Jumkie
3578861376112370
Im replying via my .... Droid app on the phone. A reply to u rates me being in front of my computer mustering every bit of technical and reference material at my disposal. Given im on vacation, consider this reply a weak cursory installment. 1. No sir, im not neglecting to address this "the other way around". I find no purpose it would serve me as I contend its the results in the current parity reality that colors our conclusions. Switch Alvaro for Marc and Marc is not leading the championship if everything else remainded the same in my estimation. I dont think I have to defend here what others might perceive as disparaging or not recognizing the specialness of Marc. I was most impressed with him at Laguna. Track knowledge means something here, and not so much for the Corkscrew but rather for turn 1, and linking together turns 2-4 & 5-6. But...im also cognizant that his win was achieved while an injured Pedro & Lorenzo where unable to mount a challenge. Otherwise the kid comes third. Sure, impressive enuf had this been the case, but not quite the gratuitous god status that a win produces. On Alvaros bike all year would have likely meant no wins. And frankly Arrabi, he would then be debated as has Cal. And that is my point! Think this through with me a bit. Here is a great example, next year unless Bridgestone is pressured into redeveloping a Duc friendly tire, I predict Cals results will drop. (Btw, the new softer tire might already be a carmelo clause gift...we will see). Stop will the debate at what he might have achieved on a factory M1. We debate it now because we percieve he has earned the results via inferior equipment to the 4 top factory seats. If we are to believe the tank design hampered him in the opening laps, then its conceivable Cal might have notched a win! Stop and think for a moment with me what the far reaching consequence of such an achievement would have reverberated in the paddock! Not since 06 has a satellite won a race, and that was done on SNS as we later learned. A tank designed to give Cal the performance advantage that Lorenzo has (I mean if we are to believe Cal & Kropo who swear it makes a difference, and im not being sarcastic here--I wouldnt even attempt it directly replying to u for fear of a proper prose lashing); then surely it would have given him a serious run for a win when he lost out to Marc by something near a second, or Pedro to a runner up spot. Spawned were several threads discussing the merits of Cals achievement and debate whether he deserved a full factory bike. Especially given the debate over engine power which appeared to disadvantage him against the power of the factory RCVs. Why dont we have similar debates about Marc? Well, if he were on Alvaro's bike I certainly believe we would have had similar discussions. No way would we have been saying Marc is the greatest of all time elect, just as much as we are now not saying Cal is a future champ of MotoGP. Had Cal won a couple of races as might have been likely given his noteworthy performance on a disadvantaged M1, the narative and debates change...and possibly so do his prospects. Now those attempting to refute, marginalize, and rationalize the facilitation of Spanish riders by saying the sudden elimination of the rookie rule was not part of Dorna/Repsol machinates must consider, if the rule applied as it did to others, Marc very well might have landed on Alvaro's bike. Then the senario I described above would have been much closer to that narrative. U want me to entertain the points classification if Marc & Alvaro exchanged seats (that is Alvaro gets Marc's current factory crew too where Marc gets Alvaro's satellite crew), then Alvaro might not have been leading but neither would Marc! My scenario then still holds more likelyhood, we would be debating Marc as we have Cal, and Alvaro as we have Rossi. Pedro would have led Lorenzo. Cal and Marc would have had some battles, which given Cal's form would have beaten Marc on similar days given Marc would have contended on Nissin brakes and Showa suspension. 2. "Exploiting full factory support". Well I don't know, this is a tuff one because how could we know if its the fully staffed support OR the rider? Valentino has full factory support, yet its translated into getting embarrassed by Cal on occasion, and one win given tbe caveat while Lorenzo was one day removed from surgery and Pedro had a sustained brain fart, both off form. We wouldn't lump VR in the list of those who cant exploit full factory support would we? Spies? Well, his factory support was responsible for sending him out on a cracked frame, defective visor, granaded engine, cottage cheese swingarm, and a square tire to boot. Lorenzo has "exploited" support but then again the swingarm his crew affixed to his intact chassis was never a thought for confidence depletion. Find me a rider that doesn't say confidence is everything. Pedro, have we had the pleasure of comparing his results from not having a full dedicated works staff with significant series influence? Bradl? Well curiously we debate just how "factory" is his factory bike. So honestly, I cant say with certainty if Cal given full factory support, and more importantly, factory colors, wouldn't have notched a couple of wins this year. I can tell u that given factory politics, HRC wouldn't have been to keen on a GoFun satellite Honda beating their works badged RCV. Perhaps Barros or Roberts Jr. could speak to this a bit. 3. "Lorenzo and Marquez seats cannot simply be reduced to passport". Of course not. ..its much more complicated! But the underlying favoritism is undeniable and is far reaching both subtly and blatantly. Race direction repeatedly turned a blind eye to last year's Moto2 favorite son. Some of his antics were suspendable the previous 2 years. I contend politics interviened. U may believe otherwise. Ok, not a stretch as RD have been weak on safety (ah the irony). Trying to naje the case the sudden disappearance of the rookie rule as not part of Spanish-centric politics would take much convincing for me to buy. That is...directly linked to passport my friend..sprinkled with a bit of happenstance. Stoners resignation helped make Dorna's decision to scrap the rookie rule that much easier. Dont think for a minute Repsol/Dorna were not hot on the trail to fill that seat with a Spaniard. Not sure if the charm from that pig on Green Acres could convince me. Nonetheless, No disappearance of the Rookie Rule then Marc is forced to a satellite Honda. If that happens,the scenario I described in 2. plays out. (All written on my dumbfone, so I hope BJC doesn't cite me on gramer.)
My old friend. For the purposes of this forum I am contemplating re- christening you as 'mymexican'. Not that this unholy alliance would ever tempt you to preach the liturgy of Lex or after so many years reopen the vaults of the Lex Files, but alarmingly you do seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet of late.
I concede, you make many robust points to bolster and buttress your contentions but much like our Texan friend, the theoretical foundation which underpins the case you are attempting to construct is built on the shifting sands of sophistry as opposed to the bedrock and cornerstones of immutable and ineluctable evidence.
Nationality plays a significant part in paddock politics - of course it does, but it does not always or invariably overlook talent or greater commercial interest. Should we however be in anyway surprised when we detect a Spanish bias, particularly in view of the fact that as BJC correctly pointed out, that afterall, they did see fit to purchase the bloody series. For all Dorna's meddling and micro-mangement, for all their myopia, not to embrace an international perspective and pursue a holistic global strategy would be suicidal as a business.
If we are however to hypothetically model any useful scenario then indeed it should be the suggestion posited by Povol concerning how a rider of Bautista's calibre would fare should Marquez's full factory ride and resources have been availed to him. You make a very good point however regarding the repeal of the rookie ruling and that had this barrier not been removed then Marquez would have been languishing for a year in ghastly garish Gresini Go and Fun green. Had that rule not been revoked and reversed in a timely manner by <strike>HRC</strike> sorry, Dorna, then yes their great white hope would have been consigned to a 1 year contract in line with the rules within a satellite squad. You really think for one second though that the bike would have been the same? You can tell me given the politics that HRC wouldn't have a Go and Fun bike beating their works badged RCV..I recall a San Carlo machine and several Telefonica liveries that went pretty well, not to mention a nice little Nastro Azzurro number that was no stranger itself to Parc Ferme. Yeah the Rookie rule was circumvented via a hint of Spanish flavoured politics - nobody to my knowledge has refuted that and also pressure from the sponsor...which yes, is also Spanish. Had this not been the case Marquez would still be on a factory bike irrespective of his nationality, because that's what's HRC want - and here lies the nub of the argument. They don't want Baustista on a fully fledged factory bike because quite simply he isn't on the level of Marc Marquez. Suspend the Spanish - centric politics for a second here, the reason Marco Simoncelli - an Italian was given a full factory contract with HRC on a Gresini bike is because they wanted him. Sure, it was an Italian team and an Italian sponsor, but it was a full factory Honda. But Marquez didn't end up on the Gresini machine did he, why?
It was HRC not as you suppose Dorna that pushed to veto the rookie rule and get Marquez on the full factory RCV. Notwithstanding nationality the only Spanish interest was primarily the sponsor.
Stick Marc on the Go and Fun machine and I disagree with you, Marquez would be challenging Lorenzo and Pedrosa...but then as I said the machine would not be the same spec by virtue of its owners so we have hit another moot point.
Let's do the reverse then, and return to the prospect of Alvaro on a Repsol ride, because I contend that the reason you find no purpose in modelling such a scenario is because at the heart of this debate is that the term 'alien' is anathematic to you...perhaps rightly so, perhaps not. Perhaps it's just the popular lazy label or tag adopted by naive casual observes of the sport that buy into the hype without appreciating the politics that so justifiably irks you. Or is it just the fact that to me the term is predicated upon talent alone. In view of this I understand why you think it pointless to switch this around. After all - four 'aliens' coincidentally riding the four best motorcycles on the grid - so let's see how they fare on lesser machines. To a certain extent we did when Valentino's vanity dealt him the Desmo and his career spectacularly backfired - for the first time in his career having to overcome significant handicap in machinery.
But, you have conceded that Bautista would not be capable given the machinery of replicating the results of Dani and Marc and i think that is contrary to your belief, very relevant to this debate. I ask you then, who could? Remove Marc Marquez and Dani Pedrosa, who would you replace them with? Right now, who can step up to the mantle? No one can set up and ride that M1 the way that Jorge does. To Cal's credit, he's relegated his gung-ho style to the distant past and is desperately trying to figure out Jorge's technique. Doing it your way - hand Marquez Bautista's bike and I guarantee you that he'll ride it faster and as Casey did prior to signing with Ducati, perhaps at times beyond its limits, in a unique gifted style which betrays huge talent potential and attracts immediate interest form both factories and sponsors irrespective of nationality. He's simply better than the 'second tier riders'. He's better than Bradl, better than Crutchlow, better than Dovi and he's better than Bautista and he's a ....... rookie. You've already argued that he's better than Pedrosa so of the remaining two coveted rides, that leaves Rossi and Lorenzo. I believe all things equal he has the measure of Valentino now, Jorge? - ......he's damn good isn't he. See what i mean. (On the subject of Crutchlow, discussion around the issue of the fuel tank is extremely complex. Are you aware that Valentino was requesting that configuration? It seems to impede Cal during the first quarter of the race when it is laden but there is no doubt that it has been greatly beneficial to him this season in improving front end feel, not least in the wet at Le Mans).
Alongside this, the entire thrust of your argument appears to be that Spanish riders are favourably nurtured and supported often at the expense of more deserving talent which is criminally overlooked. Yes, undoubtably this has happened, alongside the allegations of corruption and fixing, but Dorna's acquisition of the series had brought with it many positivities and benefits which often float over the heads of the collective unconsciousness comprising forum communities. I think it far more significant and indeed sinister/insidious, the substantial influence that HRC exert on both the championship and the MSMA and the possible future ramifications of this. I'd rather embrace the King of Spain and sing proudly, or rather in the absence of words, hum the Marcha Real every morning thrice before breakfast for the rest of my life thereby celebrating Spanish sovereignty over the series for all eternity than see the Evil Empire exert its will. Unfortunately it invariably does and for that reason should be far more the focus of a protracted political debate such as this than the issues of Spanish nationalism and perceived protectionism.
