donnington race

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 26 2009, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+1 / What a difference the Bridgestones made for him. From crashin' to smashin'.
I couldn't believe how well Dovi stuck to Rossi's rear. The boy rode smart. Good
for him. And what with Edwards on the podium too - the "How long till a satellite
on the podium" question didn't take long to be answered.
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I made that thread for the next satelite "winner"
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Jul 26 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie i also disagree with you on this one.Yamaha never took any gamble in this race, at the point when race started there was only one logical and obvious tyre choice which was softer slick tyres and most of the teams went for this option apart from ducati.

As for as Loranzo and Rossi crashes are concern, they both made mistakes and paid the price like any other race.

If yamaha riders started there race on harder tyres thinking SUN will be out in next 5 mins and track temprature will rise upto 35 degrees then you could have said that they too took the gamble as well.Your blind loyalty to ducati and stoner is just making you look stupid now so please stop defending them because they are not defending themselfs on this one.

Re-read the post you're quoting. There's a big difference between a calculated risk
and a stupid gamble.

Both the Yamaha riders and the Ducati riders took calculated risks. Both suffered as a result.
Ducati took the bigger risk and overall - suffered the greater loss.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Jul 26 2009, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you need to read my post again, tell me how come yamaha took any gamble when there was only one logical and obvious tyre choice was available at the start of the race and which they went with.

Easy! Rossi and Lorenzo (and everyone else for that matter) gambled that they
could finish out the race with switching to bikes with cut slicks on a track that
was wet and appearing to get wetter. They all gambled on the rain not getting
heavier.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 26 2009, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Re-read the post you're quoting. There's a big difference between a calculated risk
and a stupid gamble.

Both the Yamaha riders and the Ducati riders took calculated risks. Both suffered as a result.
Ducati took the bigger risk and overall - suffered the greater loss.
Can you point out where i mentioned that ducati took a stupid gamble please.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 26 2009, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I made that thread for the next satelite "winner"

Oh
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- that's different. Not this year. If it were going to happen
it would have done so today. Ross can only get caught with his pants
down but so many times in a season.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Jul 26 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie i also disagree with you on this one.Yamaha never took any gamble in this race, at the point when race started there was <u>only one</u> logical and obvious tyre choice which was softer slick tyres and most of the teams went for this option apart from ducati.

I admit in part - I mis-read the post. However . . .
It's implied when you say in so many words that any other choice than slicks
was illogical. The decision to run rain tires was doubtless based in part on
the history of many races at Donnington in heavy rain, coupled with the
already damp track.

If it had poured buckets - people would have been saying how brilliantly intuitive
the Ducati riders were. But really it would have just been luck. In the end
luck or chance - played a big part in everyone's results. That's why folks refer to these
flag-to-flag events as "lotteries."
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 27 2009, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's implied when you say in so many words that any other choice than slicks
was illogical. The decision to run rain tires was doubtless based in part on
the history of many races at Donnington in heavy rain, coupled with the
already damp track.

If it had poured buckets - people would have been saying how brilliantly intuitive
the Ducati riders were. But really it would have just been luck. In the end
luck or chance - played a big part in everyone's results. That's why folks refer to these
flag-to-flag events as "lotteries."
Keshav, i think we are going in different directions here.I agree with you what you said above about ducati, there is no doubt that they took the gamble but it didn't come off.

But jumkie said in his post the yamaha took gamble as well and thats the part i disagree with him, i think they went with most sensiable option available at point when race started.
 
good race overall. nice to see slicing and dicing going on at the front. exciting!!!

stupid decision(imo) by factory ducati. when i heard there decision at the start of the race i already knew what was in store for hayden and stoner.

looking forward to the next race....
 
I must admit watching CS and Nicky get lapped by the entire field I almost felt pity for them....what a .... up. That gamble was just Stoopid. Not just wets, steel discs too!

If they started with slicks at least they would have been in the same boat as everyone else, it would have had to have rained within 3 laps of the start for them to be any chance as they would have ...... the wets anyway.....very slim odds to back

After this I'm wondering why I wasted so much time having to justify why you can't put Suppo/CS in the same class as VR/JB in developing WC winning motorcycle prototypes!! You listening GAZ!

This was an amatuer/desperate mistake really...at this level it shouldn't happen and I feel embarassed for the riders

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c,mon Jum I'm ready! put your bias gloves on
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 01:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I must admit watching CS and Nicky get lapped by the entire field I almost felt pity for them....what a .... up. That gamble was just Stoopid. Not just wets, steel discs too!

If they started with slicks at least they would have been in the same boat as everyone else, it would have had to have rained within 3 laps of the start for them to be any chance as they would have ...... the wets anyway.....very slim odds to back

After this I'm wondering why I wasted so much time having to justify why you can't put Suppo/CS in the same class as VR/JB in developing WC winning motorcycle prototypes!! You listening GAZ!

This was an amatuer/desperate mistake really...at this level it shouldn't happen and I feel embarassed for the riders

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c,mon Jum I'm ready! put your bias gloves on
He already had Talpa, check the thread agian.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After this I'm wondering why I wasted so much time having to justify why you can't put Suppo/CS in the same class as VR/JB in developing WC winning motorcycle prototypes!! You listening GAZ!

Ah, predicability is good and we are all experts after the event.

As an FYI, from all reports this was Stoner's decision - thus remove Suppo as it is said that he wanted CS on slicks - so maybe he is as smart as JB afterall who put his rider on slicks.
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Aboslutely NFI why CS went the wet way, a risk as Jumkie says - absolutely and possibly on some regards a smart calculated risk - but I am not sure. To me he would have had to have access to reports the other teams did not have, or he worked on gut feel - either way it has cost him to VR but he did pick up a whopping 2 points to Lorenzo


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This was an amatuer/desperate mistake really...at this level it shouldn't happen and I feel embarassed for the riders

The fact it did and does is interesting as riders continue to gamble and take risks each time they go onto the track as they believe that they have chosen a tyre suitable for the purpose. Sometimest he tyres 'go-off' due to circumstances and whatnot. Sometimes the risks pay off - this one did not plain and simple.



Jumkie, as an aside I understand your point about the gambles and agree that based on one type of result (ie. did they fall) then the Ducati gamble was the correct one (as both VR and JL fell). But people do not look at it that wat as the world is based on results and the fact remains that VR despite falling again found his bike relatively undamaged enough to pick it up (hey MDub - he did it alone) and finish the race, thus proving that the VR Yamaha risk/gamble was a lesser one as you say (albeit with luck to avoid race ending damage).







Garry
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, predicability is good and we are all experts after the event.

As an FYI, from all reports this was Stoner's decision - thus remove Suppo as it is said that he wanted CS on slicks - so maybe he is as smart as JB afterall who put his rider on slicks.
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Garry

Not just JB-The whole field!
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Are the reports true that Suppo called his team a bunch of idiots? I hope not, but if so that then should have been a little more narrowly directed from your info.....

Usually, you expect this kind of gamble from a sat team who doesn't expect to win anyway and throws it on the line.....even the sat teams didn't do this. Watching Gabor scoot past him was borderline sadistic!
Maybe CS thought this was the only way he could win it?

There are some moments when Rossi Haters have very little Ammo to work with....and in these times when they try its beyond funny.
This is one of those times
To crash out while plowing the track for Dovi (who rode f'n great!), then crash, pick up the bike and re-join the race on the pace within 2 laps. Then push his crashed bike to the limit to pass JT on the second last corner for 5th place, for a 2 point gain. (correct if I'm wrong) GOAT behaviour

Colin and Randy, however, get my vote for this one. Both of them managed to get a '....' in post race interviews which was so refreshing, as was, and always is, the way Colin sums things up...
Both rode like demons! thank you British Weather patterns
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To crash out while plowing the track for Dovi (who rode f'n great!), then crash, pick up the bike and re-join the race on the pace within 2 laps. Then push his crashed bike to the limit to pass JT on the second last corner for 5th place, for a 2 point gain. (correct if I'm wrong) GOAT behaviour
And add to all this Talpa, he picked his bike up all by himself with out any help from marshalls.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not just JB-The whole field!
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Wrong - you forgot Nicky and his crew chief (yes - it is a long bow and I am choosing to draw it).

Plus with two DNF's then the decision was smart enough to finish in front of those two as well
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But credit where it is due, doing a full race that was effectively dry and remaining upright irrespective of any other factors - good luck to them. Just as credit to those that rode on slicks and stayed upright when the rain started - to finish first, first you must finish as they say.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are the reports true that Suppo called his team a bunch of idiots? I hope not, but if so that then should have been a little more narrowly directed from your info.....

Someone earlier posted a translated link - maybe Bikergirl - look back.

And as an FYI - it isn't my information but that of others posted earlier and direct quotes doing the round - CS accepts it from one of the interviews I have seen - I don't want credit where it isn't mine.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Usually, you expect this kind of gamble from a sat team who doesn't expect to win anyway and throws it on the line.....even the sat teams didn't do this. Watching Gabor scoot past him was borderline sadistic!
Maybe CS thought this was the only way he could win it?

No real idea - possibly given his recent issues he wanted rain (as he had said) and with warm-up wet and clouds around - he punted - he lost.

But factory teams have made these type of gambles in the past (Cagiva/Lawson on slicks) - but not much that immediately springs to mind of late. From memory didn't CS/Ducati punt on sofy tyres last year a few times to try to make up teh points difference to VR - and wasn't these the races that they had falls?

Sometimes you have to punt - sometimes not (or as the song goes - you got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em)

Mind you, riders will go out on the soft when hard was required and vice versa - this was no real different but with greater ramifications if they got it wrong - they did.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are some moments when Rossi Haters have very little Ammo to work with....and in these times when they try its beyond funny.
This is one of those times
To crash out while plowing the track for Dovi (who rode f'n great!), then crash, pick up the bike and re-join the race on the pace within 2 laps. Then push his crashed bike to the limit to pass JT on the second last corner for 5th place, for a 2 point gain. (correct if I'm wrong) GOAT behaviour

Just as Stoner did last year at Laguna - correct me if I am wrong.

And just as Rossi has done time and again - correct me again.

How can or why would some diss any rider, be it CS/VR/CE(who has done it) etc for crashing, remounting and continuing to pick up points, whether it be one point or more as a championship is about points accumulation. But, to be able to pickup your bike after a fall, any fall and have it still rideable with no race ending damage does require a level of luck (although I read the word skill and crash in the same sentence earlier - to crash does not require skill as I can prove
<
) .


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Colin and Randy, however, get my vote for this one. Both of them managed to get a '....' in post race interviews which was so refreshing, as was, and always is, the way Colin sums things up...
Both rode like demons! thank you British Weather patterns
<


Credit to CE but he has been around a long time and has regularly slipped the word '....' into interviews, Randy is a relative newcomer (but damn good to see him on the podium) so as a rookie he did extra well - wonder if he practiced it.

Interesting interview what I saw of CE's actually as he seemed to allude to the circumstances being very strange in terms of the race unfolding. Found his comments about the track temp and left side of the tyre interesting as being that cold (as he described it) woudl mean the ambient was cool and probably played a part in CS' decision (why not use radar?).


Fish all ye want but CS farked up - simple, no arguments, no excuses. For me I cannot say if the risk of full wets was deserved (would need to have physically been at the track and know the likelihood of rain).

But as Jumkie has alluded - CS is behind and he needs to take risks to catch up (JL in same boat) just as he had to last year - whether Donnington was the place to take the risk and whether wets were the right option is debatable (in terms only of the risk - prior to result). See, I always hark back to that magic ride by Lawson - everyone questions him lining up at the start of a wet race on slicks - the result is folklore and history. It remains for me one of the greatest individual rides that and inspired gambling decisions I have seen in motorcycle racing.








Garry
 
This is the crash style of Rossi, very "light". We saw many times he crashed like this: the bike was near by the track, he picked it up and continue.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Crazy race. Wet race.

Congrats to Dovi.

Colin's big chance, and as usual, runs out of balls. Well done anyway.

Randy, wow, that crash never came. Good job.

Rossi, hes not only good, but he's the luckiest man in the world, ever. He's the only man that can crash and his bike be in tact when it counts. Good fight back up order.

Ducati's, took gamble. God didn't send the rain. Had he, they would have looked like geniuses, now they look rather dumb.

.... God.
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Well it looks like this championship may be decided like the last three.
 
Stoner made probably the worst tire decision I've ever seen and now I am starting to doubt his mental capacity. For Hayden it made no difference but for Stoner it lost him a chance to gain on Valentino. Screw winning the race and looking like a hero he can't let Rossi gain and fortunately for him Rossi was out of the big point positions. Damn lucky. That is what he should have been thinking but now I realize he is not even thinking about that. He is done. He based decision on probabilities of the changed of weather in England? He doesn't even appear to want to race anymore.

Someone at factory Suzuki should be calling a Mr. Paul D and asking some tough questions like WTF did they build a new machine for? No one seems to be able to set it up to race. Call the Yosh boys in please...do something different.
 
I thought Lorenzo and Rossi were supposed to be using the new "air bag" suits for the race? Would have been funny to see Rossi lapping around with a "camel" back
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mumu37 @ Jul 27 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought Lorenzo and Rossi were supposed to be using the new "air bag" suits for the race? Would have been funny to see Rossi lapping around with a "camel" back
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or it would have looked like the Michelin man riding Vale's bike
 
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"weirdest" podium pic so far
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