Honda threatens to quit MotoGP

mad mick said:

Dorna should use the NRL's marketing team. Rugby Leauge is probably THE most boring, mindless and pointless sport on the planet. But somehow, all the troglodytes are glued to the rubbish every weekend religiously.

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It's all about the sweaters.

cliché guevara said:

please properly read the post i wrote first. also,spare me the rossi/stoner ......... for the love of god, please, just one ....... thread that is not hijacked by how awesome one rider and how ...... the other is. and you call yourself fan?yeah right.

if you're IQ is above room temperature (that is in Celsius) you'll know that R&D is the expensive part of the equation.

its not that expensive to produce more units of something that is already developed.



i'm too tired to rephrase again and again what i wrote already. if all you can think after reading is "its not confirming the 800cc era, it must be directed against stoner!.... you bopper!" i don't know why i take the time to debate instead of rolling up

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......... Reproducing MotoGP bikes is expensive. If it is not then why are they changing the rules? Surely the cheapest way to proceed is to not change anything and then they can just keep replicating. Why are they charging 4 million for a satellite bike?



It is so pathetic to claim an IQ advantage when it is you that has failed to read a post but has simply perceived it. My post was all about riders making the sport what it is not the bikes. Who gives a .... what name is put in to make the point.



What is more ....... pathetic is thinking that you can talk about MotoGP and not talk about riders. Motorbike racing is about the riders because that is what makes the difference. .... you calling me on whether I am a fan. I am so much a fan that I haven't been able to drag myself to this place because talking about such pathetic .... that you and the like waste your time dribbling on about with out a fresh thought is IQ killing recreation, whilst my beloved sport is being ruined. You are nothing but a product of what you think you appose. It is ........ dribble like your post that is killing the sport. Now I have added to it. I am also so much a fan that MotoGP is nearly dead for me. I can bearer to be witness to the raping that it is getting at the hands of the current governance. I say bring back the 800's because at least they were real race bikes at the edge of performance. As a fan I am sad to say that they will perhaps be the last bikes that we can say that about.



Oh and by the way, go and look at post 7 & 9 you hypocritical .........

Cliche is right, mental is wrong. End of !

Shows how deep you think. Cliche is right because he thinks bikes as fast as 990's are cheap to make? Wonder why they spend millions making those bikes then. Ok so mass producing them will make them cheaper? How many 100, 200? Because apparently the 6 riders with 2 bikes at any one time in 2011 wasn't cheap so we know 12 functioning bikes plus the test bikes is not enough.



.... me and you think I am IQ challenged. No lets support the mental giant who's best advice is bring back the 500's. Morons.

funny that you feel insulted by my post.if you feel called out when i say anybody with an IQ above "blablabla" it says a lot

maybe we can discuss this further when you've got a bit of an understanding in economics.you know, elementary stuff like fixed cost,unit costs,sunk cost and so on.

the expensive part is like i said research and development. if you think its cheap to bring a new swingarm,constantly refine electronics,chassis,engine to a grand prix just because they only need to make a couple you're very mistaken.

We can go head to head on economics all day long and I know I will keep up hope you can. What is comical is that you think economics has anything to do with it.

concerning my posts on page 1, just because stoner (although one of my all time favorite riders ) does not agree with rev limits does not mean i can't.

+ i think i've made it clear for anybody to read that i want to see these guys skill. from my perspective : no traction control = even more advantage for the really good riders like stoner.



i don't care for super expensive stuff on the bikes that may make them go a bit faster , but take away from rider ability and ruin the show because of increased cost

ok enough, i'm too old for this ..... building two enzo ferraris and keep developing them is cheaper than manufacturing 10 old bmw m3s.

you're right. the bikes should ideally be reduced in capacity to 600cc and even less fuel so that we can marvel at hondas new ways to get the most out of it and dominate the grid. and hell yes, more TC please so that its the pinnacle of racing. only bad thing about it there would be no need for a stoner on it, its machines we want to see , not humans.

and why worry about the cost? just walk across the next rainbow you see. there will be a pot of gold at the end of it



point made clear?

don't know why you feel insulted, thats your fault if you feel that way. my beef here is that you most certainly did not discuss rule changes or any thing technical when you (surprise!) brought up rossi vs stoner again as if that had anything to do with this

Mental Anarchist said:

Shows how deep you think. Cliche is right because he thinks bikes as fast as 990's are cheap to make? Wonder why they spend millions making those bikes then. Ok so mass producing them will make them cheaper? How many 100, 200? Because apparently the 6 riders with 2 bikes at any one time in 2011 wasn't cheap so we know 12 functioning bikes plus the test bikes is not enough.



.... me and you think I am IQ challenged. No lets support the mental giant who's best advice is bring back the 500's. Morons.

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Its not that 990's were cheap, but more a case 800's were far more expensive. Get it?

for the record they could even keep the 800s (although those will always be more expensive to run fast than a 1000cc),its the trying to get 1% more performance thats so expensive.how many millions are wasted each year trying to be half a second faster by making it more wheels in line and thus boring

cliché guevara said:

for the record they could even keep the 800s (although those will always be more expensive to run fast than a 1000cc),its the trying to get 1% more performance thats so expensive.how many millions are wasted each year trying to be half a second faster by making it more wheels in line and thus boring

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And all this expense during the 800 era without huge sponsorship $$$. Dorna couldn't have picked a worse time to change the formula so drasticly and to think they did it to save money and make racing safer Alarm bells should have rung when Team KR pulled out.

chopperman said:

And all this expense during the 800 era without huge sponsorship $$$. Dorna couldn't have picked a worse time to change the formula so drasticly and to think they did it to save money and make racing safer

Alarm bells should have rung when Team KR pulled out.

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100% agreed.

changing the formula is always expensive, especially in this case.

i know its a buzzkill to all tech heads but a development freeze is in my opinion the only way to go with the current formula and situation.

only thing thats really being developed is electronics anyway and those kill the show.so why not get rid of them and put the guys on machines where only their talent will make them go faster.how long before tc is so refined that you just put it on stoner mode and twist it?

i know its a rhetorical question why rules are not changed, its about the money in the short/mid term and thats all that matters when it provides your paycheck. but i refuse to back off my stance that in the longterm a rider based championship is the only way to go

[quote name='Dr. Sugar Nuts' timestamp='1339671416' post='319156']



Unlike you who never quit being funny. Thank God you always hang in there.

[/quote]





http://www.youtube.c...e&v=rRQijskAMp4

It would be very interesting to see some sorta chart that lists the changes made to motogp an the costs associated to those changes. I really hope they leave the rules alone for a few years. The next few years are really going to be telling as to motogp's lifespan.

Mental Anarchist said:

Shows how deep you think. Cliche is right because he thinks bikes as fast as 990's are cheap to make? Wonder why they spend millions making those bikes then. Ok so mass producing them will make them cheaper? How many 100, 200? Because apparently the 6 riders with 2 bikes at any one time in 2011 wasn't cheap so we know 12 functioning bikes plus the test bikes is not enough.



.... me and you think I am IQ challenged. No lets support the mental giant who's best advice is bring back the 500's. Morons.

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800s have over 120 sensors on the bikes, transmissions that are so expensive they can't be put on Sat bikes, the introduction of high revving four strokes that require the use of pneumatic valves. Those same four strokes are using metals that have been banned by F1 because they are so expensive and you wonder why the price to lease a Sat bike has more than doubled. The engines have to also last a lot longer than they ever had to before.

All this talk that is insinuating that you can get race teams/manufacturers to stop R&D to find more speed and therefore contain costs. Has never happened before and will never happen unless they get handed a bike at the start of FP1 and they hand it back at the end of the race. I am not happy for MotoGP to become spec racing but it seems that this is what you lot seem to be happy for Dorna to drive towards.



Honda is threatening to quit because of BS rule changes that just keep on coming to try and cheapen the sport. They are not threatening to leave because it is too expensive.



Suzuki and Kawasaki didn't leave because it was too expensive. They left because they couldn't generate revenues to pay for it.



I do not and will not agree that MotoGP is too expensive. In my opinion the numbers are small, in fact I am surprised it is so cheap. The best riders cost more than the best bikes. Maybe there should be a salary cap too.

cliché guevara said:

100% agreed.

changing the formula is always expensive, especially in this case.

i know its a buzzkill to all tech heads but a development freeze is in my opinion the only way to go with the current formula and situation.

only thing thats really being developed is electronics anyway and those kill the show.so why not get rid of them and put the guys on machines where only their talent will make them go faster.how long before tc is so refined that you just put it on stoner mode and twist it?

i know its a rhetorical question why rules are not changed, its about the money in the short/mid term and thats all that matters when it provides your paycheck. but i refuse to back off my stance that in the longterm a rider based championship is the only way to go

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This is what Dorna is trying to bring you, the lower rev limit alone is going to drastically reduce the price of the bikes. The factories aren't bitching and whining because of money, that's a bunch of ......... They're bitching because the playing field is gonna get leveled and the advantage they've had by simply being able to outspend everyone else is going to be taken away. By making a hard rev limit and an electronics limit Dorna have basically made a huge cap on spending. I don't know if you watch American Football but the saying, "any given sunday", is true you never know who is gonna win and the game is extremely competitive because of the salary cap, everyone has a fair chance.

cliché guevara said:

100% agreed.

changing the formula is always expensive, especially in this case.

i know its a buzzkill to all tech heads but a development freeze is in my opinion the only way to go with the current formula and situation.

only thing thats really being developed is electronics anyway and those kill the show.so why not get rid of them and put the guys on machines where only their talent will make them go faster.how long before tc is so refined that you just put it on stoner mode and twist it?

i know its a rhetorical question why rules are not changed, its about the money in the short/mid term and thats all that matters when it provides your paycheck. but i refuse to back off my stance that in the longterm a rider based championship is the only way to go

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I'm not a techhead, more the usual throwback to older was better, like Jimi Hendrix vs Justin Beiber, but this nostalgia for the good old days has no place in motorsport. If they freezed the tech in the 80's, what would we be watching now? Crappy slow bikes. Evolve or die.

chopperman said:

Here you go again. No rules were bent for rossi. HIS ....... CONTRACT WAS UP !!! If any rules were bent it was for Pedrosa. If you will continue to lay on the hate, at least spout fact.

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I was talking about the changing nature of rules to suit the darlings of the sport. GP went to a spec tire as part of the aim to suit Rossi. That whole series of events was dominated by one mans overwhelming influence. And yeah, Pedro was dastardly part of that whole sequence.



http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120614wsx.htm

birdman said:

I'm not a techhead, more the usual throwback to older was better, like Jimi Hendrix vs Justin Beiber, but this nostalgia for the good old days has no place in motorsport. If they freezed the tech in the 80's, what would we be watching now? Crappy slow bikes. Evolve or die.

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agreed but there is a fine difference between the bikes of that time and the bikes of today.

i mean really, how much faster can these bikes get? we're already at a point where 330kph is no problem and corner speeds are dangerously high.

no need for them to go 360 and even faster in the corners before they crash, people (for example spies )have been calling for tyres that curb performance for quite some time. the grandstands are already quite far from the track, no need to move them back further because larger run off is needed sooner than later



also i think you could make a point that with the current tech on the bikes the spectacle goes backwards. like i said, and yes its an exaggeration, but how long before tc is so refined you just pin it and go faster than any human can.imagine if stoner came on the scene in 5 years,maybe we would have never known his genius. let alone systems like wheelie control.good thing abs has always been forbidden,given how good some systems already work i have no doubt that if that had been developed over the past 20 years we would have never seen great braking duels. same breaking point for everyone on the same system.

i think you mistake my position for nostalgia where in fact i just want to see the championship more focused on the riders and their ability which the current machinery prevents them from showing in some areas and that will only get worse since i think in terms of outright power and grip the machines reached a plateau. as long as there is no real innovation going on (electric or whatever) there is no need for spiraling cost.