donnington race

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh, I see, I guess that proves Lorenzo bike doesn't have the parts like Rossi since his crashed produced a DNF. (see how dumb you sound?--no, I doubt you do).

Keep up the good work J. fight all the way down.


Back to the real world:
I guess I'm one of the few agreeing with clark here, this race is nothing to write home about.
It's the third freak race of the season and they are NEVER good in the trems of real fighting. Sure it can be quite a lot of entertainment from all that chaos but it's mostly light entertainment nothing else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 27 2009, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>..........
Yamaha took a gamble by starting on slicks, it was a failure for both factory riders resulting in CRASHES FOR BOTH (fact)! One was able to continue--providence (or for the non believer, happenstance)! The gamble paid off.

.................
Sorry Jum, but I kinda disagree with this.
I don't think that was a failure for Yamaha by starting on slicks.
Lorenzo crashed because of his own mistake ( he was hit the white line - like Elias).
Rossi crashed because of his own mistake as well(I don't know,maybe he was a little bit too hot entering the corner).
If starting on slicks was a failure, then (theoretically) both of Stoner and Hayden should be up front. Since they're on the opposite (Wet tyres).
IMO, If the slick tyres was a failure, then the wet tyres should be the right one.
or the opposite

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 26 2009, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>rossi was being greedy… he wanted the final donny win....

Since when wanting to <u>win</u> so much became greedy? I don´t get you mate! And who did not want the win? Lorenzo wanted it so much too, he was not been greedy. In both there’s a difference between ambition and greed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 26 2009, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stupid mistake…

This I agree with you!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 26 2009, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He [Rossi] shoulda thought about the championship first and the points instead of being a .... on shot tyres...

Luck smiles him I say. But we are happy with 5th after all.

Colin needs full factory support immediately----what a beast. He's 35 years old and he's in 5th place on a satellite bike. On a good day at the right track he could pounce on Dovi, Stoner, or Pedrosa. Those are the types of little things that bring championships nearer to the factory Yamaha riders.

Go Colin.

Jumkie, can you please leave out the word lever from your posts for a while? You make it sound like the while race was about the miracle lever on Rossi’s bike. And I am pretty sure that Lorenzo would have not preferred to be on wets, even after he crashed. If he was on wets he would have had no chance at wining what so ever. He probably regrets making the mistake of riding on the white line, but I am sure he would not go to wets if he could take back time to the start of the race.
The Ducati gamble looks desperate. If they started with slicks and it started to rain, they could have gone in to change with the rest of the riders. Staring on wets, against all odds sound very desperate, like they had to had some sort of a miracle to be able to win this race.

Doesn't it ring a bell--Rossi Loses the Rear on a Silly Bend to the Left... His usual mistake

At least this time he didn't compound it with his usual Wrong Decision in a Wet Race--i.e. he did not go in for a bike swap when rain got worse. Good choice.

Lorenzo, as usual, was defeated by his own aggressive attitude.
Pedro went back to his usual pattern of fading away for whatever reason.

Stoner--OMG. This race was for him to win!

Overall, the usual Lottery Wet Race. Unreal scenes like Stoner and Hayden being lapped reminded one this wasn't a 'real' race.

In the end, Dovi himself would have preferred a 'real' win, I'm sure.
De Puniet was probably deserving it more today...

Just got back from Donington, what a strange day!!! Only the GOAT can crash and still finish infront of his main rivals!! Well done to Scott for his 3rd place in the 125cc even though it was a bit of a shambolic event!! I love Donington as a race track, but as for getting away from the damn place!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But in the end, Dovi, Edwards, DePuniet, really?
Go easy on the Dovi! Riding slicks to the finish line in today's conditions is not something to sniff at - case in point Lorenzo and Rossi.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just don’t think people are willing to accept that the result could have easily been a DNF. Then those Ducati guys wouldn’t look so stupid, eh.
If Rossi had had a DNF then those Ducati guys would still look stupid Jumk. I know you're blinded by loyalty but if ROssi's lever had broken and he'd been unable to continue, it wouldn't alter the fact that Casey made a bad choice which resulted in him earning 1 point in a race which he could otherwise have been running at the front.
After the race this is what Suppo said and I'll quote it verbatim in Italian "Potevamo fare un figurone o potevamo fare una figuraccia ed abbiamo fatto una figuraccia" which more or less translates to 'we could've looked really good or we could have looked really foolish and we looked really foolish".
On an aside, it seems to me to be a pity that Ducati are no longer maintaining the 'it's all about the bike' attitude they had when they put Rossi off signing back in 2004. If they'd signed Rossi and given him the free rein that Stoner seems to have then they'd be unbeatable now. Meh....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jul 26 2009, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Doesn't it ring a bell--Rossi Loses the Rear on a Silly Bend to the Left... His usual mistake

At least this time he didn't compound it with his usual Wrong Decision in a Wet Race--i.e. he did not go in for a bike swap when rain got worse. Good choice.

Lorenzo, as usual, was defeated by his own aggressive attitude.
Pedro went back to his usual pattern of fading away for whatever reason.

Stoner--OMG. This race was for him to win!

Overall, the usual Lottery Wet Race. Unreal scenes like Stoner and Hayden being lapped reminded one this wasn't a 'real' race.

In the end, Dovi himself would have preferred a 'real' win, I'm sure.
De Puniet was probably deserving it more today...
Totally agree with you. and re Dovi yes I gathered as much from the post race interview as he himself admitted it was not a normal race. However that does not detract from the merit of today's race. He was out on slicks, stayed out, kept his ... in the saddle and kept his cool. I wouldn't say today's win was undeserved. He was out there in the same conditions as everyone else and he's the one who crossed the finish line first.

Oh and in case anyone is wondering what Rossi was telling Dovi when he stopped to congratulate him on their cooldown lap after the race....
Rossi told Dovi that Dovi owes him ten Euro for services rendered in pulling him to 13 seconds ahead of the competition before crashing out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True. I agree with you buddy. But I doubt this was part of Rossi’s calculation in gambling to stay on slicks. The thing is that people are applauding some gambles and not others, depending on their colored glasses. So, perhaps that was part of his plan all along. Gamble staying out on slicks and if a crash happens, he had the confidence that his lever wouldn't break because it was soggy?


i think if he crashed earlier he would have swapped bikes for rain tyres but after his crash it was to late and swapping would have put him further back possition wise, he prob thought that he could secure his current possition or move up the order slightly to salvage some points after picking up the bike and realising there was hardly any damage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jul 26 2009, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since when wanting to <u>win</u> so much became greedy? I don´t get you mate! And who did not want the win? Lorenzo wanted it so much too, he was not been greedy. In both there’s a difference between ambition and greed.



This I agree with you!



Luck smiles him I say. But we are happy with 5th after all.

we are glad for 5th

i know there is a difference on both, maybe greedy was the wrong word... but both lorenzo and rossi must have known the risk's but you got lorenzo pushing to abit to hard and taking a tumble and rossi trying to pick up the pace to shake off dovi...... i just think that if rossi blocked dovi then maybe he wouldnt have slid out instead of trying to up his laptime to get away.

but at the end of the day rossi salvaged some good points.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick.. Rossi.. 46 No1... @ Jul 26 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I love Donington as a race track, but as for getting away from the damn place!!


The 30 minute drive home took over 3 hours today.

Still worth it though - the atmosphere at Starkeys infield was great, though it did quiet down a bit after Rossi crashed.

I think it meant more to Rossi to be the last Donington winner than the 25 points that came with it. I'm surprised he didn't let Dovizioso past and follow him for a while before making a move.

good race, was at the edge of my seat rooting for either edawrds or randy to win it, only to see a privateer team win a race. Great race.

Dovi - great job following Rossi, and responding at the end to take his first win
Colin - sayin i am too old for this .... on BBC was class
Randy was over the moon getting a third place.
Rossi - lucky guy, a bit of rain made the guys ahead switch bikes
Lorenzo - unlucky, but i am pretty sure he will still push very hard (and by the sound of his interview he is moving to honda, cause while Rossi is around he will be the number 2 rider in yamaha)
Pedrosa - they said he might move to yamaha
JT - great job, fighting for a spot at yamaha
Stoner - massive gamble,didn't work out at the end. He is not far behind, he can still catch up. Livio Suppo was not a happy man afterwards, great and honest interview calling his team idiots. Gotta love Casey though saying that there is nobody to blame for the tyre choice, despite ducati pushing really hard for him not to gamble today.
Its funny how everyone seem to think that Rossi is very lucky, i guess people forget 2006 and 2007 very quickly.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok, I gotta go now. But in conclusion, Ducati had to take a gamble to advance on Yamaha. This was a calculated risk, had it not been for one little clutch lever staying in tact, the gamble would have paid off. It was a wise decision considering that both Yamahas would have had DNFs, turns out only one had a no finish. Its not enough for Stoner to finish one or two positions above Rossi, so they gambled. It didn't pay off.

Yamaha took a gamble by starting on slicks, it was a failure for both factory riders resulting in CRASHES FOR BOTH (fact)! One was able to continue--providence (or for the non believer, happenstance)! The gamble paid off.

When a gamble pays off is does not inherently mean its a wise or unwise risk. Ducati's gamble almost paid off, any reasonable person could see that with the very likely hood of two DNFs by rivals (just happened to be one).

This argument should not be understood as a dig at any rider, especially Rossi and Stoner. Both did what they had to do, Stoner needed to take a big risk, Rossi only needed to play it save, Lorenzo had to do what Rossi does no matter what, both on same ..... All three did exactly this. Some got pay off some lost out. Kudos to all three, and all the rest of the riders for trying to make the best of their championship chances.

i wouldnt worry to much...

ok stoner and nicky made a mistake by picking rain tyres but you cant blame either as you cant predict the weather.
but like you say if it rained then it would have been a dam goood choice...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Jul 26 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think it meant more to Rossi to be the last Donington winner than the 25 points that came with it. I'm surprised he didn't let Dovizioso past and follow him for a while before making a move.

Hindsight - always 20/20 Just before he crashed Rossi was probably thinking:
Hey - if Dovizioso can sit on my ... like that no problema . . . I can't be riding over
the edge! Then - whoops......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 26 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok, I gotta go now. But in conclusion, Ducati had to take a gamble to advance on Yamaha. This was a calculated risk, had it not been for one little clutch lever staying in tact, the gamble would have paid off. It was a wise decision considering that both Yamahas would have had DNFs, turns out only one had a no finish. Its not enough for Stoner to finish one or two positions above Rossi, so they gambled. It didn't pay off.

Yamaha took a gamble by starting on slicks, it was a failure for both factory riders resulting in CRASHES FOR BOTH (fact)! One was able to continue--providence (or for the non believer, happenstance)! The gamble paid off.

When a gamble pays off is does not inherently mean its a wise or unwise risk. Ducati's gamble almost paid off, any reasonable person could see that with the very likely hood of two DNFs by rivals (just happened to be one).

This argument should not be understood as a dig at any rider, especially Rossi and Stoner. Both did what they had to do, Stoner needed to take a big risk, Rossi only needed to play it save, Lorenzo had to do what Rossi does no matter what, both on same ..... All three did exactly this. Some got pay off some lost out. Kudos to all three, and all the rest of the riders for trying to make the best of their championship chances.
Jumkie i also disagree with you on this one.Yamaha never took any gamble in this race, at the point when race started there was only one logical and obvious tyre choice which was softer slick tyres and most of the teams went for this option apart from ducati.

As for as Loranzo and Rossi crashes are concern, they both made mistakes and paid the price like any other race.

If yamaha riders started there race on harder tyres thinking SUN will be out in next 5 mins and track temprature will rise upto 35 degrees then you could have said that they too took the gamble as well.Your blind loyalty to ducati and stoner is just making you look stupid now so please stop defending them because they are not defending themselfs on this one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 26 2009, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hindsight - always 20/20 Just before he crashed Rossi was probably thinking:
Hey - if Dovizioso can sit on my ... like that no problema . . . I can't be riding over
the edge! Then - whoops......
Thats why i was very surprised why he didn't let Dovi pass and follow him around, it was very unlike Rossi i have to admit.Normally in these kind of conditions there is always leading rider crashes which he did.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Jul 26 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie i also disagree with you on this one.Yamaha never took any gamble in this race, at the point when race started there was only one logical and obvious tyre choice which was softer slick tyres and most of the teams went for this option apart from ducati.

As for as Loranzo and Rossi crashes are concern, they both made mistakes and paid the price like any other race.

If yamaha riders started there race on harder tyres thinking SUN will be out in next 5 mins and track temprature will rise upto 35 degrees then you could have said that they too took the gamble as well.Your blind loyalty to ducati and stoner is just making you look stupid now so please stop defending them because they are not defending themselfs on this one.

Re-read the post you're quoting. There's a big difference between a calculated risk
and a stupid gamble.

Both the Yamaha riders and the Ducati riders took calculated risks. Both suffered as a result.
Ducati took the bigger risk and overall - suffered the greater loss.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Jul 26 2009, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats why i was very surprised why he didn't let Dovi pass and follow him around, it was very unlike Rossi i have to admit.Normally in these kind of conditions there is always leading rider crashes which he did.

Doubtless Rossi knew his tires were shot. He didn't think Dovi
had the huevos to pass him - and today, he wasn't putting on a show -
like he might have in the dry. He didn't fancy the idea of
having to re-pass a hungry Dovizioso on greasy chunking tires.
I think Rossi rode as conservatively as possible under the
circumstances.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 26 2009, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Re-read the post you're quoting. There's a big difference between a calculated risk
and a stupid gamble.

Both the Yamaha riders and the Ducati riders took calculated risks. Both suffered as a result.
Ducati took the bigger risk and overall - suffered the greater loss.
I think you need to read my post again, tell me how come yamaha took any gamble when there was only one logical and obvious tyre choice was available at the start of the race and which they went with.