donnington race

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 27 2009, 11:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why is the press wigging out about the tire choice?

Ducati took a big gamble, the results were embarrassing

That is why.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 27 2009, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why is the press wigging out about the tire choice? Who cares? If Casey and Nicky had gone out and sustained injuries in a crash, the headlines would pity the "unlucky" Ducati squad.

Stoner lost 9 or 10 points to Vale (same as finishing 3rd if Vale wins) and he gave a few points to Pedrosa. Stoner GAINED points on Lorenzo. Yet the headlines are all about the fools at Ducati and the wild scandal that took place. The BBC was the worst, neither Parrish nor Cox would shut the hell up about it.

Ducati took a big gamble, the results were embarrassing, the consequences were negligible. Besides the embarrassment, the gamble cost Ducati almost nothing in terms of the championship. Stoner could very easily have finished third behind Lorenzo and Rossi.
Thats a very good take Lex. I hadnt seen it like that. Being on slicks was a great risk also. It only providence that jorge or rossi didnt get hurt.

Gsfan, saying stoner could hav won on slicks is as valid as saying he could hav crashed on them too right? Afterall there were two crashes from the lead.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 28 2009, 05:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner GAINED points on Lorenzo.
Since when does one point qualify as pointS? Justifying that tyre choice because Lorenzo happened to crash out is really clutching at straws.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 28 2009, 07:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats a very good take Lex.
Yeah you would think that...
Everybody has distanced himself from this and claimed it was a mistake on Casey's part, including Suppo and the whole Ducati garage, but no... you know better right? It was WISE. It was CLEVER. It was right up there with that brainwave Newton had when that apple fell on his head!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 28 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since when does one point qualify as pointS? Justifying that tyre choice because Lorenzo happened to crash out is really clutching at straws.

Yeah you would think that...
Everybody has distanced himself from this and claimed it was a mistake on Casey's part, including Suppo and the whole Ducati garage, but no... you know better right? It was WISE. It was CLEVER. It was right up there with that brainwave Newton had when that apple fell on his head!

breathe girl

say this with me: whoooosaaaahhh



glad to have you back BG

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 28 2009, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since when does one point qualify as pointS?

Stoner finished 14th which is worth two championship points (Hayden collected the lone point)




Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 28 2009, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner finished 14th which is worth two championship points (Hayden collected the lone point)
Gaz
You're right. My bad. Still...2 points justify the choice? Not really. Not when he could have been fighting at the front. Not in a race where all the main contenders crashed or had major problems. Bad bad bad choice. Can't stop saying it. I just pity Nicky going along with it as it could've been a great opportunity for him to give his team mate a good bashing. Meh...Not that he'd have won anyway....
Bring it on Jumk...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 28 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're right. My bad. Still...2 points justify the choice? Not really. Not when he could have been fighting at the front. Not in a race where all the main contenders crashed or had major problems. Bad bad bad choice. Can't stop saying it. I just pity Nicky going along with it as it could've been a great opportunity for him to give his team mate a good bashing. Meh...Not that he'd have won anyway....
Bring it on Jumk...

I so wanted Nicky to beat stoner, but sadley it wasn't to be.

loved stoner in this one. shouldv'e turned on his fog lights and started signalling. hard luck. maybe better decision next time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Jul 28 2009, 06:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I so wanted Nicky to beat stoner, but sadley it wasn't to be.

I think Nicky let Stoner pass unless Stoner really was faster on the last laps. Nicky was ahead for the most part.

But oh yeah, of course Ducati made a mistake with the tyre choice. This is a fact. I'll explain why:

1) Slicks were way faster through all race, save a couple of laps
2) With slicks Stoner could have quite surely hit top 5 even if he had been extra careful the whole time (to ensure not to crash).
3) Ducati would have had a shot at victory (We won't know what would have happened, but surely a billion times better chance to win with slicks)
4) The top 5 riders all finished with slicks

But hey, atleast they didn't crash. BUT I believe that a big reason for them not crashing was that they had nowhere to hurry after the first 10 laps. They knew that all they had to do at that point was to bring the bikes to the finish line and gather a couple of points. I'm sure it would have been easy to crash with the grained rain tyres if they had pushed 100% all the time.

So obviously slicks would have been the better choice and everyone claiming otherwise is an ...... But it's true that they could have done even worse, which is the main point Jumkie is trying to prove I guess.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wander @ Jul 28 2009, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But it's true that they could have done even worse, which is the main point Jumkie is trying to prove I guess.
Ah but they could have done SOOOO much better. As a Motogp fan it was downright weird uncomfortable and plain WRONG to see TWO world champions cruising around at the back like 2 losers fighting it out over the last two points (which were only available because 2 riders crashed out) on a champiionship winning bike. Just plain wrong.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 28 2009, 08:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah but they could have done SOOOO much better. As a Motogp fan it was downright weird uncomfortable and plain WRONG to see TWO world champions cruising around at the back like 2 losers fighting it out over the last two points (which were only available because 2 riders crashed out) on a champiionship winning bike. Just plain wrong.

Agreed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 28 2009, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah but they could have done SOOOO much better. As a Motogp fan it was downright weird uncomfortable and plain WRONG to see TWO world champions cruising around at the back like 2 losers fighting it out over the last two points (which were only available because 2 riders crashed out) on a champiionship winning bike. Just plain wrong.

ah, you forgot to add seeing them get lapped.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 28 2009, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats a very good take Lex. I hadnt seen it like that. Being on slicks was a great risk also. It only providence that jorge or rossi didnt get hurt.

Gsfan, saying stoner could hav won on slicks is as valid as saying he could hav crashed on them too right? Afterall there were two crashes from the lead.

Going for slics:
Best case: 23 points gained - worst case 2 points lost
Hard choice, very hard choice....

I dont know weather anyone hear an interveiw some where on BBC, But if I recall I did hear that Stoner made the choice to use wetsand didnt want to listen to his team and Livio who were telling him to have slicks, Stoner being Stoner thought he knew best and made the mistake him self. The reason why Nicky had wets to is coz he didnt manage a decent set-up for dry adn thought he would just follow Stoner in his on a wimm prediction"

Must admit I wouldnt of liked to have been in the garage after the race. Plenty of toys being thrown out the pram.

But excellent race i thought plenty of overtaking, good to see Dovi with win, but equally good to see edwards on podium with a tyre he didnt really know anything about. and RDP what a man at the moment, rubber side down except for one race Ohins are the future j/k

Would be good to see what RDP could do with some facotry support i.e Toni E bike.

Is a shame about Rossi and Jorge but ST happens.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 28 2009, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why is the press wigging out about the tire choice? Who cares? If Casey and Nicky had gone out and sustained injuries in a crash, the headlines would pity the "unlucky" Ducati squad.

You should go on asking that again, until you understand that so bad decisions are headline news.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Stoner lost 9 or 10 points to Vale (same as finishing 3rd if Vale wins) and he gave a few points to Pedrosa. Stoner GAINED points on Lorenzo.
Just because Rossi and Lorenzo fail, doesn't make Stoner's decision better, just luckier.
He could potentially have gained 14 points on Rossi and 25 on Lorenzo.
That would have given Stoner 173. 14 behind Rossi and 11 in front of Lorenzo instead of 150, 12 behind Lorenzo, as it is now. I'd say that is somewhat more than negligible.
Negligible is the two points he got Yesterday.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 28 2009, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You should go on asking that again, until you understand that so bad decisions are headline news.

Just because Rossi and Lorenzo fail, doesn't make Stoner's decision better, just luckier.
He could potentially have gained 14 points on Rossi and 25 on Lorenzo.
That would have given Stoner 173. 14 behind Rossi and 11 in front of Lorenzo instead of 150, 12 behind Lorenzo, as it is now. I'd say that is somewhat more than negligible.
Negligible is the two points he got Yesterday.


But, if all fell then there was no change, and if Rossi finished second and Stoner DNF's while Lorenzo picked up a woman in the grandstand after crashing then Rossi would be miles in front and so on.

The facts are that CS dropped points to VR and DP, but picked up to JL.

It doesn't matter how many points or what caused it - the facts remain the facts and whilst yes, it may not have been ideal he still got some points back on one of the challengers whilst losing to another.

The game of hypothesising what might have been is totally irrelevant as what is done is done and we now go to the next round.




Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 28 2009, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The game of hypothesising what might have been is totally irrelevant as what is done is done and we now go to the next round.




Garry

with three weeks before the next race? this could drag on and on and on

Look at Laguna 08 as an example

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 28 2009, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But, if all fell then there was no change, and if Rossi finished second and Stoner DNF's while Lorenzo picked up a woman in the grandstand after crashing then Rossi would be miles in front and so on.

The facts are that CS dropped points to VR and DP, but picked up to JL.

It doesn't matter how many points or what caused it - the facts remain the facts and whilst yes, it may not have been ideal he still got some points back on one of the challengers whilst losing to another.

The game of hypothesising what might have been is totally irrelevant as what is done is done and we now go to the next round.


Garry

Hey, I'm not the one starting the hypothesising game. Jumkie has been nagging on about what could have happened with some more rain.

Besides this was more about a very bad decision and the "sliding doors". Somewhat different than the usual hypothesising me thinks.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wander @ Jul 28 2009, 08:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Nicky let Stoner pass unless Stoner really was faster on the last laps. Nicky was ahead for the most part.

But oh yeah, of course Ducati made a mistake with the tyre choice. This is a fact. I'll explain why:

1) Slicks were way faster through all race, save a couple of laps
2) With slicks Stoner could have quite surely hit top 5 even if he had been extra careful the whole time (to ensure not to crash).
3) Ducati would have had a shot at victory (We won't know what would have happened, but surely a billion times better chance to win with slicks)
4) The top 5 riders all finished with slicks

But hey, atleast they didn't crash. BUT I believe that a big reason for them not crashing was that they had nowhere to hurry after the first 10 laps. They knew that all they had to do at that point was to bring the bikes to the finish line and gather a couple of points. I'm sure it would have been easy to crash with the grained rain tyres if they had pushed 100% all the time.

So obviously slicks would have been the better choice and everyone claiming otherwise is an ...... But it's true that they could have done even worse, which is the main point Jumkie is trying to prove I guess.
It was the wrong choice for the first 2/3 of the race but the right choice for the remaining 1/3. Rossi was lucky his bike was undamaged and he could rejoin and take 5th. it could have easley gone the same way as lorenzo scoring no points what so ever. The fact both ducatis finished the race without crashing and scoring a point or 2 says it wasnt really the wrong choice.
As i said the weather was weird. it was raining for the first 2/3 of the race but it was windy. i think a combination of this wind and the drying characteristics of donny track surface kept the track quite dry but theres no doubt the riders vizers would have been soaked in rain. Looking at some of the crashes and near crashes of riders on slicks i cant blame the ducati boys for using wets.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 28 2009, 04:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>With slicks he could have won the race though.
he could although it would have been unlikely. remember his pace was off enough that he started 2nd row. On slicks he may have won but then he may have crashed scoring no points.

in morning warm up every timer he came through starkys it looked like the rear was sliding out. you dont want the rear to slide there as you will slide on the paint and this is why there were crashes there.