Cal: down the duke drain.

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Jumkie
3577701376001709

As far as u know, are Monster demanding to sign American riders? Here is a funfact Krops. Im on vacation in DC. Did u know in the 70s only 3% of former congressman and senators became lobbyist, today 50 percent become lobbyist. What does that tell you about how business is conducted? I chose to call it highjacking, u can call it paying for...it amounts to the same ..... Only special interests are served.


 


You misinterpret the situation.


 


Forty years ago we spent 70% the federal budget on middle class productivity, like military, agriculture, energy development, and infrastructure. These programs were a huge boon to American workers, and corporations benefitted. Today we spend 70% of the federal budget on charity. Poverty has not declined. Being old is not any easier. Despite 300% higher public per capita healthcare spending than many Western European nations, US life expectancy is still lower than most of Western Europe. 


 


This public spending transition has dumped a majority of productivity expenses on the middle class (debt) and American companies. If you are a corporation, you need an army of lobbyists to protect you from the people who never seem to realize this arrangement is not working.
 
Jumkie
3577551375990187

I keep saying .... like this and people keep trying to call me out as some conspiracy theorist....


You'll be telling us they never went to the moon next...


 


14579:uploadfromtaptalk13759343912691.jpg]


 


On the contrary, as you know I lend a great deal of credence to your thoughts my good friend. That Moto GP is not a meritocracy, that vested interests artificially skew and sully the series is beyond doubt and generally accepted by anyone with more than a cursory interest in the sport. I am the first to advocate filtering 'facts' through a degree of sceptical reserve but find some of the more fanciful forum shoehorning tiresome.  


 


Sure, over the last decade in particular, there are those bandwagon jumpers (largely attired in yellow - many of whom appear to have jumped off as quickly as they jumped on), who have no understanding of the sport, no appreciation of the pedigree and the history of the championship and take it purely at face value oblivious to the machiavellian machinations burrowing, contorting and twisting beneath the surface...but sometimes you really don't have to dig too deep to unearth this. On the other hand, the armchair conjecture amongst some lurches from the comical to the absurd. Throughout the last five years the level of unfounded speculation and exploration abounding on this board has been verging on ludicrous and so way off the 'Marc' (sic). As ever, when you pick the brain of someone significant, informed and on the coal face instead of superficially and blindly scratching away at the surface - (as Wilski was able to do flying from Austin to Chicago), you mine for the real gems and nuggets as opposed to the fools gold panning on Powerslide - and the truth is often wierder than the rumour mongering. Similarly - as Jum himself will attest to - some members on here once shared a few beers over an evening with some Ducati personnel in an airport hotel bar..what they learnt rendered all those 'what's up with the Ducati' threads postulated and populated by the resident Powerslide 'engineer' fraternity embarrassingly superfluous.


 


Ironically some of the worst conspiracy culprits on here seem to be the ones who themselves were intent on denigrating Stoner for speaking his mind and exposing some of the dirt. In many ways Stoner is quite unprecedented in this modern era of 'Goebbels-esque' paddock propagenda carefully fed through obedient P/R programmed puppets and orchestrated media schooled clones. Alberto's vision of The Dorna Academy/Rookies Cup (of which Casey himself is ironically a graduate of) is more akin to the Hitler Youth.  I can think of no other rider that could stir up the .... storm that he did and yet still be welcomed back with a blank cheque signed by HRC. That's how good he was - and HRC run the circus and the MSMA remember? The Japs don't forget - they ...... up Sheene for good and they never forgot this either....


 


14578:631121.jpg]


 


Which lead many to speculate last season before the revelation of the Yam deal, that even with a move brokered by a forked tongue and lubricated by a slippery Dorna subsidy the door at Honda would remain shut - at best a satellite deal bankrolled by the series and Coca-Cola money. It's like allowing your ex back having formerly been cheated on, only to find that they're impotent...Yamaha clearly have no pride!


 


Stoner never openly slurred Honda true, but behind the scenes his recalcitrant behaviour, rejection of PR and dislike of testing obligations was almost Biaggi like at times. I've always got the impression that his team probably heaved a huge collective sigh of relief when he announced his retirement. They absolutely adore working with Marquez but like Freddie before him - Stoner is always going to be the main man.


 


Anyway - I digress, back to the point...and whilst on the subject of Marquez, did you know that the chassis of his Moto 2 bike which was supposedly developed by Suter, although protected from scrutineering by bending the rules, was found by an investigative journalist to contain composites of an extra terrestrial source.  The entire frame and motorcycle was actually fabricated in a hangar deep in Area 51 the electronics and internals were of similarly unearthly origins. In spite of his unfeasible speed all season, the plasma drive was only used once out of necessity when relegated to the back of the grid at Valencia. Dorna are part of the worldwide illuminati New World Order and thus highly affiliated on Capitol Hill - (hence the existence of three U.S. GP's). Carmello Ezpeleta is actually a large reptilian shapeshifting species of hermaphrodite from the planet Kalex. 
 

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Jumkie
3577701376001709

As far as u know, are Monster demanding to sign American riders?
Monster tried to get an American rider into Moto2, but decided it was too expensive, teams were asking too much money.
 
mylexicon
3577711376004025

Please. Xerox Europe funded a Ducati team that was dominated by an Australian. How many Brits rode for Castrol Honda? Sterilgarda backed Spies though he had little or nothing to do with Italy. Monster started off sponsoring a home town bro at Kawasaki, but they've branched out, and they don't force Americans into Tech 3, though they could easily put someone like Hayes on the bike and send Bradley home.
 
You've written several articles on the perils of sucking up to tobacco sponsors. Sucking up to Spanish sponsors can't be any better.
I don't think anyone is sucking up to Spanish sponsors. I think Spanish sponsors are easier to find, because a lot of the teams are Spanish, and it's easier to sell deals in your own language than in a foreign language. Yes, the sport is dominated by Spaniards, but that's because nobody else is putting the effort and money into the sport. The AMA has done nothing for the sport, Stuart Higgs in BSB is more focused on replacing WSBK than helping British riders into Grand Prix (in fact, he is actively trying to prevent riders from defecting, as it devalues his championship, and means he makes less money), and the only championships working on getting riders into Grand Prix are the CEV (owned by Dorna) and the CIV, because the Italians believe in Grand Prix racing.

Does MotoGP rely too much on Spanish money? It surely does. Because only in Spain do they love the sport sufficiently to pour money into it. MotoGP is a national, popular sport in Spain, and only a marginal niche sport just about everywhere else in the world. Hell, more people watch WSBK in the Netherlands (population 16 million) than they do in the US (population 300 million).

If you hate this situation, then the easiest way to fix it is to make the sport more appealing to casual fans. Or to put it in the words of the venerable Jumkie, turn it into MotoWWE. Only by increasing audiences in the US, the rest of Europe, Australia, Southeast Asia, South America will money start to flood in from those regions to drive out the Spanish money. With more money, the focus will be more on talent and less on the amount of money you can raise to ride. This is what Ezpeleta is trying to achieve.

Alternatively, MotoGP can fall back to being a niche sport everywhere, with minuscule budgets and no TV coverage. But it will be pure.
 
Kropotkin
3578001376049003

I don't think anyone is sucking up to Spanish sponsors. I think Spanish sponsors are easier to find, because a lot of the teams are Spanish, and it's easier to sell deals in your own language than in a foreign language. Yes, the sport is dominated by Spaniards, but that's because nobody else is putting the effort and money into the sport. The AMA has done nothing for the sport, Stuart Higgs in BSB is more focused on replacing WSBK than helping British riders into Grand Prix (in fact, he is actively trying to prevent riders from defecting, as it devalues his championship, and means he makes less money), and the only championships working on getting riders into Grand Prix are the CEV (owned by Dorna) and the CIV, because the Italians believe in Grand Prix racing.


Does MotoGP rely too much on Spanish money? It surely does. Because only in Spain do they love the sport sufficiently to pour money into it. MotoGP is a national, popular sport in Spain, and only a marginal niche sport just about everywhere else in the world. Hell, more people watch WSBK in the Netherlands (population 16 million) than they do in the US (population 300 million).


If you hate this situation, then the easiest way to fix it is to make the sport more appealing to casual fans. Or to put it in the words of the venerable Jumkie, turn it into MotoWWE. Only by increasing audiences in the US, the rest of Europe, Australia, Southeast Asia, South America will money start to flood in from those regions to drive out the Spanish money. With more money, the focus will be more on talent and less on the amount of money you can raise to ride. This is what Ezpeleta is trying to achieve.


Alternatively, MotoGP can fall back to being a niche sport everywhere, with minuscule budgets and no TV coverage. But it will be pure.


Alternative hypothesis: Motogp has actually lost appeal everywhere except Itlay and Spain because it has been tinkered with to be more appealing to the casual fans, and because TV coverage has become worse.


 


If it were up to me, I'd say take the money out, keep it a niche sport. Lower the cost of the broadcasting rights, get (mainland) Eurosport to broadcast again. 
 
stiefel
3578021376050516

Alternative hypothesis: Motogp has actually lost appeal everywhere except Itlay and Spain because it has been tinkered with to be more appealing to the casual fans, and because TV coverage has become worse.
 
If it were up to me, I'd say take the money out, keep it a niche sport. Lower the cost of the broadcasting rights, get (mainland) Eurosport to broadcast again.
What would then happen is that it would be an almost entirely European sport, and everyone on here would be bitching about not being able to watch it, because Eurosport decided to show crown green bowling instead. (Of korfbal of zoiets).
 
"On the other hand, the armchair conjecture amongst some lurches from the comical to the absurd. Throughout the last five years the level of unfounded speculation and exploration abounding on this board has been verging on ludicrous and so way off the 'Marc' (sic). As ever, when you pick the brain of someone significant, informed and on the coal face instead of superficially and blindly scratching away at the surface - (as Wilski was able to do flying from Austin to Chicago), you mine for the real gems and nuggets as opposed to the fools gold panning on Powerslide - and the truth is often wierder than the rumour mongering. Similarly - as Jum himself will attest to - some members on here once shared a few beers over an evening with some Ducati personnel in an airport hotel bar..what they learnt rendered all those 'what's up with the Ducati' threads postulated and populated by the resident Powerslide 'engineer' fraternity embarrassingly superfluous."


 


...........................................................


"Stoner never openly slurred Honda true, but behind the scenes his recalcitrant behaviour, rejection of PR and dislike of testing obligations was almost Biaggi like at times. I've always got the impression that his team probably heaved a huge collective sigh of relief when he announced his retirement. They absolutely adore working with Marquez but like Freddie before him - Stoner is always going to be the main man."


 


Always a  pleasure to read anything you write Arrabb, the fluidity and eloquence of your prose alone being sufficient in itself.


 


 


I am very interested in and would give absolute credence to anything you or Willski heard from insiders about either the problems of Ducati's bike or Stoner' s behaviour at Honda behind closed doors. In regard to the latter I am sure he tried his crew's patience at times, but Gabbarini in particular stuck with him for at least 8 years by my count, and can't have found him to be all bad. The only real appreciation he showed to anyone around his retirement (an indictment in itself I guess) was to his crew, whom he said in an interview in Australian Motor Cycle News he would really miss in his retirement.  
 
L8Braker
3577981376047999

Jum's, Arrabi, it's always a pleasure reading your posts.


It's all staged for your entertainment...much like Sheene and Roberts ;)
 
Kropotkin
3578041376050890

What would then happen is that it would be an almost entirely European sport, and everyone on here would be bitching about not being able to watch it, because Eurosport decided to show crown green bowling instead. (Of korfbal of zoiets).
I did not mean exlusive broadcasting right, of course.

As I gather, tv coverage in the US is .... anyway. Lowering the fees is not going to help there. But I think it would be a huge mistake to NASCARify the sport to get US audiences. The US market is always going to be like a looming pot of gold to European based racing series, but it never really seems to work out. And I don't believe we need to turn the sport into more of spectacle to get the rest of the world interested. It was plenty popular in South America and Austrialia previously. I think claiming that we need to dumb it down to help it grow in South East Asia would also be a bit of an insult against the intelligence of those potential fans.

Eurosport does have a nasty habit of programming godafwul stuff when they should be showing racing. But these things could be contractually arranged I think.
 
michaelm
3578051376051384

I am very interested in and would give absolute credence to anything you or Willski heard from insiders about either the problems of Ducati's bike or Stoner' s behaviour at Honda behind closed doors. In regard to the latter I am sure he tried his crew's patience at times, but Gabbarini in particular stuck with him for at least 8 years by my count, and can't have found him to be all bad. The only real appreciation he showed to anyone around his retirement (an indictment in itself I guess) was to his crew, whom he said in an interview in Australian Motor Cycle News he would really miss in his retirement.  


Without divulging too much, Wills sat next to someone who was once worked in a closely designated role aligned to Casey at Ducati. What was far more illuminating was his insight into paddock politics and  issues surrounding riders and manufacturers which your average forum self appointed 'expert' would have no appreciation or comprehension of. Unfortunately instead of grilling him further on this, all Wilski was interested in was obtaining Hector Barbera's cell phone number.
 
stiefel
3578071376052183

Eurosport does have a nasty habit of programming godafwul stuff when they should be showing racing. But these things could be contractually arranged I think.
They can only be contractually arranged if the broadcaster believes there is an added value in doing so. If Eurosport decide snooker is more important than motorcycle racing, then they will show snooker. If motorcycle racing is a niche sport, then Eurosport will always choose to show snooker rather than motorcycle racing. It's simple economics.
 
Kropotkin
3578091376052598

They can only be contractually arranged if the broadcaster believes there is an added value in doing so. If Eurosport decide snooker is more important than motorcycle racing, then they will show snooker. If motorcycle racing is a niche sport, then Eurosport will always choose to show snooker rather than motorcycle racing. It's simple economics.
I don't know how tv rights work in practice. But it seems odd to me that mandatory live broadcasting could not be contractually stipulated. And if the price is right, why would Eurosport not agree? Simple economics.
 
Kropotkin
3578091376052598

They can only be contractually arranged if the broadcaster believes there is an added value in doing so. If Eurosport decide snooker is more important than motorcycle racing, then they will show snooker. If motorcycle racing is a niche sport, then Eurosport will always choose to show snooker rather than motorcycle racing. It's simple economics.


It goes both ways though, in that more participation from riders other than from Spain would possibly raise interest in countries other than Spain.


 


As I recall the live  coverage in Australia began in 1986 when there were only 3 commercial stations with single channels, and no more than 2 public broadcast channels. This was when Gardner was competing but before he won the championship, and continued until the days of cable etc, admittedly mostly with Australians competing in the premier class.
 
michaelm
3578111376053146

It goes both ways though, in that more participation from riders other than from Spain would possibly raise interest in countries other than Spain.
And that is why Dorna is actively favoring non-Spaniards and trying to get rid of some of the Spanish dead wood floating around in MotoGP. And why Ezpeleta was livid with Yamaha when he heard Jarvis had signed Pol Esparagaro.
 
stiefel
3578101376052928

I don't know how tv rights work in practice. But it seems odd to me that mandatory live broadcasting could not be contractually stipulated. And if the price is right, why would Eurosport not agree? Simple economics.
If motorcycle racing is a niche sport, and not as popular as snooker, if Dorna demands that Eurosport broadcast MotoGP (or WSBK), then Eurosport will tell them to piss off. They could be making more money from commercials by showing snooker.
 
Kropotkin
3578131376053353

If motorcycle racing is a niche sport, and not as popular as snooker, if Dorna demands that Eurosport broadcast MotoGP (or WSBK), then Eurosport will tell them to piss off. They could be making more money from commercials by showing snooker.
Under the assumption that

(A earings from commercials during snooker - B cost of snooker tv rights)>(C earnings from commercials during motogp - D cost of motogp tv rights)

My contention is that if D is sufficiently low, this inequality could turn into an equality, and in the long run, better tv coverage can increase C.
 
I keep saying .... like this and people keep trying to call me out as some conspiracy theorist....
You'll be telling us they never went to the moon next...

14579:uploadfromtaptalk13759343912691.jpg]

On the contrary, as you know I lend a great deal of credence to your thoughts my good friend. That Moto GP is not a meritocracy, that vested interests artificially skew and sully the series is beyond doubt and generally accepted by anyone with more than a cursory interest in the sport. I am the first to advocate filtering 'facts' through a degree of sceptical reserve but find some of the more fanciful forum shoehorning tiresome.

Sure, over the last decade in particular, there are those bandwagon jumpers (largely attired in yellow - many of whom appear to have jumped off as quickly as they jumped on), who have no understanding of the sport, no appreciation of the pedigree and the history of the championship and take it purely at face value oblivious to the machiavellian machinations burrowing, contorting and twisting beneath the surface...but sometimes you really don't have to dig too deep to unearth this. On the other hand, the armchair conjecture amongst some lurches from the comical to the absurd. Throughout the last five years the level of unfounded speculation and exploration abounding on this board has been verging on ludicrous and so way off the 'Marc' (sic). As ever, when you pick the brain of someone significant, informed and on the coal face instead of superficially and blindly scratching away at the surface - (as Wilski was able to do flying from Austin to Chicago), you mine for the real gems and nuggets as opposed to the fools gold panning on Powerslide - and the truth is often wierder than the rumour mongering. Similarly - as Jum himself will attest to - some members on here once shared a few beers over an evening with some Ducati personnel in an airport hotel bar..what they learnt rendered all those 'what's up with the Ducati' threads postulated and populated by the resident Powerslide 'engineer' fraternity embarrassingly superfluous.

Ironically some of the worse conspiracy culprits on here seem to be the ones who themselves were intent on denigrating Stoner for speaking his mind and exposing some of the dirt. In many ways Stoner is quite unprecedented in this modern era of 'Goebbels-esque' paddock propagenda carefully fed through obedient P/R programmed puppets and orchestrated media schooled clones. Alberto's vision of The Dorna Academy/Rookies Cup (of which Casey himself is ironically a graduate of) is more akin to the Hitler Youth. I can think of no other rider that could stir up the .... storm that he did and yet still be welcomed back with a blank cheque signed by HRC. That's how good he was - and HRC run the circus and the MSMA remember? The Japs don't forget - they ...... up Sheene for good and they never forgot this either....

14578:631121.jpg]

Which lead many to speculate last season before the revelation of the Yam deal, that even with a move brokered by a forked tongue and lubricated by a slippery Dorna subsidy the door at Honda would remain shut - at best a satellite deal bankrolled by the series and Coca-Cola money. It's like allowing your ex back having formerly been cheated on, only to find that they're impotent...Yamaha clearly have no pride!

Stoner never openly slurred Honda true, but behind the scenes his recalcitrant behaviour, rejection of PR and dislike of testing obligations was almost Biaggi like at times. I've always got the impression that his team probably heaved a huge collective sigh of relief when he announced his retirement. They absolutely adore working with Marquez but like Freddie before him - Stoner is always going to be the main man.

Anyway - I digress, back to the point...and whilst on the subject of Marquez, did you know that the chassis of his Moto 2 bike which was supposedly developed by Suter, although protected from scrutineering by bending the rules, was found by an investigative journalist to contain composites of an extra terrestrial source. The entire frame and motorcycle was actually fabricated in a hangar deep in Area 51 the electronics and internals were of similarly unearthly origins. In spite of his unfeasible speed all season, the plasma drive was only used once out of necessity when relegated to the back of the grid at Valencia. Dorna are part of the worldwide illuminati New World Order and thus highly affiliated on Capitol Hill - (hence the existence of three U.S. GP's). Carmello Ezpeleta is actually a large reptilian shapeshifting species of hermaphrodite from the planet Kalex.

By pure luck I was unfortunate enough to sit next to a guy on the flight from the Austin GP to Chicago. He was wearing team clothing, so I got chatting to him. He was a pretty shy kinda guy who had worked in GP for a good few years. A significant part of this was at Factory level. He is currently one of the senior tech guys for a championship front runner. He was a bit reluctant to talk about his job because he was conscious of sounding aloof and above me. Once he knew I was interested in talking about what he and the team did, not necessarily about say Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Marquez or whoever, then he really provided me with an insight into the GP paddock. Spent two hours asking him all sorts of stuff ( I did apologise for grilling him after what was probably a long weekend at work for him ) but he said no problems. So I carried on asking questions.
It was that interesting I made notes of the whole lot.

I have never posted any of the content of the conversation on PS for a couple of reasons

Don't want you lot to think I was name dropping.
Don't want you lot to think I was professing to be a technical expert.
The subject matter was told to me by a guy who obviously knows more than probably most of us and I didn't want his feedback being taken apart and probably debated to death because it might not be what some peeps on here want to believe etc etc

As Arrab said above, to me, this guy provided some real gems which I found so interesting !

Sorry if this sounds stupid !

Had a chat with Arrab about it and he just absorbed what was said and was like " amazing, this guy will know better than us, sounds perfectly feasible " that sort of stuff

I am still in contact with this guy on a regular basis and hopefully will be catching up with him at Silverstone again !
 
stiefel
3578141376054256

Under the assumption that

(A earings from commercials during snooker - B cost of snooker tv rights)>(C earnings from commercials during motogp - D cost of motogp tv rights)

My contention is that if D is sufficiently low, this inequality could turn into an equality, and in the long run, better tv coverage can increase C.
And my contention is that if C is sufficiently low, the value you include for D is irrelevant. Niche sports attract little or no TV advertising.

What I think we both agree on is that it is a very difficult balancing act to get right.
 
Willski
3578161376055049

By pure luck I was unfortunate enough to sit next to a guy on the flight from the Austin GP to Chicago. He was wearing team clothing, so I got chatting to him. He was a pretty shy kinda guy who had worked in GP for a good few years. A significant part of this was at Factory level. He is currently one of the senior tech guys for a championship front runner. He was a bit reluctant to talk about his job because he was conscious of sounding aloof and above me. Once he knew I was interested in talking about what he and the team did, not necessarily about say Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Marquez or whoever, then he really provided me with an insight into the GP paddock. Spent two hours asking him all sorts of stuff ( I did apologise for grilling him after what was probably a long weekend at work for him ) but he said no problems. So I carried on asking questions. It was that interesting I made notes of the whole lot. I have never posted any of the content of the conversation on PS for a couple of reasons Don't want you lot to think I was name dropping. Don't want you lot to think I was professing to be a technical expert. The subject matter was told to me by a guy who obviously knows more than probably most of us and I didn't want his feedback being taken apart and probably debated to death because it might not be what some peeps on here want to believe etc etc As Arrab said above, to me, this guy provided some real gems which I found so interesting ! Sorry if this sounds stupid ! Had a chat with Arrab about it and he just absorbed what was said and was like " amazing, this guy will know better than us, sounds perfectly feasible " that sort of stuff I am still in contact with this guy on a regular basis and hopefully will be catching up with him at Silverstone again !
There are some wonderful people in the paddock (and unsurprisingly, the technical people in the paddock tend to be the nicest). And there are some right ....... arseholes. You were lucky to be sitting next to the right kind.
 

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