povol
3576031375797123
Jum has painted himself into a corner and is doubling down on his silly theory that Marquez is nothing special, ...
You've attempted to change the argument as you have done in the past when you cannot carry your point. This is not a debate about Marquez, its about the Spanish highjacking of the sport. I say: 'the Spanish are favoring the Spanish and here are the reasons' your response is, 'yeah but Marc is great'. So all you and a few others read was: Marc is ..... I bet you had fun riding to school on the short bus.
Despite how special Marquez is he still needs the very best to allow him the performance and confidence to achieve what he is achieving. Performance parity has become a super critical element of results. You ..... see it day in and day out in the races when a rider gets a minor set up wrong and can't battle for the win. You can dream up in your mind that Marc would win on a vespa and repeat he is "special" as if that is the point, but that is not the reality of the sport. Marquez is insane, brave, talented, and confident, but he is not superhuman and must still be subject to the constraints of the machine he rides. Of the four on win worthy bikes, he does get the most of the package (say similar to Stoner), but the reality of this sport is that minor disadvantages mean no win against 3 other riders that may have got it right. Why is this such a difficult concept for you and others to understand? Its exactly what has happened to VR so far, that is: dealing with minor disadvantages (of various kinds) that have translated into what we describe as a ordinary human performance (podiums and near podiums) despite one win. Despite this he is still a top world rider is he not...aided by a win worthy bike that accounts for his results.
Arrabbiata1
3576071375802019
I agree entirely..although elements of Jum's contention that the annointed few are for a myriad of reasons consistently conferred the best equipment is in part equally as valid.
What has always amazed me about Marquez is his insane ability...
Yours and the Word of God are two of the few opinions I respect...and frankly I just visited the National Museum of Natural History, and they basically said Creationism is ......... Again, this is not a debate about Marquez. Its about the blatant ushering of Spaniards into the sport by direct and indirect means! My contention is that the League facilitates by various means from providing certain sponsors more ear and air time to outright removing barriers (or should I say rules) and by this virtue place Spanish riders on the best platform for results. Those results are then taken as sole evidence that these were deserving--a cycle that needs a bit of scrutiny. That Marc is an outlier on that conveyor belt of of favoritism does not refute my contention.
Separate debate: We can talk about how special Marc is, but as you said, he'd be looking at podiums rather than outright wins on Alvaro's bike. The reality of our human perceptions would then be, 'hey, that kid is good', but certainly not, 'that kid is god'. Btw, we'd also be debating just how close to the factory spec Alvaro's bike is, that is, coupling the result with the parity of the bike, with the factory RCV no such debate needed. We formulate this opinion based on the parity of everything around him! Pov said he'd have still won the races he did regardless on the GoFun bike. You agree? In Austin he barely edged out Pedro on a works. You think he would have beat Pedro on Alvaro's bike (which finished behind a Ducati? So I doubt a win there. In Sausagering he edged out Cal by a second or so, this while Jlo injured, so I doubt a win there too. You see, you have to account for the slight performance disadvantage while the others remain on their works bikes. Laguna is probably the only place I think Marc might have had a chance at a win on Avlaro's bike...with the caveat that Pedro and Jlo were both injured, otherwise no way is he beating Pedro or Jlo on Alvaro's bike. So it highly unlikely he would have notched any wins on the GoFun, regardless of how much you love their livery. Then what would have been everybody's opinion? It probably would have went something like this...'that kid is a fantastic rookie to have finished on the podium on a satelite bike...but we have to wait and see if he is god.' Uhm...wait for what? Oh, to see him on the best bike on the grid surrounded by the best staff, on the most reliable, funded, suited machine...then we can all declare, he is god.
Arrabbiata1
3576081375802204
Sorry Jum, you trivialise this. Initially the softer carcass tyre was a major problem - one which Stoner largely rode around and unlike Dani, (with the exception of Sachsenring) was beginning to surmount before the solution was rolled out at Laguna.
Disagree sir. What was my point? That a minor performance disadvantage makes supposed superhuman riders appear like ordinary humans. Btw, you may recall that Stoner is the only rider that I would describe with this lazy moniker of "alien" status. But even an "alien" can't mitigate a tire that others are using if it doesn't suit him...or are we gonna argue that Lorenzo wasn't using this very same tire to win against Casey? Keeping in mind that this was an effect for the overall title.
Edit to add: I would not characterize it as a "major" problem, as Casey didn't finish off the podium in the first four races, with two of those wins. That is...with the "chatter" problems. You and I had a nice little exchange regarding the 12 RCV vs the M1. I contended that despite the last minute changes, the HRC machine was still the best machine (however small the advantage was). The "softer carcass" tire was not a problem for the better first half unless wins and podiums are a "problem". Both factory Honda riders sited the chatter as a limiting performance factor to make a championship run. I think this dovetails nicely with my contention that minor (you may call them "major" and would actually advance my point) performance advantages and disadvantages can make our perceptions of rider's as extraordinary or ordinary.
Again...my point is this, parity makes for many superficial opinions and perceptions about the rider's pecking order. If one of these four japanese factory riders had any less equipment they would not be on par with the other 3. Then suddenly we wouldn't be talking about the odd man out in such lofty terms. This applies to all four of the Japanese factory riders...some more than others.
