donnington race

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 27 2009, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>to let him have the extra point...

Well that thought did cross my mind, do you think he would have? I know he's a nice guy but .... to come last for the sake of one point?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 26 2009, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well that thought did cross my mind, do you think he would have? I know he's a nice guy but .... to come last for the sake of one point?
sure he would. nicky has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the title whats 1 point to him? now casey is still in this championship & that 1 point could make all the difference in the world.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Jul 26 2009, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It makes little difference trying to argue the gamble was a good one, since the Race is over and the result is recorded.....Stoner 14th, and Hayden 15th.....accept it and move on...

You're above statement tries to judge Ducati's gamble as unwise. The question is, was it unwise? The results only prove that the gamble didn't pay off. As in poker, we take gambles, when we don't win, this doesn't mean the gamble was UNWISE, the loss only proves it didn't pay off.

Not true, but I wouldn't expect you to evaluate and analyze with any degree of competence, you never have, why start now? The results say something about the who won and who didn't win the bet. This is what the results reveal. But here we have some saying the gamble was inherently unwise. It wasn't. Can you see this? No, I doubt it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 26 2009, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well that thought did cross my mind, do you think he would have? I know he's a nice guy but .... to come last for the sake of one point?
Yes, its worth it. Stoner gets one valuable point, and he saves a friend and graditude. Its win all around in that decision. Its a no brainer really. One point wouldn't make a difference in Nicky's championship. but it may for Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 27 2009, 02:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sure he would. nicky has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the title whats 1 point to him? now casey is still in this championship & that 1 point could make all the difference in the world.


I think you are right cos he was up to fifth at one point wasn't he? Did he crash or go off that I missed?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't expect you to understand, as your ability to reason is rather limited. The Ducatis took a gamble that the Yamahas would have some tire problem, they in fact did. (Does it have to be a crash for the strategy to be as you say "a dumb argument"? No, they just had to experience a problem, and they did, which makes their gamble not so stupid.

Did the other factories take a gamble starting on slicks? I’m assuming you answered yes. So what makes their gamble smart and Ducati’s stupid?


Yamahas and everyone else sure had tyre problems, but it was nothing compared to the tyre problems that Ducati had. If the rest of the field is running slicks, and you are the only one running wets, you must know something the others dont. Ducati took a bad gamble, against all the rest of the field, and when you take such a bad gamble, on something so unprodictable as the weather, you end up looking stupid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 26 2009, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you are right cos he was up to fifth at one point wasn't he? Did he crash or go off that I missed?
nah he didn't crash he just slowed down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, its worth it. Stoner gets one valuable point, and he saves a friend and graditude. Its win all around in that decision. Its a no brainer really. One point wouldn't make a difference in Nicky's championship. but it may for Stoner.

Go look at the MotoGP lap by lap analysis of the race....Casey was running 1 second or greater faster a lap than Nicky from Lap 17 until he past him on lap 25 and then left him well behind....Nicky destroyed his tires and lost out to Stoner

Occam's razor.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 26 2009, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i was pullin for randy for his 1st win as well

+1 / What a difference the Bridgestones made for him. From crashin' to smashin'.
I couldn't believe how well Dovi stuck to Rossi's rear. The boy rode smart. Good
for him. And what with Edwards on the podium too - the "How long till a satellite
on the podium" question didn't take long to be answered.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're above statement tries to judge Ducati's gamble as unwise. The question is, was it unwise? The results only prove that the gamble didn't pay off. As in poker, we take gambles, when we don't win, this doesn't mean the gamble was UNWISE, the loss only proves it didn't pay off.

I wonder if Ducati's resident weather nerd blew the forecast?
If they thought a deluge was on the way, fitting wet tires would have made perfect sense or, at the least, would have been seen as a reasonable risk.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 26 2009, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+1 / What a difference the Bridgestones made for him. From crashin' to smashin'.
I couldn't believe how well Dovi stuck to Rossi's rear. The boy rode smart. Good
for him. And what with Edwards on the podium too - the "How long till a satellite
on the podium" question didn't take long to be answered.


Did'nt he get a new suspension also this year?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Jul 26 2009, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder if Ducati's resident weather nerd blew the forecast?
If they thought a deluge was on the way, fitting wet tires would have made perfect sense or, at the least, would have been seen as a reasonable risk.


Its all a conspiricy!!! Uccio paid the Ducati weather guy to tell C+N it was sure to rain

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jul 26 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but jums, they crashed while leading the race, instead of struggling at the very back... they gambled because they wanna be fast, but it wasn't the case. The two rivals you were talking about, sure they crashed. i say tough luck for them because majority of the field sans the two who gambled did not.

rossi and jorge = did not gamble...crashed...though vale still came in 5th

the rest of the field sans ducati = did not gamble, did not crash except for...Elias? spare me some mercy as it's very late here and i'm very sleep so i might have forgotten someone else crashing.

ducati = gambled, did not crash but where were they at the end of the race?

I'd say they did gamble. The gambled that they'd finish the race on slicks on a wet track
- and it didn't work out so good - did it?

The only races I will ever watch on SpeedTV are the SBK ones. I like the grid gossip and press conference from the live feed too much to miss a GP.

It was never a good strategy to run wet when you are fighting with the championship leader on slicks. It's all about where you finish relative to the contenders. Rossi and Lorenzo's crashes prove nothing. They were riding hard at the front. Dovi and Colin had the strategy perfect.

And Rossi didn't get lucky, his crashes are almost always very low speed lowslides where he's in control and trail braking. The skill is in making small mistakes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 27 2009, 12:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd say they did gamble. The gambled that they'd finish the race on slicks on a wet track
- and it didn't work out so good - did it?

actually it wasn't wet...it was cold and/or damp. then at one point, there was a part where the sun was shining brightly.

but okay, since everything in life is a risk, let me correct my statement

rest of the field = gambled

ducatis = gambled A LOT

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That’s a rather ignorant statement Square. Hayden had way more to gain and far less to lose on a gamble. That's why people who are down on their luck take the long shot to win on a horse race. If anything, his gamble to run rain tires was a much better bet between the two. Does nobody here subscribe to logic?
Ha ha Jumkie, you're obsessed with that logic. You must be a sort of philosopher.
I said that was the feeling I had. That was in no way an attempt to make a serious analysis. You say 'Hayden had way more to gain and far less to lose on a gamble', so you believe he thinks he still could win the championship with such a move? I don't think you believe it, nor I think he does. So, was that a strange attempt to win a single race? Again, definitely no I suppose. Since Ducati manager said tyre choice was taken by riders, I think Stoner could have thought about all you wrote about, but Hayden?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evolution @ Jul 26 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamahas and everyone else sure had tyre problems, but it was nothing compared to the tyre problems that Ducati had. If the rest of the field is running slicks, and you are the only one running wets, you must know something the others dont. Ducati took a bad gamble, against all the rest of the field, and when you take such a bad gamble, on something so unprodictable as the weather, you end up looking stupid.

Yes, I totally agree with what you said in this post. Yes, yes. All I'm arguing is, that the gamble was not so unwise. These guys are not idiots or stupid, the gamble did NOT pay off, that's it. Do you see the difference? One this is doing something stupid, the other this is doing something unwise. As you can see from the major problems Lorenzo and Rossi has that the gamble was not so unwise after all. Evo, both Yamahas crashed! (Only one was able to continue, and that is by providence).

Does anybody here gamble? Geez. Like I said, even the Yamahas to a gamble, and by sheer luck Rossi's lever only bent not snapped off. Being on slick was a gamble. You are fixated on that they started the race on the tires they chose. But when Rossi chose to stay out there on slicks, was this not a gamble. Was this a wise risk? Answer this questions. Was it a wise risk? It just so happened to pay off because even those he crashed (at this point the gamble went bad) he was a able to continue (the gamble, as luck has it, paid off).


This is the nature of gambles people. Are there wise and unwise gambles, yes? But take a look at the circumstance, and I think you will see that Ducati’s gamble was not that far off from wise. Did it pay off? NO. It turns out; one snap of a clutch lever would have made the difference.

Crazy race, though quite interesting.

Congrats to Dovi for his 1st MotoGP win, the guy had already won here in 125cc and 250cc, seems to be an expert on this track. Unfortunately for him it's gone next year.

Good job too, Edwards and De Puniet, I was actually cheering for Edwards but seems luck is never on his side. Anyway keeping it rubber side down on that pace was impressive enough.

2nd good showing by De Angelis, it's a bit late to wake up in the standings, but better late than never.

The GOAT was not so GOATy today, actually made a rookie mistake, still managed to get up and get some good points for the championship which looks more and more like sealed.

Decent job by the rest who managed to stay up.

Jorge, that was stupid, you can't win a championship being so careless.

Dani, choosing the hardest front was stupid, BUT neither of these two was as stupid as STONER!!!!

rain tyres on a dry track???? that's the most ........ thing I've seen since, oh wait Ferrari did it in Malaysia with Kimi Raikkonen this season .... strategist was fired next week. That's how stupid that mistake is. Even if it had started to rain, a few laps into the race, you loose 10s per lap, so in 3 laps the leaders already have enough margin to swap bikes and still rejoin ahead AND the rain tires would be useless by then cause they would be worn out after a few laps on the dry asphalt.

Ahh what a brillant race! Nice to see some other guys up on the podium for a change eh! I was a little disapointed that Elias came off so early as i really thought he could of got a good position.

What were the ducati's thinking of with that gamble though? Talk about a bad decision! If the weather man was right though they could have pulled it off. I don't think Stoner should have done that with so much at stake though. But hey you win some and you lose some...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jul 26 2009, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ducatis = gambled A LOT

It was a mitigation to a medium risk that did not materialize....AKA bad choice and a poor gamble


Since it was a riders decision and not Ducati's decision then the riders can get all the credit for their WISE gamble....