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MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

MadMax said:
I'm not sure 'pissed away' is the right term. Stoner didn't want to participate in the situation that was offered to him so he left.

Yes, he could have had success and won races and thrilled fans but under the circumstances on offer (a racing show, rather than a race) he didn't want it.

Having someone like him leave is collateral damage to the business Dorna is running. It's a financial loss to them for someone like Stoner to leave but making the series such that he wanted to participate would have cost them even more money.

It's a business cost, losing some good guys because of how you've decided to run the business.

Completely true. However he hasn't left. He chooses to "test" to prove to himself he is still fast. If he really despises Dorna then why do that? Why feel the need to prove something? And then after honda slighted him why feel the need to move back to another manufacturer? His decisions and words never align.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Great post Dub, you summed up my thoughts.
Like I said before, I feel that Stoner fans are largely made up of Rossi haters and Australians. I dont buy this true riders love Stoner bullocks. True riders seem to gravitate toward Rossi, for whatever reason but I suspect they admire his grit and savvyness.
I feel that its an inarguable fact that Stoner squandered away a generational talent. Im not looking at the personal side of this argument. Hot wife, kid, bla,bla, bla. Looking at the talent and what he did and could have done with it is a disappointment. 9.9 out of 10 professional athletes would not have backed away and laid up like he did. Im happy that the dudes happy. He seems like a good bloke and retirement at 27 seems like a good gig but you cant argue that he pissed away something special.

Hey Jk you know who Stoner reminds me of? Can you think of anyone who attacks the media every time they mention him?

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

Nice to see the Frick and Frack road show didn't waste any time coming here to .... up this topic with their irrational hate for Stoner, and not wasting any time trying to absolve themselves of responsibility by blaming others.

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
Completely true. However he hasn't left. He chooses to "test" to prove to himself he is still fast. If he really despises Dorna then why do that? Why feel the need to prove something? And then after honda slighted him why feel the need to move back to another manufacturer? His decisions and words never align.

Sometimes I wonder if you ever actually read anything from Stoner because it seems you make a lot of ........ unfounded claims as this topic has quickly proven.

Stoner likes testing because it's a chance to ride the bikes which he still enjoys doing, but he isn't forced to meet all of the obligations that would be required if he were still a full-time rider in the series. If you were going to get paid decent money to do several test sessions a year without the BS, I think you would do the exact same thing. He's still as fast as anyone on the grid in spite of not having raced since Valencia 2012. Pretty special stuff even if your myopia blinds you from appreciating it.

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

#22 said:
Excellent post JPS. "Greatness" is a definition that varies based on opinion. For some, it's raw figures and why many people consider Schumacher the greatest F1 driver of all time. However, like Rossi, he had preferred winners status in the sport.

For me, greatness is how a sportsman reacts in an equal playing field. Most importantly, how they react to team mates. Stoner, like Aytron Senna, never once veto'd a team mate because they were confident enough in their abilities and feared no rival on equal terms. Prost, Mansell, Schumacher..all of them veto'd team mates just as the great Valentino Rossi has. While people call him a moaner, how many times did Stoner whine about a team mate or team treatment? How many times did he threaten to quit if he didn't get preferential treatment or tyres?

As I say, it all depends on how you interpret greatness.

One thing I do need to correct you on is Senna did veto one teammate. Lotus wanted to pair Senna with Derek Warwick for the 1986 season which Senna vetoed. Warwick claims he could have matched Senna or something to that effect, which is among one of the many reasons why I can't stand Derek Warwick. He was a talented driver, but has vastly overestimated what his skill was relative to Ayrton Senna. The reason Senna vetoed Warwick had to do with his belief Lotus by 1986 could not focus on two drivers and he wanted the team firmly behind him in the garage to give him the best shot of winning races...hence how they wound up with Johnny Dumfries in the second Lotus-Renault. Warwick's claims are so patently absurd and while he would have done better than Dumfries did, he would still have been run over by Senna. Otherwise I do agree with you. The greats of F1 and 500cc/GP never feared their teammates. Most did not care about how strong a teammate might have been and wanted the challenge as seen with Rainey and Koscinski who he demolished.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Sometimes I wonder if you ever actually read anything from Stoner because it seems you make a lot of ........ unfounded claims as this topic has quickly proven.

Stoner likes testing because it's a chance to ride the bikes which he still enjoys doing, but he isn't forced to meet all of the obligations that would be required if he were still a full-time rider in the series. If you were going to get paid decent money to do several test sessions a year without the BS, I think you would do the exact same thing. He's still as fast as anyone on the grid in spite of not having raced since Valencia 2012. Pretty special stuff even if your myopia blinds you from appreciating it.

If I quit a sport league because it was a sham I most certainly would not feel the need to test for it just because I like to go fast. I could do that someplace else. Thats my problem with his whole career. Not with what he says but his actions don't match his words.

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
If I quit a sport league because it was a sham I most certainly would not feel the need to test for it just because I like to go fast. I could do that someplace else. Thats my problem with his whole career. Not with what he says but his actions don't match his words.

Easy for you to say since you'd never be given the opportunity to do such a thing, or let alone be in a position to make that kind of a decision.

He isn't testing for the league, he is testing for the team itself. What they do with his feedback is entirely up to the team. If GP was conducted on a spec motorcycle, and Dorna was paying him to test it, then your criticism would actually have weight to it.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Easy for you to say since you'd never be given the opportunity to do such a thing, or let alone be in a position to make that kind of a decision.

He isn't testing for the league, he is testing for the team itself. What they do with his feedback is entirely up to the team. If GP was conducted on a spec motorcycle, and Dorna was paying him to test it, then your criticism would actually have weight to it.

Yea for a team he felt slighted by after leaving a team he felt slighted by after leaving a league he felt slighted by. You see the pattern here?

JohnnyKnockdown · Jul 5, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Easy for you to say since you'd never be given the opportunity to do such a thing, or let alone be in a position to make that kind of a decision.

He isn't testing for the league, he is testing for the team itself. What they do with his feedback is entirely up to the team. If GP was conducted on a spec motorcycle, and Dorna was paying him to test it, then your criticism would actually have weight to it.

Are you forgetting that last year, you were critical of his testing

JohnnyKnockdown · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
Yea for a team he felt slighted by after leaving a team he felt slighted by after leaving a league he felt slighted by. You see the pattern here?

Let me just answer that to save JP some time. Dorna, Rossi, Dorna Rossi, Dorna Rossi.

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Are you forgetting that last year, you were critical of his testing

Indeed because that was the fan in me speaking because I was still thinking a wild card might be possible.

Letting go of all of that stuff, it's his life and I think he made the right decision at the end of the day. It is possible to hold two opposed ideas/thoughts in one's head believe it or not.

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Let me just answer that to save JP some time. Dorna, Rossi, Dorna Rossi, Dorna Rossi.

How about you save everyone time and just log out of this forum altogether since we know when your buddy starts posting about Stoner, it's like a bat signal for you to crawl out of whatever Floridian swamp you're currently making home in, so you can join in on the Stoner hate. Old Piggyback Johnny never misses an opportunity to rail about everyone else and what they talk about while offering no real points of discussion other than the same tired .... that you always offer.

You two should start another Crutchlow topic so you guys can spend all day talking about when Crutchlow might crash since that's all that passes for high-brow discussion those of your ilk.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

JPSLotus said:
How about you save everyone time and just log out of this forum altogether since we know when your buddy starts posting about Stoner, it's like a bat signal for you to crawl out of whatever Floridian swamp you're currently making home in, so you can join in on the Stoner hate. Old Piggyback Johnny never misses an opportunity to rail about everyone else and what they talk about while offering no real points of discussion other than the same tired .... that you always offer.

You two should start another Crutchlow topic so you guys can spend all day talking about when Crutchlow might crash since that's all that passes for high-brow discussion those of your ilk.

Right because if it ain't Stoner then its not a hate crime. This thread was off the hinges making fun of Calbert in the beginning. But question Stoner and you start another world war.

JohnnyKnockdown · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
If I quit a sport league because it was a sham I most certainly would not feel the need to test for it just because I like to go fast. I could do that someplace else. Thats my problem with his whole career. Not with what he says but his actions don't match his words.

Who said it was a sham? Stoner? No. Jlo? No. Any other rider? No. Rossi haters. Ding, ding, ding, we have a whinner

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
Right because if it ain't Stoner then its not a hate crime. This thread was off the hinges making fun of Calbert in the beginning. But question Stoner and you start another world war.

You can question Stoner, but try making a strong argument that can't be picked apart by me typing with one hand while thinking about other things mate.

JohnnyKnockdown · Jul 5, 2017

JPSLotus said:
How about you save everyone time and just log out of this forum altogether since we know when your buddy starts posting about Stoner, it's like a bat signal for you to crawl out of whatever Floridian swamp you're currently making home in, so you can join in on the Stoner hate. Old Piggyback Johnny never misses an opportunity to rail about everyone else and what they talk about while offering no real points of discussion other than the same tired .... that you always offer.

You two should start another Crutchlow topic so you guys can spend all day talking about when Crutchlow might crash since that's all that passes for high-brow discussion those of your ilk.

As usual, when opinions dont align with yours you attack. Im not biting. Go find someone else to start a flame war with. Like Dub said we got a month of down time.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

JPSLotus said:
You can question Stoner, but try making a strong argument that can't be picked apart by me typing with one hand while thinking about other things mate.

Please we all know you scroll google with one hand while you type with the other. Your opinions are not your own.

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
As usual, when opinions dont align with yours you attack. Im not biting. Go find someone else to start a flame war with. Like Dub said we got a month of down time.

Who is attacking?

I'm just pointing out that for a guy who whines about everyone else and what they discuss on here, you offer shockingly little alternatives in the way of discussion.

Why is that?

JPSLotus · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
Please we all know you scroll google with one hand while you type with the other. Your opinions are not your own.

My opinions are not my own?

Do explain this to me.

Keshav · Jul 5, 2017

payne by name said:
I guess I would think that because of his inability to make it count at Assen or Germany. He's a good rider but I've watched him for too long not really step up when it counted. Hell didn't he have a factory Honda ride and didn't make that count either?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him do well but it's rare to watch get him get down and dirty in a scrap for the lead and hence why I think that even in his position I can't help but feel that he'll want it to fall into his lap rather than be prepared to roll up his sleeves and actually fight for the championship. A bit like Pedrosa.

He did make it count on the Honda. Wiki his results and you'll see he was consistently 2nd or 3rd in points at any time in the season when he was on a Honda. There was much speculation at the time, that Honda was hobbling his bike to keep him from hurting Pedrosa's chances at the championship because when Dani was out sick, Dovi was always faster. To say he didn't step up, last week would be the same as saying Vinales and Rossi were slacking at the races where they were nowhere near the front. To suggest that any rider who's been this close to the front just isn't trying is ludicrous. I also don't agree about Pedrosa. He is very much held back by his diminutive stature. Look at all the injuries he's suffered and all the times he's heroically ridden in pain. Very much the opposite of waiting for the championship to be dropped in his lap.

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