I was wrong

MdubSTYLIE · Nov 11, 2015

Gaz said:
This in Dubs, many have praised CS for the feedback he provides as being incredibly details and technical (stories have existed of him 'feeling' an issue on the Ducati, going to the pits, they said no problem go out and keep circulating only for the motor to go pop within half a lap)

Gabbarini and Suppo have both praised his technical and development work (as it has been said have others) so the 'claims' about his developing poorly are seemingly incorrect

Personally, I suspect and recall reading that HRC went the Marquez way which did not work so pulled it back a bit, but that is supposition only as have not seen anything official

Edit. The issue with a lot of team mates of CS has been that they simply cannot ride as he does as he uses little electronics when compared to most others, thus when developing I suspect that his feedback is based on less electronics which when they are then used may upset the applecart a little

None of the people that praise his feedback are riders and Gabbarini and Suppo would never say anything negative about Stoner. The only one who can ride the bike he "develops" is him. But I have pointed out before that his best year on both hrc and ducati were his first. That doesn't speak well about his ability to develop.

JPSLotus · Nov 11, 2015

MdubSTYLIE said:
None of the people that praise his feedback are riders and Gabbarini and Suppo would never say anything negative about Stoner. The only one who can ride the bike he "develops" is him. But I have pointed out before that his best year on both hrc and ducati were his first. That doesn't speak well about his ability to develop.

He did pretty well the 2nd year on the Honda...the injury where he missed a few races pretty much did him in for a repeat title.

The RCV also didn't become a championship winner again after 2006 till Stoner got there. And it's been capable of winning the title every year since 2011.

So...yeah I'd say it speaks pretty well to his ability to develop.

hawkdriver · Nov 11, 2015

Ducati need to find 20-25 million to throw his way and give him anything he wants. Everyone is going to be having front end problems next year, for at least the first few races, now is the time to strike for Ducati.

Gaz · Nov 11, 2015

MdubSTYLIE said:
None of the people that praise his feedback are riders and Gabbarini and Suppo would never say anything negative about Stoner. The only one who can ride the bike he "develops" is him. But I have pointed out before that his best year on both hrc and ducati were his first. That doesn't speak well about his ability to develop.

Let me ask you this though ............ and I have in the past

When you are racing is it your job to develop a bike for others to ride fast, or for yourself?

As for the development skills, there have been riders who have praised the skills throughout the years but they have also said that they cannot ride like Stoner which makes it difficult for them.

It is a catch 22 I guess, his job (when racing) is to develop a bike that he can use and he did that quite well, it is not his issue that others cannot ride it to the level that he could and can.

Personally I will take the words of Gabbarini, Suppo, Nakamoto and a myriad of other sources that he can and does develop a brilliant bike technically and sure, I probably want to hear it but they are in the position to know.

Interestingly though (and throwing this back a little), CS was said to have also been pissed as he was being forced by HRC to test the open bike and not the RCV which was said to have been developed based on MM's feedback from 2014 and into 2015. That being the case, it aint Stoner's fault if the bike does not work as MM intended

Gaz · Nov 11, 2015

hawkdriver said:
Ducati need to find 20-25 million to throw his way and give him anything he wants. Everyone is going to be having front end problems next year, for at least the first few races, now is the time to strike for Ducati.

Won't matter ............. he has shown that dollars do not matter for him by knocking back the 20 million from HRC to continue one more year

I suspect for him it is challenge more than anything, plus of course that the Ducati he left is no longer the Ducati of today and as such the aggravation he felt with lack of progress may have eased somewhat

33 Coupe · Nov 11, 2015

hawkdriver said:
Ducati need to find 20-25 million to throw his way and give him anything he wants. Everyone is going to be having front end problems next year, for at least the first few races, now is the time to strike for Ducati.

Totally agree with you in regard to timing for Ducati. Everyone will be starting from scratch with the Michelin, so it is a real opportunity for Ducati to get onto close to level ground with everyone one else early next year. I think if they can develop the bike early enough to suit the new tyres, Stoner will be the difference between a race winning bike and one that still is close, but not quite there.

Jumkie · Nov 11, 2015

Given that the Mishitelin is giving everyone front end issues I'm not so sure it would be a slam dunk with Stoner, given his historical propensity to punish the front. I recall him being a critic of the "squishy" front Bstones, while others initially disagreed, then later were like, yeah he had a point as they tucked the front. Or when a rider said, no problem, then I think he replied, well you're not going fast enough to know. Which was hilarious.

michaelm · Nov 11, 2015

Jumkie said:
Given that the Mishitelin is giving everyone front end issues I'm not so sure it would be a slam dunk with Stoner, given his historical propensity to punish the front. I recall him being a critic of the "squishy" front Bstones, while others initially disagreed, then later were like, yeah he had a point as they tucked the front. Or when a rider said, no problem, then I think he replied, well you're not going fast enough to know. Which was hilarious.

He didn't like the Michelin front at LCR Honda before the control tyre in 2006 either.

#22 · Nov 11, 2015

Gaz said:
Why not join in the (daisy) chain?

I think ou'll find it's called "Pulling a train"

J4rn0 said:
Him who??

Casey Stoner, the guy who whooped your hero's ... on a bike that your hero then could bare even podium...

Gaz · Nov 12, 2015

#22 said:
I think ou'll find it's called "Pulling a train"
..

Not in this part of the world ............ the old daisy chain special

RCV600RR · Nov 12, 2015

Gaz said:
ThiNG in Dubs, many have praised CS for the feedback he provides as being incredibly detailED and technical (stories have existed of him 'feeling' an issue on the Ducati, going to the pits, they said no problem go out and keep circulating only for the motor to go pop within half a lap)

Gabbarini and Suppo have both praised his technical and development work (as it has been said have others) so the 'claims' about his developing poorly are seemingly incorrect

Personally, I suspect and recall reading that HRC went the Marquez way which did not work so pulled it back a bit, but that is supposition only as have not seen anything official

Edit. The issue with a lot of team mates of CS has been that they simply cannot ride as he does as he uses little electronics when compared to most others, thus when developing I suspect that his feedback is based on less electronics which when they are then used may upset the applecart a little

Casey's an excellent development rider - Honda said it, Ducati said it.

RCV600RR · Nov 12, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Marquez did blame Stoner for where the bike was at earlier this season.

Don't feel like searching for the article, but it's accurate.

This was when MM was blaming everything under the sun for the woes of the RCV.

He made some very sharp comments:

"Tras un año sin ir en moto está claro que (Stoner) no puede desarrollar nada”

"After a year without jumping on a bike, it's obvious that he can't develop anything".

Gaz · Nov 12, 2015

RCV600RR said:
He made some very sharp comments:

"Tras un año sin ir en moto está claro que (Stoner) no puede desarrollar nada”

"After a year without jumping on a bike, it's obvious that he can't develop anything".

And it was these comments that were said to have played a role in CS giving an FU to HRC

Would be interesting to know whether HRC followed CS with the full factory, or followed MM but followed CS with the Open class (as has been said elsehwere)

Either way, little love lost

Dr No · Nov 12, 2015

RCV600RR said:
He made some very sharp comments:

"Tras un año sin ir en moto está claro que (Stoner) no puede desarrollar nada”

"After a year without jumping on a bike, it's obvious that he can't develop anything".

Jums,
As a Spanish speaker, could you please search YouTube for this? We need to understand the colloquialisms and body language before we can take a position. It's teh rulez.

RCV600RR · Nov 12, 2015

Gaz said:
And it was these comments that were said to have played a role in CS giving an FU to HRC

Would be interesting to know whether HRC followed CS with the full factory, or followed MM but followed CS with the Open class (as has been said elsehwere)

Either way, little love lost

The problem with the proddy was the electronic package, from what I understand.

Gaz · Nov 12, 2015

RCV600RR said:
The problem with the proddy was the electronic package, from what I understand.

Based on Jack Millers comments at the testing (link posted earlier by #22 - MotoGP News - Valencia MotoGP Test: Miller: Smile on my face says it all) he absolutely agrees.

On riding the 2015 bike with 2015 electronics compared to the 2016 electronics

“I hear the other guys down there are having a problem with the 2016 electronics, but we've been on that .... all year, and we know what it's like,” he said.

“Nobody believed Nicky [Hayden], Eugene [Laverty] or I when we said it was not ....... working, and now look at it. Coming back to it is like giving candy to a kid to take it away again and watching him cry, but that's how it is.

The more I see and read I enjoy ............ love the non -political correctness

FWIW - just found this as well - was looking for the Miller interview when I came across it.

MM on CS and the Honda tests

Asked if Stoner's input had a significant bearing on the RC213V raced by Marquez and Dani Pedrosa, the young Spaniard added: “The thing with Casey and Honda is that he didn't make many, many tests; he test – I don't know exactly – but maybe three days, stop long time, so you know, for test rider you must follow all the items and all the things, but normally when he tests the bike the thing is that he was fast.”

p4p1 · Nov 12, 2015

Jack Miller is becoming a true Aussie hero. Shame he doesn't have Stoners talent. Would love to see Miller up the front and in the press conferences all the time.

RCV600RR · Nov 12, 2015

Gaz said:
Based on Jack Millers comments at the testing (link posted earlier by #22 - MotoGP News - Valencia MotoGP Test: Miller: Smile on my face says it all) he absolutely agrees.

On riding the 2015 bike with 2015 electronics compared to the 2016 electronics

“I hear the other guys down there are having a problem with the 2016 electronics, but we've been on that .... all year, and we know what it's like,” he said.

“Nobody believed Nicky [Hayden], Eugene [Laverty] or I when we said it was not ....... working, and now look at it. Coming back to it is like giving candy to a kid to take it away again and watching him cry, but that's how it is.

The more I see and read I enjoy ............ love the non -political correctness

FWIW - just found this as well - was looking for the Miller interview when I came across it.

MM on CS and the Honda tests

Asked if Stoner's input had a significant bearing on the RC213V raced by Marquez and Dani Pedrosa, the young Spaniard added: “The thing with Casey and Honda is that he didn't make many, many tests; he test – I don't know exactly – but maybe three days, stop long time, so you know, for test rider you must follow all the items and all the things, but normally when he tests the bike the thing is that he was fast.”

I love how Marquez's tone has tempered somewhat. Could CS have him a little worried?

I can't wait to see his wildcards.

Gaz · Nov 12, 2015

Dr No said:
Jums,
As a Spanish speaker, could you please search YouTube for this? We need to understand the colloquialisms and body language before we can take a position. It's teh rulez.

Marquez doesn't think Stoner can develop his bike - GPxtra

May be a lost in stranslation things as the full attributed comment is :-

When we tried the new bike in Valencia, we (Pedrosa and Marquez) didn’t like either of them,” Marquez told Spanish website motocuarto.com. “Then in Malaysia we tried different things, but because of the heat and humidity, the circuit has unique conditions, and can hide engine problems.”

During yesterday’s Nolan press conference, Stoner admitted he knew what the problem was, but wouldn’t expand further on what the issue was. When asked what he thought the problem was, Marquez responded by saying: “With regard to the evolution of the bike, it’s been made for the Japanese tester. When Stoner tested the bike, he identified the problem, but it’s clear after not riding a MotoGP bike for a year, you can’t develop anything.”

The reason I say maybe lost in translation is that in the quoted section, MM says that Stoner identified the issue which is, after all what he wast here for so the 'cant develop anything' part is confusing although the article does go on to state that teh day before, Stoner had said that MM was lucky in 2013 as he (CS) rate JL and DP better riders. So may hve been a bit ... for tt

Cool Blue · Nov 12, 2015

I guess you guys saw this at the time?

Stoner says Marquez is vulnerable in 2015 - Speedcafe

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#22

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