How will Marc Marquez do in 2024?

Little Walter said:

Odd . . . I ran across this photo on another forum but it was different.View attachment 14384

Click to expand...

You think its funny now but wait until I show up on your door step with it and a bag of Viagra.

MdubSTYLIE said:

So far the current duc is everyone's style. Marc seems to be an extremely adaptable rider. I have no doubt he will do well. It took him no time after the long lay off to get the most out of the honda. The dude knows how to make a bike go as fast as it can straight out of the box.

Click to expand...

MdubSTYLIE said:

Every rider on the grid that has talked about mm on ducati disagrees with you. What are you basing this off? He came back and rode while still suffering from an injury and won races. On a bike no one could regularly top 15 on. He is outperforming everyone on the honda by miles. So far everyone who has ridden the ducati has right away been competitive including his brother who has won this year. Something he never did on a honda. I feel like you are hoping MM will not be fast on the Duc but you are wrong. Pecco thinks Marc will top the time sheets at the Valencia test. Crutchlow thinks the other riders might as well settle for second.

Click to expand...

"A cornered animal is almost as dangerous as a wounded one"

This is what comes to mind with Marc. People have gotten complacent and also forgotten that he has had a horiffic injury & recovery process, during which he won 2 races with effectively 1 arm. The Honda is also a far worse bike that he is making it look. I get sick of the 'Alex Rins won a race on it' argument when you look at his results before and since. They conveniently forget the same 'race winning bike' shattered his leg into so many bits that he has missed half the season.

If Marc rides the Gresini at Valencia, feels as good about it as Alex did and has a winter to relax knowing he has a bike that not only will be competitive, but most importantly, that he enjoys riding, only a fool would write him off for contending for race wins. He will have a bike that is a known quantity with previous years setup data for all tracks, and very little (if any) 'development' work to worry about. I think the breath of fresh air this will give him will mean he is riding close to 2019 levels.

As others have said, the only curveball may be the ability for Gresini to support him later in the season if he is in for the championship but they can cross that bridge if and when they get to it.

No other champion shince 2019 has shown anywhere near the performance, and consistency of that season. They are all busy trying to hand each other the title and people forget, Marc finished 1st or 2nd in EVERY. SINGLE. RACE bar one in 2019.

No way would Mir, Fabio, Pecco or Martin be close to him in that scenario.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Fair enough. To me it comes down to two things. 1. I do thing Marc is a magician on a bike. I do believe he will find the speed and race pace extremely quickly. 2. I don't think any of the current crop of contenders has the consistency to keep up with Marc even if it takes him a bit to get up to speed.

In the past a bad day for Marc when on a good bike is 4th. No matter the conditions other than a fall 4th is about as bad as it gets for him. If he finds that level of consistency he will be extremely hard to beat.

Click to expand...

Exactly. And I think on a sorted yr old Ducati, that consistency will b easy to find.

Little Walter said:

Odd . . . I ran across this photo on another forum but it was different.View attachment 14384

Click to expand...

Man, sounds to me like Mdub is having a blast! I'd take that as a compliment.

gui22a said:

No, not all riders disagree. Pecco does not and even Marquez does not! Also, many riders are being political while talking about the subject. Crutchslow's opinion and .... have no difference. Riders are just riders, nothing special with their ideas.

And I'm not hoping MM goes slow. I actually liked and praise his courage to move to Gresini and hope he gets well, but it won't a be piece of cake by no means. If you pay some attention to what happened to Rossi after Ducati fiasco, he took quite some time to begin being fast again on the M1 and that is a bike Rossi knew every bolt. And there is no reason to believe with MM will be any different. Topping Valencia test times means nothing as many riders go super well on these tests but do poorly when the season starts, but I cast doubt about MM topping the rank in that test. Testing is testing, racing is racing. He will get to learn how to setup the bike (Desmo16 is know by its complexity), get used to his new team and mechanics and engineers, learn how to manage the tires on the Ducati, a subject that has shown to take some time whatever the rider, learn how to take advantage on the new soft tire for a quick shot, etc. A lot of new things.

MM is not a magician and personally I never thought he's done any better than Stoner did (speaking about talent, not numbers). MM will not last forever as the best. In fact, right in 2017 when he was 25 years old, riding a very good package, he struggled to beat Dovi, an average rider, on its top form. Dovi managed to beat him and give him a run in many tracks. So, how fast will be a 31 years old Marquez with a completely new team and bike, against the likes of Martin, Pecco, Bezecchi, maybe Bastianini and the Aprilias growing?

I'm not talking MM won't be competitive, he will, but fight for the title is another totally different matter. Take it easy. Be aware for not getting into big frustration mate.

Click to expand...

The degree of support from Ducati is what matters. Otherwise he is well in contention for being the greatest rider of all time, a status the others in the field don't approach at this point in time. I agree with Shuhei Nakamoto that Casey Stoner was a "genius on a bike", and that "when he is happy he is so fast", and considered he was as fast as anyone ever in his two title winning seasons, but he had to wind himself up very tight to perform like that, and no way could he ever have sustained such excellence over the period MM did, while it is as natural as breathing for MM. MM also thrived on the attention from Rossi and the Valeban, which pretty much took any joy in the sport away from Casey. What makes you think Dovi wasn't on a significantly superior bike in 2017 btw ?, a bloke with some insight into the matter in Gigi Dall'Igna certainly thought he was. Interesting you should mention the 2017 season, the first or second year of the control ECU which has neutered the Honda with the current engine design as Nakamoto pretty much predicted it would.

If Mick Doohan could win titles at the ages of 31, 32 and 33, probably with a less full recovery from severe injury than MM has finally managed, I don't see why MM can't, so Rossi's 7/9 being equaled or surpassed is still well in prospect I fear.

Plus Doohan nearly lost a leg and still came back in an era where medical technology isn't what it is today.

michaelm said:

The degree of support from Ducati is what matters. Otherwise he is well in contention for being the greatest rider of all time, a status the others in the field don't approach at this point in time. I agree with Shuhei Nakamoto that Casey Stoner was a "genius on a bike", and that "when he is happy he is so fast", and considered he was as fast as anyone ever in his two title winning seasons, but he had to wind himself up very tight to perform like that, and no way could he ever have sustained such excellence over the period MM did, while it is as natural as breathing for MM. MM also thrived on the attention from Rossi and the Valeban, which pretty much took any joy in the sport away from Casey. What makes you think Dovi wasn't on a significantly superior bike in 2017 btw ?, a bloke with some insight into the matter in Gigi Dall'Igna certainly thought he was. Interesting you should mention the 2017 season, the first or second year of the control ECU which has neutered the Honda with the current engine design as Nakamoto pretty much predicted it would.

If Mick Doohan could win titles at the ages of 31, 32 and 33, probably with a less full recovery from severe injury than MM has finally managed, I don't see why MM can't, so Rossi's 7/9 being equaled or surpassed is still well in prospect I fear.

Click to expand...

The 2017 bike wasn't absolutely the best bike on the grid. It was a good bike, but It had ups and downs depending on the track it was on. The best bike on some tracks (Qatar, Austria, Mugello), a mediocre/average bike in others. The Desmo GP17 still had big mid-corner speed problems which prevented Dovi from doing better in twisty tracks (like PI, Aragon, Jerez, Sachsenring, LeMans, Assen, etc.) and tracks with low traction like Austin. On the other hand, the Honda RCV '17 was a very competitive bike, I consider still better balanced than the Ducati GP17 as even Pedrosa managed to win two races and did great in many others.

I don't think MM is more talented than Stoner. Actually, there is many other riders as good as MM. The difference is MM determination to win. Guy is much more determined to win than any other rider I have ever seen. His number of crashes is the biggest proof of my point, even when Honda was a very good machine he crashed a lot, a result of his wish to win at all cost. As time passes, his body-brain skills are naturally diminishing and even if he keeps his determination to win, that won't be enough to beat the new generation in the race for the 2024 title. Maybe with more experience with the new bike he can do enough to grab the title in 2025 but next year I really don't think so.

gui22a said:

The 2017 bike wasn't absolutely the best bike on the grid. It was a good bike, but It had ups and downs depending on the track it was on. The best bike on some tracks (Qatar, Austria, Mugello), a mediocre/average bike in others. The Desmo GP17 still had big mid-corner speed problems which prevented Dovi from doing better in twisty tracks (like PI, Aragon, Jerez, Sachsenring, LeMans, Assen, etc.) and tracks with low traction like Austin. On the other hand, the Honda RCV '17 was a very competitive bike, I consider still better balanced than the Ducati GP17 as even Pedrosa managed to win two races and did great in many others.

I don't think MM is more talented than Stoner. Actually, there is many other riders as good as MM. The difference is MM determination to win. Guy is much more determined to win than any other rider I have ever seen. His number of crashes is the biggest proof of my point, even when Honda was a very good machine he crashed a lot, a result of his wish to win at all cost. As time passes, his body-brain skills are naturally diminishing and even if he keeps his determination to win, that won't be enough to beat the new generation in the race for the 2024 title. Maybe with more experience with the new bike he can do enough to grab the title in 2025 but next year I really don't think so.

Click to expand...

Determination alone doesn't win championships. Thats ambition without talent. All the riders have determination to win what they lack is Marc's skill and confidence. On Stoners best days he was as good or better than Marc, unfortunately we never got to see that first hand. But on Marc's worse days he is still better than most or all of the field. We all know as you get older skills naturally diminish but I still don't understand why you are saying Marc has lost his edge. You are also kind of saying he was never better than other riders but his track record says otherwise. Michael has pointed out riders into their 30's have won championships after bad injuries and you ignore it. It has been pointed out that he still dominates the other hondas you ignore it and just say he is older. Really skills start to diminish in the mid to late 30's. Hand eye can hang on longer than sprinting and jumping. Even then athletes can play into their late 30's.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Determination alone doesn't win championships. Thats ambition without talent. All the riders have determination to win what they lack is Marc's skill and confidence. On Stoners best days he was as good or better than Marc, unfortunately we never got to see that first hand. But on Marc's worse days he is still better than most or all of the field. We all know as you get older skills naturally diminish but I still don't understand why you are saying Marc has lost his edge. You are also kind of saying he was never better than other riders but his track record says otherwise. Michael has pointed out riders into their 30's have won championships after bad injuries and you ignore it. It has been pointed out that he still dominates the other hondas you ignore it and just say he is older. Really skills start to diminish in the mid to late 30's. Hand eye can hang on longer than sprinting and jumping. Even then athletes can play into their late 30's.

Click to expand...

First, our athletic performance peeks at around 25 years old. After that it's only downwards. That does not mean you can't compete at high level, cause normally experience compensates for what has been lost on the skill's side.

Second, I don't know why you are saying I'm saying he can't win another title. Did I? Actually I DID say I believe he will fight for the crown in 2025 IF (and only if) he stays with Ducati, but "you ignore it", lol.

I just don't see MM fighting for the title already next year. And believe me or not, I told my father down there in the beginning of 2013 that MM would fight for the title already in his debut year. But now that is a totally different scenario. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm used to have a very good insight about MotoGP. By the time MM have sorted out all that he needs to be consistently winning back to back races or podiums, it will be too late for the 2024 title.

And don't fool yourself. Even MM is doing that to test himself. Even him is questioning himself if he's still the old Marc, so much so he's already considering quitting at 2024 in the case of his Gresini adventure has failed.

gui22a said:

The 2017 bike wasn't absolutely the best bike on the grid. It was a good bike, but It had ups and downs depending on the track it was on. The best bike on some tracks (Qatar, Austria, Mugello), a mediocre/average bike in others. The Desmo GP17 still had big mid-corner speed problems which prevented Dovi from doing better in twisty tracks (like PI, Aragon, Jerez, Sachsenring, LeMans, Assen, etc.) and tracks with low traction like Austin. On the other hand, the Honda RCV '17 was a very competitive bike, I consider still better balanced than the Ducati GP17 as even Pedrosa managed to win two races and did great in many others.

I don't think MM is more talented than Stoner. Actually, there is many other riders as good as MM. The difference is MM determination to win. Guy is much more determined to win than any other rider I have ever seen. His number of crashes is the biggest proof of my point, even when Honda was a very good machine he crashed a lot, a result of his wish to win at all cost. As time passes, his body-brain skills are naturally diminishing and even if he keeps his determination to win, that won't be enough to beat the new generation in the race for the 2024 title. Maybe with more experience with the new bike he can do enough to grab the title in 2025 but next year I really don't think so.

Click to expand...

If you look at who Dall'Igna wanted on that bike it wasn't Dovi. As I recall he thought he had a winning bike well before 2017 if only he could get his test rider to ride it rather than Dovi and Iannone, and even wanted Lorenzo both originally, and then despite his initial poor results transitioning from having only ridden a Yamaha in the premier class, on the bike ahead of Dovi. I gather Gigi has significant control over who rides his bike now.

I don't know what sport you were watching during Pedrosa's career, but he was always capable of winning 2 races or more per season, no matter whether on a 990, 800 or 1000 Honda, and no matter who his team-mate including Casey Stoner. On one of his weekends (such as Sepang 2015 a race which you possibly do recall) he was untouchable by anyone including Stoner and Lorenzo, or Rossi in his pomp for that matter, it was just that those weekends were not sufficiently frequent as well as him tending to break or shatter rather than bounce when he fell off a bike even when he was young. He doesn't have far and away the most premier class wins of anyone who hasn't won a title for no reason.

I wasn't much of an MM fan then myself but you seem to have forgotten his moto 2 exploits on a spec bike on which he could charge to the front from the rear of the field after a grid penalty. He also in 2017 sealed the deal regardless despite the title being close run, which Rossi whom I presume you do rate failed to manage the two times he was in a close title race, so hardly an argument against MM in regard to one of only 2 riders to have won more premier class titles than he has thus far.

For next year the only questions for me are whether he will be on a good enough bike/get enough support from Ducati, perhaps with a small caveat that the ride height and aero might have moved the bike away from his riding style, although he was able to dominate on moto 2 and 125 bikes and is the only rider other than KRSR to win the premier class title as a rookie, rather arguing for his adaptability. I agree with MDub who knows a thing or two about elite athletic performance that his reflexes are unlikely to have deteriorated significantly and as previously see no reason why they should be worse than Mick Doohan's at the same age, particularly since said reflexes resembled those of a scalded cat in the first place. His issues with the broken arm seem to have been finally totally resolved, again as opposed to Mick who had to work around an ongoing/not completely resolved physical problem. So it comes down to whether he will be mentally affected by the injury saga, which doesn't seem to be the case, and his determination which you yourself assign as his greatest asset.

You guys are a lot more knowledgeable than I am but I'll offer my layman's observations. Bastiannini was able to get a couple of podiums as a rookie on a 2 year old (2019) Ducati. Last year he won multiple races on a year old (2021) bike. Bezzecchi has won multiple races on a year old bike. Marini is having success with it too. You all make great points but it seems to me the 2023 Ducati is one hell of a bike and next year it will be a year old bike in the hands of MM. As someone already posted, the 2023 will come with all the data as well. Will he win the championship? Probably not IMO but I have to believe he will be in the thick of it week in and week out. A lot of speculation has been the aero packages takes away his ability to push the front end in a way nobody else can. But what if the aero and the GP23 all come together for him? Pecco and Martin are incredible but what happens if Marc starts beating them? Pecco has shown he can come up with the goods when he needs them but he's also crumbled at critical moments. Testing is testing but I'll be paying close attention to what happens at Valencia.

2024 nearly everyone including Marc Marquez will get a shock of their lives when top Ducati riders kick his budt.

Marc Marquez is just a ONE TRICK PONY who had long passed his sell by date.

He won't be able to adapt to new riding style of aero dependant Ducati, be prepared to see plenty of crashes when this little rider becomes desperate to prove he is the best, when he obviously is nowhere near the best.

Oh look, a new poster who is clearly a Marquez hater. You won't do well here unless you change your attitude.

Instead of spouting words in capital letters, maybe tell us why, you think Marquez is a one trick pony? Shouting it does not make it so. This is a guy who:

Would have won the title in his first season in Moto2 were it not for injury.
The ONLY rider to win a MotoGP world title in his debut season
The ONLY rider to win a title against Jorge Lorenzo, Valentino Rossi and Dani Pedrosa
Won titles on control tyres (something Rossi never did), control ECU.
He has been the only one able to adapt and rider the Honda to anywhere near consistent competitiveness. Cal Crutchlow rode alongside him for 5 seasons and said he said his data, understood what he was doing but could never replicate it. Hardly the sign of a ONE TRICK PONY as you put it.

Finally, when questioned, nearly every one of his peers (Bagnaia and Quartarao to name 2, who are both world champions) have said Marc will adjust to the Ducati just fine and will 'cause them trouble' next yr. They know far more about Marc and the Ducati than you or I ever will.

If you want to come here for childish Marquez bashing, then kindly .... off as this isn't the place for you. Plenty of us here are not Marquez fans, but to try and deny he is one of (if not THE) greatest talent of his generation, then you are delusional.

Birdbird said:

2024 nearly everyone including Marc Marquez will get a shock of their lives when top Ducati riders kick his budt.

Marc Marquez is just a ONE TRICK PONY who had long passed his sell by date.

He won't be able to adapt to new riding style of aero dependant Ducati, be prepared to see plenty of crashes when this little rider becomes desperate to prove he is the best, when he obviously is nowhere near the best.

Click to expand...

Right!!! Because Alex Marquez is way better than Marc. No way will he be able to adapt to a bike his brother could day 1. Every rider and expert is wrong, you are right. My only question is, are you Uccio or Valentino? Birdbird I have two birds for you too.

#22 said:

Oh look, a new poster who is clearly a Marquez hater. You won't do well here unless you change your attitude.

Instead of spouting words in capital letters, maybe tell us why, you think Marquez is a one trick pony? Shouting it does not make it so. This is a guy who:

Would have won the title in his first season in Moto2 were it not for injury.
The ONLY rider to win a MotoGP world title in his debut season
The ONLY rider to win a title against Jorge Lorenzo, Valentino Rossi and Dani Pedrosa
Won titles on control tyres (something Rossi never did), control ECU.
He has been the only one able to adapt and rider the Honda to anywhere near consistent competitiveness. Cal Crutchlow rode alongside him for 5 seasons and said he said his data, understood what he was doing but could never replicate it. Hardly the sign of a ONE TRICK PONY as you put it.

Finally, when questioned, nearly every one of his peers (Bagnaia and Quartarao to name 2, who are both world champions) have said Marc will adjust to the Ducati just fine and will 'cause them trouble' next yr. They know far more about Marc and the Ducati than you or I ever will.

If you want to come here for childish Marquez bashing, then kindly .... off as this isn't the place for you. Plenty of us here are not Marquez fans, but to try and deny he is one of (if not THE) greatest talent of his generation, then you are delusional.

Click to expand...

Let him stay. Its been a long time since we had a forum huckleberry.

Birdbird said:

2024 nearly everyone including Marc Marquez will get a shock of their lives when top Ducati riders kick his budt.

Marc Marquez is just a ONE TRICK PONY who had long passed his sell by date.

He won't be able to adapt to new riding style of aero dependant Ducati, be prepared to see plenty of crashes when this little rider becomes desperate to prove he is the best, when he obviously is nowhere near the best.

Click to expand...

Oh, it's that kiwi Marquez hater guy who LARPs as an octogenarian in the comments section of The Race and Motorsportmagazine. Good thing I can ignore you here.

I am most interested in how MM adapts to the Ducati, it makes things interesting, let's wait and see before drawing to any conclusions.

I hope MM does well on the mighty Duke, the 2024 season could be a real treat if he does.

DavidSim said:

I am most interested in how MM adapts to the Ducati, it makes things interesting, let's wait and see before drawing to any conclusions.

I hope MM does well on the mighty Duke, the 2024 season could be a real treat if he does.

Click to expand...

As Mdub said, how has Alex adapted this yr?

Then realise that Alex is a 2 time WC who has had podiums this yr. Then realise that Marc is an EIGHT time WC.

#22 said:

Oh look, a new poster who is clearly a Marquez hater. You won't do well here unless you change your attitude.

Instead of spouting words in capital letters, maybe tell us why, you think Marquez is a one trick pony? Shouting it does not make it so. This is a guy who:

Would have won the title in his first season in Moto2 were it not for injury.
The ONLY rider to win a MotoGP world title in his debut season
The ONLY rider to win a title against Jorge Lorenzo, Valentino Rossi and Dani Pedrosa
Won titles on control tyres (something Rossi never did), control ECU.
He has been the only one able to adapt and rider the Honda to anywhere near consistent competitiveness. Cal Crutchlow rode alongside him for 5 seasons and said he said his data, understood what he was doing but could never replicate it. Hardly the sign of a ONE TRICK PONY as you put it.

Finally, when questioned, nearly every one of his peers (Bagnaia and Quartarao to name 2, who are both world champions) have said Marc will adjust to the Ducati just fine and will 'cause them trouble' next yr. They know far more about Marc and the Ducati than you or I ever will.

If you want to come here for childish Marquez bashing, then kindly .... off as this isn't the place for you. Plenty of us here are not Marquez fans, but to try and deny he is one of (if not THE) greatest talent of his generation, then you are delusional.

Click to expand...

All of his titles were down to having the greatest Honda bike during that period.

Just see what happens when Marc Marquez doesn't have the best bike?
No wins in two years.
Continuous nonstop crashes and getting so easily injured like a broken cheap toy made in Third World Country.

This year's honda is a decent and a winning bike.
Alex Rins proved that in Austin. It is Marc's lack of talent preventing him from winning.


If he is so talented like a God why did he crash and injured himself so badly in Jerez 2020?

Birdbird said:

All of his titles were down to having the greatest Honda bike during that period.

Just see what happens when Marc Marquez doesn't have the best bike?
No wins in two years.
Continuous nonstop crashes and getting so easily injured like a broken cheap toy made in Third World Country.

This year's honda is a decent and a winning bike.
Alex Rins proved that in Austin. It is Marc's lack of talent preventing him from winning.


If he is so talented like a God why did he crash and injured himself so badly in Jerez 2020?

Click to expand...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I can't stop laughing. It is so good Rins has left the team and the bike after one season. Please keep going you entertain me my cheap little toy made in Asia.

Birdbird said:

This year's honda is a decent and a winning bike.
Alex Rins proved that in Austin. It is Marc's lack of talent preventing him from winning.

Click to expand...

One win doesn't prove a bike is working well, it does show that at that particular track the bike worked with the riding style of one rider

#22 said:

Would have won the title in his first season in Moto2 were it not for injury.
The ONLY rider to win a MotoGP world title in his debut season

Click to expand...

Mmmmm . . . while they didn't call it "MotoGp" back then, Kenny Roberts did in fact win the title his first year in the premiere class, and did so three years in a row.