified the last corner and Nicky (Hayden) was there. They tried to make the hairpin slower to avoid the risk (of hitting the wall) in case of a crash. But I don't know if it's enough. But we'll speak tomorrow to understand better."
LINK
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jul 7 2008, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Totally agree. I don't think they'd homologate Indy just for the sake of the American market and give away any safety concessions. Just look at all the tracks that have been dumped over the years due to safety concerns. Riders, teams and manufacturers have no interest in dangerous tracks any more. There's way to much money and investment at stake.
Son, have you seen Monza track? There is a stretch of steel railing with steel mesh fencing on both sides about equal distance to this smooth wall. WSBK has no problem racing there, surely the Italians know about safety.
Son, have you seen Monza track? There is a stretch of steel railing with steel mesh fencing on both sides about equal distance to this smooth wall. WSBK has no problem racing there, surely the Italians know about safety.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 10 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Son, have you seen Monza track? There is a stretch of steel railing with steel mesh fencing on both sides about equal distance to this smooth wall. WSBK has no problem racing there, surely the Italians know about safety.
Well if we are on the topic of comparing tracks, how about "The Isle of Man"
Guess you can't literllay call that a track though
Well if we are on the topic of comparing tracks, how about "The Isle of Man"
Guess you can't literllay call that a track though
