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michaelm · Jul 4, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
I was just ....... with jps although my opinions do align with what I was saying. I have no problem with arguments that include stoner based on his abilities but I hate how everything is so Rossi/stoner dominate. Stoner is talented but he is no Marc Marquez.

My obsession with Stoner whilst extreme is still probably less than yours.

In this case I was having an actually fairly cordial discussion with MV about Ducati and Ducati riders past and present, to which Rossi and Stoner were I believe somewhat relevant, and what I said was pretty much a direct quote from a previous post of his regarding the current Ducati riders, in relation to Jorge iirc, but which was also somewhat applicable to Dovi imo. If you don't like such a discussion feel free not to join it.

For the umpteenth time, Stoner's performance on the Ducati doesn't make him a greater rider than Rossi, 2 against 7 titles says something, but he remains the yardstick for Ducati riders, particularly since he can still wander into the pits, hop on the thing and set very competitive lap times, as I said harking back to the previous post of MV's this season.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

michaelm said:
My obsession with Stoner whilst extreme is still probably less than yours.

If you really think that than you don't read my posts very much. I countlessly skip and laugh at your stoner dribble posts. He's nothing but dust in the wind to me. Hardly a blip on the gp radar. Stoner was great on the bike with a mediocre record what more is there to say?

BarryMachine · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
If you really think that than you don't read my posts very much. I countlessly skip and laugh at your stoner dribble posts. He's nothing but dust in the wind to me. Hardly a blip on the gp radar. Stoner was great on the bike with a mediocre record what more is there to say?

Well given that Stoner is the greatest most talented fastest mgp rider of all time ....... it mustnt say much of all the other champions.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

Gaz said:
Give me the old Doohan, Rainey, Schwantz, Lawson type of days and interviews any day over the current crop of athletes (and this is all sports as well really) that seem to follow a script that ensures nothing controversial gets mentioned and that all sponsors get thanked.

Agree that in many ways DORNA is responsible as (and I do cut some slack here) it is their job to build and promote the sport (and happy to say they are not doing a great job here) and so of course having sanitised statements and having control over what is said suits their business approach.

It is all up a somewhat interesting issue though, as when in the past people have spoken out in the recent times many are derided whilst some are applauded as it all seems to depend on what, who and of course how it gets said. Good old media speak as they say.

.... it, go back to two smoke beasts and let the men (and women) decide

Right dorna has the same job as any business executive. To grow the business and make it successful. If you think that the fairness of rules has anything to do with that ya'll are crazy. Its unfortunate that Rossi is a ...... bag but I do understand why they center there business around him. I take great pleasure in the fact that as hard as they try , they haven't been able to get him his 10th.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

BarryMachine said:
Well given that Stoner is the greatest most talented fastest mgp rider of all time ....... it mustnt say much of all the other champions.

2nd most talented. The only thing that pisses me off about Casey Stoner is his choice to dodge Marc Marquez. A true competitor a true goat would never do that. He's fast but not great. You could never convince me otherwise.

BarryMachine · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
2nd most talented. The only thing that pisses me off about Casey Stoner is his choice to dodge Marc Marquez. A true competitor a true goat would never do that. He's fast but not great. You could never convince me otherwise.

No, Stoner would have whooped Marquez's record if he had been straight on the repsol the moment he went to mgp. And he is more talented on the bike.

Imagine Marquez on the Duc. ...... need i say more

and Stoner made rossi go to Duc. Just because rossi was so incenced that Stoner was so good. Dont see rossi trying to go Honda to try and prove he is as good as Marquez.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

BarryMachine said:
No, Stoner would have whooped Marquez's record if he had been straight on the repsol the moment he went to mgp. And he is more talented on the bike.

Imagine Marquez on the Duc. ...... need i say more

No I can't imagine Marc on the Duc, he's not dumb enough to throw his career away for money. He enjoys racing. However I can't say one way or the other if he could ride it or not. Stoner was a freakish weirdo on the bike and he rode the freakishly weird bike successfully once. Okay great but that doesn't make him better. And we will never know if Stoner would have wooped Marcs ... and thats on Stoner. But I highly doubt Stoner could have competed with Marc and the same machine I don't think anyone can.

Gaz · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
Right dorna has the same job as any business executive. To grow the business and make it successful. If you think that the fairness of rules has anything to do with that ya'll are crazy. Its unfortunate that Rossi is a ...... bag but I do understand why they center there business around him. I take great pleasure in the fact that as hard as they try , they haven't been able to get him his 10th.

Mate, I work in business (deal with it daily) so I fully know and actually understand exactly what DORNA are doing and why, I simply do not agree that (as I have said many times) DORNA putting all of your eggs in the one basket is not the smartest business model, but I also readily acknowledge that with Rossi they have a very popular golden goose (the reasons for which are debatable by many).

In business, as unpalatable as it may sound, there are no rules (short of illegalities) and in top level sport the illegalities do not matter as people will do whatever they can to win as winners are grinners as the dollars roll on in.

Likewise with my full understanding of DORNA, I do not begrudge Rossi for milking all he can get as there is little doubt that all athletes what everything that they can get out of their pursuit whilst they can get it and whilst they want to get it, so full power to VR there as if DORNA allow it, then the fault is not Rossis (and I have said that many times as well - god, in the one thread I agree with MV and now seemingly defend VR - what the f*ck is wrong).

Keshav · Jul 5, 2017

michaelm said:
My obsession with Stoner whilst extreme is still probably less than yours.

In this case I was having an actually fairly cordial discussion with MV about Ducati and Ducati riders past and present, to which Rossi and Stoner were I believe somewhat relevant, and what I said was pretty much a direct quote from a previous post of his regarding the current Ducati riders, in relation to Jorge iirc, but which was also somewhat applicable to Dovi imo. If you don't like such a discussion feel free not to join it.

For the umpteenth time, Stoner's performance on the Ducati doesn't make him a greater rider than Rossi, 2 against 7 titles says something, but he remains the yardstick for Ducati riders, particularly since he can still wander into the pits, hop on the thing and set very competitive lap times, as I said harking back to the previous post of MV's this season.

When you compare 2 to 7 you're talking stats. Math is irrefutable. That being said, the number of times Stoner prevailed over Rossi while they were co-competitors in Moto Gp, and most especially while riding on the wildly idiosyncratic Ducati (on which Rossi had crap results) is arguably a strong indicator that Stoner is the greater of the two talents.

Gaz · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
No I can't imagine Marc on the Duc, he's not dumb enough to throw his career away for money. He enjoys racing. However I can't say one way or the other if he could ride it or not. Stoner was a freakish weirdo on the bike and he rode the freakishly weird bike successfully once. Okay great but that doesn't make him better. And we will never know if Stoner would have wooped Marcs ... and thats on Stoner. But I highly doubt Stoner could have competed with Marc and the same machine I don't think anyone can.

While we will never know who would be better, I will say that just as Rossi is responsible for the likes of Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Stoner having to up their individual games, I suspect that Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa are responsible for Rossi again lifting as well as for Marquez and Vinales (to name two) also raising the bar. Likewise in years ahead there will be someone who comes along and again raises the bar and so forth which is what truly makes comparison across different eras difficult and what makes Rossi's longevity remarkable.

I do admit to feeling that of all the riders I have watched in the last 20 years, Marquez and Stoner are the most similar in their ability to seemingly be blinding fast on anything, straight from out of the box. Both are freaks of the sport and without going to individual records or results, the sheer joy of watching them at their best is something that I thank youtube for as I sit, watch and rewatch.

michaelm · Jul 5, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
If you really think that than you don't read my posts very much. I countlessly skip and laugh at your stoner dribble posts. He's nothing but dust in the wind to me. Hardly a blip on the gp radar. Stoner was great on the bike with a mediocre record what more is there to say?

Rather my point. Just because your obsession is a negative one makes it no less an obsession. You almost invariably react to even parenthetical reference to him, refer to him without provocation in current threads quite often, and fairly obsessively denigrated him when he was racing, mostly for incorrect reasons as it eventuated. This thread now has a number of posts concerning Stoner when there would have been only one reference in passing to him but for you joining a discussion which had not involved you almost entirely to vent about Stoner.

Keshav · Jul 5, 2017

Re: Presser following Yamaha chassis testing after Barcelona.

"Valentino Rossi was constantly clear about which chassis he favored, and which chassis he used. Yet Viñales consistently refused to answer questions on the subject, claiming he had been banned from doing so by Yamaha. So how can one rider answer and the other refuse?"

Would explain why Vinales of late has had such a sour look on his puss, to say nothing of why his results have been so uneven.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

Gaz said:
Mate, I work in business (deal with it daily) so I fully know and actually understand exactly what DORNA are doing and why, I simply do not agree that (as I have said many times) DORNA putting all of your eggs in the one basket is not the smartest business model, but I also readily acknowledge that with Rossi they have a very popular golden goose (the reasons for which are debatable by many).

In business, as unpalatable as it may sound, there are no rules (short of illegalities) and in top level sport the illegalities do not matter as people will do whatever they can to win as winners are grinners as the dollars roll on in.

Likewise with my full understanding of DORNA, I do not begrudge Rossi for milking all he can get as there is little doubt that all athletes what everything that they can get out of their pursuit whilst they can get it and whilst they want to get it, so full power to VR there as if DORNA allow it, then the fault is not Rossis (and I have said that many times as well - god, in the one thread I agree with MV and now seemingly defend VR - what the f*ck is wrong).

I agree. You can't blame VR for this. Who wouldn't want special treatment. I think the recession hit gp is when you could really see dorna get on board with branding its self to Rossi. Then the other eye opener for dorna money handler was the year Rossi was injured at Mugello. I remember the ratings dropping astronomically. I would imagine Dorna did too.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

Gaz said:
While we will never know who would be better, I will say that just as Rossi is responsible for the likes of Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Stoner having to up their individual games, I suspect that Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa are responsible for Rossi again lifting as well as for Marquez and Vinales (to name two) also raising the bar. Likewise in years ahead there will be someone who comes along and again raises the bar and so forth which is what truly makes comparison across different eras difficult and what makes Rossi's longevity remarkable.

I do admit to feeling that of all the riders I have watched in the last 20 years, Marquez and Stoner are the most similar in their ability to seemingly be blinding fast on anything, straight from out of the box. Both are freaks of the sport and without going to individual records or results, the sheer joy of watching them at their best is something that I thank youtube for as I sit, watch and rewatch.

Totally agree. I really wish we could have got to witness Marc and Casey go at it. Not in some one off race where Stoner tests the ducati and knows he has a chance but for an entire season. Marc was known his first couple years for making some brave passess, the kind the would upset stoners apple cart. IT would have been special to witness.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

michaelm said:
Rather my point. Just because your obsession is a negative one makes it no less an obsession. You almost invariably react to even parenthetical reference to him, refer to him without provocation in current threads quite often, and fairly obsessively denigrated him when he was racing, mostly for incorrect reasons as it eventuated. This thread now has a number of posts concerning Stoner when there would have been only one reference in passing to him but for you joining a discussion which had not involved you almost entirely to vent about Stoner.

I guess you'd know Stoner spam bot. I'm replying in conversation after making a joke. I'll discuss Stoner if the conversation is worth it. Disusing who mentions him more and debating about my supposed hatred for him are stupid and don't deserve a reply so bye bye.

Little Walter · Jul 5, 2017

michaelm said:
Rather my point. Just because your obsession is a negative one makes it no less an obsession. You almost invariably react to even parenthetical reference to him, refer to him without provocation in current threads quite often, and fairly obsessively denigrated him when he was racing, mostly for incorrect reasons as it eventuated. This thread now has a number of posts concerning Stoner when there would have been only one reference in passing to him but for you joining a discussion which had not involved you almost entirely to vent about Stoner.

There does seem to be an element out there in the fan world that has a strong antipathy toward Stoner, and this is just idle speculation, but it seems to consist of a post "Revenge Of The Nerds" backlash from knuckle dragging muscle heads with a savage resentment of riders who don't fit their ideal of what macho manly riders should be. Of all the riders I've heard discussed on PS, Stoner has been the one most consistently denigrated because of his shrimpy appearance, ie. buck toothed, skinny, freckled, ginger etc, all of which apparently was exaserbated by his being joined with a gorgeous hottie of a wife, that the frat boys determined he was not worthy of.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

Little Walter said:
There does seem to be an element out there in the fan world that has a strong antipathy toward Stoner, and this is just idle speculation, but it seems to consist of a post "Revenge Of The Nerds" backlash from knuckle dragging muscle heads with a savage resentment of riders who don't fit their ideal of what macho manly riders should be. Of all the riders I've heard discussed on PS, Stoner has been the one most consistently denigrated because of his shrimpy appearance, ie. buck toothed, skinny, freckled, ginger etc, all of which apparently was exaserbated by his being joined with a gorgeous hottie of a wife, that the frat boys determined he was not worthy of.

I beg to defer. I always found it funny how you can debate anything you want about certain riders especially Rossi, but you question anything about Stoner and your instantly labeled someone who hates Stoner. It very similar to the behavior of people who have suffered abuse.

JohnnyKnockdown · Jul 5, 2017

Little Walter said:
There does seem to be an element out there in the fan world that has a strong antipathy toward Stoner, and this is just idle speculation, but it seems to consist of a post "Revenge Of The Nerds" backlash from knuckle dragging muscle heads with a savage resentment of riders who don't fit their ideal of what macho manly riders should be. Of all the riders I've heard discussed on PS, Stoner has been the one most consistently denigrated because of his shrimpy appearance, ie. buck toothed, skinny, freckled, ginger etc, all of which apparently was exaserbated by his being joined with a gorgeous hottie of a wife, that the frat boys determined he was not worthy of.

For ..... sake, your so Literal Walter. I suggest you sit down and watch some old Mel Brooks movies or South Park and try to understand parody.
We're all a bunch of nerds. Put me, Dub and Stoner in a lineup and the only discernible difference between us would be wallet size

SlartyBartFast · Jul 5, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
For ..... sake, your so Literal Walter. I suggest you sit down and watch some old Mel Brooks movies or South Park and try to understand parody.
We're all a bunch of nerds. Put me, Dub and Stoner in a lineup and the only discernible difference between us would be wallet size

And testicle

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 5, 2017

SlartyBartFast said:
And testicle

Who's talking about Lance Armstrong?

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