Brno Race Thread

[HiMyNameIsDan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Aug 19 2007, 04:10 PM) [snapback]85614[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
no one is better than rossi , stoner is riding better because he has the rite tools a man cant do the job without the tools, you cant expect rossi to work miracles on a shod machine, you should edit your post to riding better than rossi, not a better rider.


no, i wont, Stoner this year, is a better rider than Rossi.

 

[gsfan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Traverser @ Aug 19 2007, 05:20 PM) [snapback]85702[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
??? The only thing you got right was "yamaha and kawasaki". They both are using inline fours.


oops typo. sorry i meant they were the only ones using a I4.

I just thought of something that may make an I4 less of a racing engine. With my 90 degree 1L Vtwin I have and irregular firing order built into the design. This means it is a natural big bang engine. An inline 4 has a perfectly even firing order in natural form. Obviously, you can change the crank and get any firing order you want but what is better? The natural big bang or the contrived one? Take Suzuki, they run a 65% V4 which would have some degree of big bang built right in and with the 800's it may be all it needs without some radical crank and counter balancer to drive. The I4 would always have to have some crazy crank to get the big bang which at 19000rpm would be a ..... to contain in the case. So to raise the rpm they have to backoff the big bang crank angle and then the electronic system would have to control an 18k rpm screamer and "create" the big bang effect using complicated software and sensors. Result? Tire shredder. If Yamaha puts in pneumatic valves to see mid 19k rpm will they have even more trouble with the I4? If they field a new V4 they won't win for a while until the bugs are worked out so they have some troubling situation. Honda got the V4 right but didn't get the head right. Suzuki got the head right only after several massive engine failures but their V4 can hit the high rpms all day now. Kawi somehow makes the I4 work at high rpm but for how much longer and what is their rev limit, anyone know,?

Well? What do you think?

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krazy91 @ Aug 20 2007, 03:45 AM) [snapback]85851[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I had a banner?

I may be mistaken. I thought it was you who had that banner on their signature, back when we could post a picture at the bottom when the forum was cool. (just kidding, its' still cool.)

Yeah, I see that the race was fairly "processional". I just was taking a dig because if Rossi had won in Stoner style, I suspect it wouldn't have been so "boring". But again, maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[povol]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 20 2007, 06:35 PM) [snapback]86020[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I may be mistaken. I thought it was you who had that banner on their signature, back when we could post a picture at the bottom when the forum was cool. (just kidding, its' still cool.)

Yeah, I see that the race was fairly "processional". I just was taking a dig because if Rossi had won in Stoner style, I suspect it wouldn't have been so "boring". But again, maybe I'm mistaken.


Its funny how that works isnt it.One guy wins 5 strait world championships with many of the races being the same fashion as yesterday and the points decided with races to go.And what did we hear?Is he something or what,best that ever raced,He stomped the field,i hope he wins by 15 seconds next race.Watching him kill the field is so exciting.Now we have the same scenario,dominant season,8 second wins and all of a sudden GP racing is boring,im changing the channel,im taking a nap,they need to change the rules,BLAH BLAH BLAH.The only thing different is the name of the rider

 

[kieran]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Aug 21 2007, 09:49 AM) [snapback]86035[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its funny how that works isnt it.One guy wins 5 strait world championships with many of the races being the same fashion as yesterday and the points decided with races to go.And what did we hear?Is he something or what,best that ever raced,He stomped the field,i hope he wins by 15 seconds next race.Watching him kill the field is so exciting.Now we have the same scenario,dominant season,8 second wins and all of a sudden GP racing is boring,im changing the channel,im taking a nap,they need to change the rules,BLAH BLAH BLAH.The only thing different is the name of the rider

Yep, your exactly right!

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Aug 21 2007, 12:49 AM) [snapback]86035[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its funny how that works isnt it.One guy wins 5 strait world championships with many of the races being the same fashion as yesterday and the points decided with races to go.And what did we hear?Is he something or what,best that ever raced,He stomped the field,i hope he wins by 15 seconds next race.Watching him kill the field is so exciting.Now we have the same scenario,dominant season,8 second wins and all of a sudden GP racing is boring,im changing the channel,im taking a nap,they need to change the rules,BLAH BLAH BLAH.The only thing different is the name of the rider

sure does seem that way sometimes. to be honest i thought the race was great . stoner had it in the bag and rossi had no real chance to catch him so the race i was watching was further back, guintoli barros checa and i was rooting for guintoli

there are a lot of riders out there and ones waiting for a gp ride and there as hungry as hell i believe the eara of rossi or any rider dominating for more than a season or 2 is over, theres just to many things changing and to many great riders waiting.

 

[muzzy57]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 21 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]86041[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
sure does seem that way sometimes. to be honest i thought the race was great . stoner had it in the bag and rossi had no real chance to catch him so the race i was watching was further back, guintoli barros checa and i was rooting for guintoli

there are a lot of riders out there and ones waiting for a gp ride and there as hungry as hell i believe the eara of rossi or any rider dominating for more than a season or 2 is over, theres just to many things changing and to many great riders waiting.

Well said with this post & the couple above.

Sure the first few positions were static but that doesn't mean that it's not entertaining to watch these guys fettle their craft around the track, even when they're not carving each other up!

As I said in another post, I too love close racing but I'll simply take any racing as the next best thing. Can't wait for some of the flyaway rounds that are coming up to see if NH/JH/CV and ok, alright DP as well can continue their improvements.

If JB & the boys at Yamaha can't work some of their well known magic on #46 then Vale might even struggle to defend his 2nd position in the championship!

Not a criticism, just an observation. I know as well as anyone the calibre of rider that the doctor really is!

Regards, M

 

[alex29]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Aug 21 2007, 09:49 AM) [snapback]86035[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its funny how that works isnt it.One guy wins 5 strait world championships with many of the races being the same fashion as yesterday and the points decided with races to go.And what did we hear?Is he something or what,best that ever raced,He stomped the field,i hope he wins by 15 seconds next race.Watching him kill the field is so exciting.Now we have the same scenario,dominant season,8 second wins and all of a sudden GP racing is boring,im changing the channel,im taking a nap,they need to change the rules,BLAH BLAH BLAH.The only thing different is the name of the rider

Bloody spot on mate...
I think people forget to relies this.
Look i enjoyed the racing then and im enjoying it now

 

[thirdreich]

125 race - brilliant!
250 race - predicatable!
800 race - meh! Boring as ever! Should've watched paint dry instead.

 

[tinks]

Well, its not like the rest of us are pushing, its more like his fans are throwing in the towel. "its so boring..."
[/quote]


no i havent once said its boring or tht i have turned over. Its OBVIOUS rossi is struggling with his machinery and stoner must realise this. Jerry Burgess is right, to perform well with an 800 the bike, the rider AND the tyres must ALL be working effectively.

Rossi
Bike - struggling
Tyres - Not upto standard
Rossi - admittedly has some distractions

Stoner = Bike - Few probs in qual bt nothing affecting speed
Tyres - Perfect
Stoner - On a high from his wins so totally consistent and believing in himself

What i object to is when people make out like stoner + rossi are equal in tyres and machinery and that rossi just isnt a good racer.
I also think its bad how despite what rossi has achieved people say stoner is better than him from one season. Rossi has had amazing achievements for a decade once stoner does the same and shows he has staying power he would be worthy of this.

As i fan i can see why stoner fans are annoyed when people say the race is boring if stoner just takes off. Rossi has done that many times in the past but i also think overall a race can be boring even if rossi does it because people want their rider to have to fight for the win which is good entertainment.

I think if stoner really was fighting hard every race it would give people a better opinion of him, however, that is out of his control due to standards of other bikes.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Aug 21 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]86146[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well, its not like the rest of us are pushing, its more like his fans are throwing in the towel. "its so boring..."
no i havent once said its boring or tht i have turned over. Its OBVIOUS rossi is struggling with his machinery and stoner must realise this. Jerry Burgess is right, to perform well with an 800 the bike, the rider AND the tyres must ALL be working effectively.

Rossi
Bike - struggling
Tyres - Not upto standard
Rossi - admittedly has some distractions

Stoner = Bike - Few probs in qual bt nothing affecting speed
Tyres - Perfect
Stoner - On a high from his wins so totally consistent and believing in himself

What i object to is when people make out like stoner + rossi are equal in tyres and machinery and that rossi just isnt a good racer.
I also think its bad how despite what rossi has achieved people say stoner is better than him from one season. Rossi has had amazing achievements for a decade once stoner does the same and shows he has staying power he would be worthy of this.

As i fan i can see why stoner fans are annoyed when people say the race is boring if stoner just takes off. Rossi has done that many times in the past but i also think overall a race can be boring even if rossi does it because people want their rider to have to fight for the win which is good entertainment.

I think if stoner really was fighting hard every race it would give people a better opinion of him, however, that is out of his control due to standards of other bikes.


I have no argument with most of this . Rossi has given his fans every reason to support him over many years.

 

[CSCVAW]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Daniel @ Aug 21 2007, 02:11 AM) [snapback]85958[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
no, i wont, Stoner this year, is a better rider than Rossi.


Daniel...so NOW you admit and/or YOU surrender!!!...you said that Stoner is/was ....!!! I can’t understand you’re logic here...please explain...and Daniel you’re just like one of our aussie so called politicians (Pauline Hanson...what a ???...and that stands for...well I won't embarrass you mate!!!)

Cheers

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Aug 21 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]86146[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well, its not like the rest of us are pushing, its more like his fans are throwing in the towel. "its so boring..."
no i havent once said its boring or tht i have turned over. Its OBVIOUS rossi is struggling with his machinery and stoner must realise this. Jerry Burgess is right, to perform well with an 800 the bike, the rider AND the tyres must ALL be working effectively.

Rossi
Bike - struggling
Tyres - Not upto standard
Rossi - admittedly has some distractions

Stoner = Bike - Few probs in qual bt nothing affecting speed
Tyres - Perfect
Stoner - On a high from his wins so totally consistent and believing in himself

What i object to is when people make out like stoner + rossi are equal in tyres and machinery and that rossi just isnt a good racer.
I also think its bad how despite what rossi has achieved people say stoner is better than him from one season. Rossi has had amazing achievements for a decade once stoner does the same and shows he has staying power he would be worthy of this.

As i fan i can see why stoner fans are annoyed when people say the race is boring if stoner just takes off. Rossi has done that many times in the past but i also think overall a race can be boring even if rossi does it because people want their rider to have to fight for the win which is good entertainment.

I think if stoner really was fighting hard every race it would give people a better opinion of him, however, that is out of his control due to standards of other bikes.


Tinks, see the "Stoner thrives on Pressure" thread. Even Livio Suppo, the manager of the Ducati team, still acknowledges Rossi as the best current rider.

 

[CSCVAW]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Aug 21 2007, 09:49 AM) [snapback]86035[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its funny how that works isnt it.One guy wins 5 strait world championships with many of the races being the same fashion as yesterday and the points decided with races to go.And what did we hear?Is he something or what,best that ever raced,He stomped the field,i hope he wins by 15 seconds next race.Watching him kill the field is so exciting.Now we have the same scenario,dominant season,8 second wins and all of a sudden GP racing is boring,im changing the channel,im taking a nap,they need to change the rules,BLAH BLAH BLAH.The only thing different is the name of the rider


povol ur the so right!!!..and its so very true!!!...goodonyah mate for making such a relevant and substantial point!!!...totally agree with you!!!

 

[Checa_7]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 21 2007, 01:05 AM) [snapback]86041[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
sure does seem that way sometimes. to be honest i thought the race was great . stoner had it in the bag and rossi had no real chance to catch him so the race i was watching was further back, guintoli barros checa and i was rooting for guintoli

there are a lot of riders out there and ones waiting for a gp ride and there as hungry as hell i believe the eara of rossi or any rider dominating for more than a season or 2 is over, theres just to many things changing and to many great riders waiting.


I was just happy to see Checa fighting for a top 10 finish, lmao... and he beat Guinters btw

Although I am a Guintoli fan too.

 

[Checa_7]

There's no way you can even start comparing Stoner to Rossi IMO. Rossi has been winning races and titles for a decade now. He has 7 world titles. How anyone can compare someone to him from just 1 season is beyond belief. Plus, Rossi dominated 125's and 250... Stoner didn't.

I've never found a race so boring I've turned it off. You've got to admire anyone who can shoot off and beat 20+ top riders by 5-10 seconds. For me its the same now as when Rossi used to shoot off and win by miles (not as often btw..) Its just one rider being dominant, it isn't boring IMO.

As neither a Rossi or Stoner fan, and as someone who has never supported a top top rider, I'm just glad its been someone different for the past 2 seasons... one thing I was starting to get bored of was Rossi dominating year after year after year... good on Casey ( even though I don't like him)

 

[muzzy57]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Checa_7 @ Aug 22 2007, 01:44 AM) [snapback]86232[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
There's no way you can even start comparing Stoner to Rossi IMO. Rossi has been winning races and titles for a decade now. He has 7 world titles. How anyone can compare someone to him from just 1 season is beyond belief. Plus, Rossi dominated 125's and 250... Stoner didn't.

Howdy Mr Checa

Now while there might be one or two very ardent Stoner fans that are willing to make that claim, I think that I can speak for the majority of us in saying that nobody is even trying to compare their records because as you rightly pointed out, they are incomparable ( at this point in time ).

What we're all saying is that as far as raw speed & resistance to the pressure that Vale can exert in a race goes ( at this point in time ), Casey seems to have Vale's measure. Now whether this is possible due to bike, engine or rider is utterly irrelevent as it is the "package" that is all important ( see the thread where Livio Suppo speaks about this ).

I think that this is why Stoner fans are excited... that is there is someone (anyone) who can take on the great man & actually win!