Honda threatens to quit MotoGP

cliche guevara · Jun 13, 2012

Talpa said:
Yes, but the rule is in place. Why was it not bent for Spies? Or Cal? Or Bradl?

don't know why you quoted my post, i find the rule bending and favoritism ridicolous as well oO

one question : i regulary read that the rookie rule was introduced because of spies?? at the time he came to gps yamaha had rossi and lorenzo in their factory team, i really don't get how he could have ended up in the factory team. no way they would have kicked out lorenzo or rossi to make room for spies. maybe a 3rd bike ?

i thought it was a given to park spies on a tech3 ,regardless of a rookie rule

Talpa · Jun 13, 2012

cliché guevara said:
don't know why you quoted my post, i find the rule bending and favoritism ridicolous as well oO

one question : i regulary read that the rookie rule was introduced because of spies?? at the time he came to gps yamaha had rossi and lorenzo in their factory team, i really don't get how he could have ended up in the factory team. no way they would have kicked out lorenzo or rossi to make room for spies. maybe a 3rd bike ?

i thought it was a given to park spies on a tech3 ,regardless of a rookie rule

Sorry mate, twas a miss-click!

Yes, the Spies issue was interesting at the time, nobody really questioned it as Yamaha had the two titans, and Spies wanted to stay there-so Tech 3 was the only option. However, Spies did have similar hype around him as what Marquez now enjoys, Spies could have sort a/the Honda Factory seat, or satellite Factory effort-but most of those seats were also well filled.

It certainly was a dumb rule when introduced-of this there is no doubt........but why only bend this one Ezy? There are a Myriad of dumb rules which should be bent first! Funny though, bending any of the other obscene regs would not be in Honda's best interests, and would favor the others far more.........like Tyres, Fuel and Engines.......

hawkdriver · Jun 13, 2012

cliché guevara said:
don't know why you quoted my post, i find the rule bending and favoritism ridicolous as well oO

one question : i regulary read that the rookie rule was introduced because of spies?? at the time he came to gps yamaha had rossi and lorenzo in their factory team, i really don't get how he could have ended up in the factory team. no way they would have kicked out lorenzo or rossi to make room for spies. maybe a 3rd bike ?

i thought it was a given to park spies on a tech3 ,regardless of a rookie rule

I think he would have ended up on a tech 3 anyway but supposedly the rule was put in place to help the non factory teams, it was so they could get good riders too even if only for a year. Ezy better not bend the rules for this kid/honda but I wouldn't mind if Honda gave him a better bike as long as Dorna isn't paying for it. It's no different than Dovi and Cal paying for their own brakes to be more competitive. I would like to see a cap put on the lease bikes entry price with the individual teams being able to upgrade the bikes if they could come up with the money. I also think the sport would be better if the parts that are on the factory bikes had to be part of the lease deal then the teams could decide on extra's as their budget allows. All the bikes would then have all the same vital parts and the racing would be closer. CS has cried that we have two different classes in GP now, but it's always been like this with the factory and non factory bikes. It's a given that non factory teams wont win unless we get rain or lots of crashes.

chopperman · Jun 13, 2012

cliché guevara said:
don't know why you quoted my post, i find the rule bending and favoritism ridicolous as well oO

one question : i regulary read that the rookie rule was introduced because of spies?? at the time he came to gps yamaha had rossi and lorenzo in their factory team, i really don't get how he could have ended up in the factory team. no way they would have kicked out lorenzo or rossi to make room for spies. maybe a 3rd bike ?

i thought it was a given to park spies on a tech3 ,regardless of a rookie rule

Good point. I think rossi forced dorna to implement the rule so spies had to go to tech3. It gave rossi the leverage needed to get more pay and better parts from yamaha.

Just though i would steal berry ......... thunder.

Talpa · Jun 13, 2012

chopperman said:
Good point. I think rossi forced dorna to implement the rule so spies had to go to tech3. It gave rossi the leverage needed to get more pay and better parts from yamaha.

Just though i would steal berry ......... thunder.

didn't Rossi force Bush into Iraq too?

birdman · Jun 13, 2012

cliché guevara said:
you know the problem with my financial situation is not that i spend .... loads of money on stupid ...., just that i don't make enough of it. silly me , all i have to do is find a job that pays a 6 figure sum.same goes for motogp ,they just need to find sponsors and crowds that pump in more money

i see your point, and for the record : i don't think motogp marketing is perfect.but you have to acknowledge that the frivolous spending in gps needs to be curbed. i don't want to hijack this thread to discuss once more what could be done to expand motogp to new markets (i'm sure there are thousands of companies and people in bangladesh waiting to pour millions into the money spending machine that is gp). but i really wanted to get this off my chest, its comforting but nontheless false belief that there is a magic pot of gold somewhere to be found that can sustain the spending insanity

We have this little local game called rugby league. Its played and watched by a only few people compared to other sports, not exactly international. They are currently negotiating a TV rights deal reportedly in the vicinity of $1.2 billion. Thats a lot more than the previous deal. Where is the money coming from?

By comparison what have DORNA been up to, Ezy?

cliche guevara · Jun 14, 2012

i don't know birdman, but when i hear that tv contracts are not even desired anymore and given to pay tv right away i know that motogp isn't a very hot commoditiy in the eyes of tv stations. we have great coverage in germany , but if its during the football season, more people turn in to see a lengthy talkshow about football. result : the races are only streamed on the internet.

its the same with superbikes who supposedly offer the greater excitement. its on live sometimes, but help us god if there is a swimming,tennis or even ....... dart competition

also , costs in rugby is very low. you can get the best possible deal and be happy with the money.

regardless of tv contracts and possible new revenue, the money factor in racing should be reduced.

why? because money ruins racing. extreme example but i'd be far more happy if the BS would stop and in turn the whole grid would line up on stock fireblades without electronics and slipper clutches

rather lose bikes that are a couple of seconds faster and be able to make rules that focus on rider ability.

digger · Jun 14, 2012

1.2 billion? what the ....??? who the hell is going to pay that for nrl? i love the game, but c'mon.....

cliche guevara · Jun 14, 2012

its just my opinion, but if everybody realized that motogp is a niche sport and that the backbone of the spectacle is us fans and not energy drinks it would change dramatically.

its not about lap times or speed records for the hardcore fans that support the championship over decades and introduce their friends and family to it. its about spectacular riding ,close competition between the best in the world.

if dorna would realize this they could tell the manufacturers to f-off to superbikes if they want to showcase their brands

nothings being developed in gps that has any use outside of racing,NOTHING.so there is no good reason to .... up the spectacle and hinder many riders chances because it needs to be big money.

just think about it : the whole grid on 500cc 2 strokes or whatevery machinery thats fast and scary to mortals, who keeps or loses his seat is solely determined by performance.no sponsors to be made happy.no ........ rule making.just racing. other than a few energy drink bimbos and a little less awe about partial throttle fuel efficiency, what would be lost?

birdman · Jun 14, 2012

digger said:
1.2 billion? what the ....??? who the hell is going to pay that for nrl? i love the game, but c'mon.....

According to Laurie Dailey Foxtell and Channel 9 will pay 1.2 billion over ??? years for exclusive tv rights. He said they will use the money to invest in the growth of the sport. What does motogp invest in the growth of their sport?

Mental Anarchist · Jun 14, 2012

To me it is all about lap times and speed. Anyone (well anyone except me) can slide a bike at moto2 speeds but very few can slide it at MotoGP speeds. Slowing the bikes down makes it easy for average world level riders to ride the bikes. I don't want to watch average riders. I want to watch the best riders on the best most advanced machines and that is what the pinnacle of any sport is all about. Arguably the best rider ever is leaving because of the dumbing down of the sport so it is very real that we will end up with only average riders. There are endless levels of competition below the pinnacle that offers the other things like close racing and fairing bashing etc and I can easily go and watch that if that is what turns me on.

birdman · Jun 14, 2012

cliché guevara said:
i don't know birdman, but when i hear that tv contracts are not even desired anymore and given to pay tv right away i know that motogp isn't a very hot commoditiy in the eyes of tv stations. we have great coverage in germany , but if its during the football season, more people turn in to see a lengthy talkshow about football. result : the races are only streamed on the internet.

its the same with superbikes who supposedly offer the greater excitement. its on live sometimes, but help us god if there is a swimming,tennis or even ....... dart competition

also , costs in rugby is very low. you can get the best possible deal and be happy with the money.

regardless of tv contracts and possible new revenue, the money factor in racing should be reduced.

why? because money ruins racing. extreme example but i'd be far more happy if the BS would stop and in turn the whole grid would line up on stock fireblades without electronics and slipper clutches

rather lose bikes that are a couple of seconds faster and be able to make rules that focus on rider ability.

I liked both forms of rugby more back when they were semi professional. Back in the day we had the Ella brothers, Campese, a whole bunch of others that would be unrecognisable in todays game because they would have had to hit the weights and who knows what else to put on 30 kg of muscle to compete. Thats the nature of professional sports. Today a centre or winger looks similar to the forwards because they all weigh over 100kg. Its a different game but the players actually forced the change looking for any advantage they could find, same with electronics in Motogp. I prefered the days of Gardner vs Lawson v Schwantz, I found it totally captivating to watch what they could do on wild 500cc bikes, but those days will never return.

cliche guevara · Jun 14, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
To me it is all about lap times and speed. Anyone (well anyone except me) can slide a bike at moto2 speeds but very few can slide it at MotoGP speeds. Slowing the bikes down makes it easy for average world level riders to ride the bikes. I don't want to watch average riders. I want to watch the best riders on the best most advanced machines and that is what the pinnacle of any sport is all about. Arguably the best rider ever is leaving because of the dumbing down of the sport so it is very real that we will end up with only average riders. There are endless levels of competition below the pinnacle that offers the other things like close racing and fairing bashing etc and I can easily go and watch that if that is what turns me on.

fair enough, i don't discount different opinions.

to make it clear though , it does not need to be moto2 speeds.i'm sure it would not be a problem to provide bikes that are just as fast as the last 990cc bikes at very reduced cost if they're "mass produced".

also, getting rid of rider aides does not help the average rider but lowers the cost.

and if we're talking why only a handful of riders can push these bikes to the limits, the big factor is tyres IMO

if we let the current field ride on 2002 rc211vs on michelins of the time, do you think barbera would suddenly be up there with stoner and lorenzo?

no way

Dr. Sugar Nuts · Jun 14, 2012

MdubSTYLIE said:
Do they only hire ...... quitters over at honda.

Unlike you who never quit being funny. Thank God you always hang in there.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 14, 2012

So 990's were cheap? I guarantee you they were the most expensive bikes around at the time. I can also guarantee you that Yamaha were spending what ever they could on what ever they could come up with to beat Honda.

I also guarantee you that if he was so inclined Rossi could have won most of the races he won by Stoner margins.

The 990 era was great not because of the bikes but because of the showmanship, confidence and superior skill of one Valentino Rossi. If Stoner had the same showmanship and confidence he could so easily beat his competitors there would have been 2o or so better (for those who only think a good race is a close race) races in the 800 era.

Dr. Sugar Nuts · Jun 14, 2012

chopperman said:
Here you go again. No rules were bent for rossi. HIS ....... CONTRACT WAS UP !!! If any rules were bent it was for Pedrosa. If you will continue to lay on the hate, at least spout fact.

chopperman said:
Good point. I think rossi forced dorna to implement the rule so spies had to go to tech3. It gave rossi the leverage needed to get more pay and better parts from yamaha.

Just though i would steal berry ......... thunder.

I can't think why you would stoop to stealing thunder from down under. You are pretty darn thunderous yourself. Especially when you type in big many CAPS with lots of exclamation marks. Makes me shiver all over.

cliche guevara · Jun 14, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
So 990's were cheap? I guarantee you they were the most expensive bikes around at the time. I can also guarantee you that Yamaha were spending what ever they could on what ever they could come up with to beat Honda.

I also guarantee you that if he was so inclined Rossi could have won most of the races he won by Stoner margins.

The 990 era was great not because of the bikes but because of the showmanship, confidence and superior skill of one Valentino Rossi. If Stoner had the same showmanship and confidence he could so easily beat his competitors there would have been 2o or so better (for those who only think a good race is a close race) races in the 800 era.

please properly read the post i wrote first. also,spare me the rossi/stoner ......... for the love of god, please, just one ....... thread that is not hijacked by how awesome one rider and how ...... the other is. and you call yourself fan?yeah right.

if you're IQ is above room temperature (that is in Celsius) you'll know that R&D is the expensive part of the equation.

its not that expensive to produce more units of something that is already developed.

i'm too tired to rephrase again and again what i wrote already. if all you can think after reading is "its not confirming the 800cc era, it must be directed against stoner!.... you bopper!" i don't know why i take the time to debate instead of rolling up

mad mick · Jun 14, 2012

birdman said:
According to Laurie Dailey Foxtell and Channel 9 will pay 1.2 billion over ??? years for exclusive tv rights. He said they will use the money to invest in the growth of the sport. What does motogp invest in the growth of their sport?

Dorna should use the NRL's marketing team. Rugby Leauge is probably THE most boring, mindless and pointless sport on the planet. But somehow, all the troglodytes are glued to the rubbish every weekend religiously.

mad mick · Jun 14, 2012

birdman said:
I liked both forms of rugby more back when they were semi professional. Back in the day we had the Ella brothers, Campese, a whole bunch of others that would be unrecognisable in todays game because they would have had to hit the weights and who knows what else to put on 30 kg of muscle to compete. Thats the nature of professional sports. Today a centre or winger looks similar to the forwards because they all weigh over 100kg. Its a different game but the players actually forced the change looking for any advantage they could find, same with electronics in Motogp. I prefered the days of Gardner vs Lawson v Schwantz, I found it totally captivating to watch what they could do on wild 500cc bikes, but those days will never return.

Yeah, who doesn't miss those days.. Sport (in general) was different. It was all about the racing then. But now, the sport seems to be losing its way. Sure, we all have to move forward with the times - things will never be as before. But we shouldn't have to sell our souls either. MotoGp is losing its soul and being turned into "entertainment" (and it aint that entertaining these days). Its becoming homogenized like any other top level sport, where eventually all sportsmen will appear the to be clones of each other and have to have false gimmicks to appear to be different and appear to possess a personality. Garder, Lawson, and Schwantz expressed their personalities in the way they rode. That was enough for most people. That's my old fashioned two cents worth...

baturro · Jun 14, 2012

The rookie rule was made to bring "name riders" to satellite teams so they in turn could tempt bigger and more sponsors to the team. Worked great with Spies because when he was picked up by Tec3 he was sponsor free for the most part. Atleast there was no huge main sponsor that had backed him in the pee-wee league.

Marquez has Repsol investing in him loads. Now keep in mind that both Honda Sat teams have their own Petrol sponsors, Elf for LCR and Castrol with Gresini. Won't sit well with a sponsor to tell them, sorry don't want your money this year they boy has his own but next year sign the check as boy is going to the real Repsol.

That is why this is a "special" case.

It's not just Honda against this rule being kept.

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Honda threatens to quit MotoGP

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Mental Anarchist

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