Ben Spies MotoGp Failure ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
Wow!

Ben has had so many mechanicals that he should have about well over 53 points than he does now. Haga has had 0. So Spies basically won the championship in his rookie year. JT never did. Ben also has more race wins than JT did in his 2 title wins combined. So, he's a better rider. Also, Camier is a great rider too.

Ben could easily fail. He's got 2 years on the best bike and is a better supersport rider than SBK. Chances are he wont fail.

SBK will welcome him back with open arms if GP's give him the boot.

One of the best WSBK riders in the history of the world on the best machine in the paddock. Don't worry about Ben.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Alleged superbike phenomenon...

Your about as sharp as a marble...Pinky style

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am curious as to what forum thinks would happen if Ben Spies was a flop in MotoGP ?
Alleged superbike phenomenon, yet still only 2nd in the championship ? Still being beaten by Haga, a man who James Toseland (MotoGP failure )beat every season he raced him both on 2 cylinders and 4 cylinder machines..
Maybe the skill is shown by his results on the R1, the only yam making results in WSBK then the others R1s are ridden by David Checa, Tom Sykes, and erwan nigon, none of which set the world alight !
But the R1 is a proven winner by leon camier is BSB !
What will happen to Spies if he has the problems James Toseland has had this year ? I think he'll struggle, and I think the Motosport Press and Yamaha have Hyped him up so much that Ben has a long way to fall.
Good luck Spies, the world awaits !! And america too !

Camier doesn't ride against any factory Ducatis. Furthermore, while I think there is reason to be cautious about his potential in GP (mainly due to his size), Spies has been forced to deal with quite a few mechanical failures.

Spies had 2 mechanical DNFs, one at Monza in Race 1 (fuel computer snafu) and one mechanical DNF at Kyalami.

I'm not going to count crashes and things b/c Spies was punted by Biaggi in PI and taken out by Fabrizio in Brno. Spies has also crashed twice on his own accord. Haga has been hit by a bird and he had the 50/50 with Rea at Nurburgring. He also crashed twice on his own, once during Miller practice resulting in poor results and again at Donnington which also resulted in poor results in subsequent events.

The entire crash situation seems to equal out, but the 2 mechanical DNFs are the major difference in this contest. Spies has got 13 wins to Haga's 7. That should be a 30 point edge to Spies, but instead, Spies is 10 pts down (40pts from where you would expect). The two mechanical DNFs probably cost him a win at Monza (25pts) and a 3rd place at Kyalami (16pts) for a loss of 41 pts.

The mechanical DNFs are the difference in the championship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am curious as to what forum thinks would happen if Ben Spies was a flop in MotoGP ?
Alleged superbike phenomenon, yet still only 2nd in the championship ? Still being beaten by Haga, a man who James Toseland (MotoGP failure )beat every season he raced him both on 2 cylinders and 4 cylinder machines..

Incorrect.

JT beat Haga in three seasons (2004, 2006, 2007), Haga beat JT in two seasons (2002, 2005) of competition.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe the skill is shown by his results on the R1, the only yam making results in WSBK then the others R1s are ridden by David Checa, Tom Sykes, and erwan nigon, none of which set the world alight !
But the R1 is a proven winner by leon camier is BSB !

A salient point and one that people need look no further back than 2007 where one rider on a specific machine dominated by comparison to other riders of that machine and while yes, some credit the machine the vast general begrudging consensus has since shifted to talent being the difference.

For me, (and not calling Spies a new CS either) his season in WSBK to be parrallels remarkably that of Stoner in 2007 in regards to the performances of their respective team-mates and whilst I would love to see Spies in WSBK in 2010 to again compare, it is clear that he has the ability and approach for MotoGP.

Basically and simply, as someone who credits Stoner for 2007 I have no problems crediting Spies with 2009 (irrespective of end result) and will happily say that he is a bloody good talent, but yes time will tell ultimately.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What will happen to Spies if he has the problems James Toseland has had this year ? I think he'll struggle, and I think the Motosport Press and Yamaha have Hyped him up so much that Ben has a long way to fall.
Good luck Spies, the world awaits !! And america too !

Yes, if he fails he will fall a long way, that is a certainty as he is much hyped, but at the same time he is much hyped based on results attained over a number of years and having been seen in MotoGP already.

Toseland on the other hand was hyped yes, but many also questioned his results given the era in which they had been attained (ie. competition) but that is not to take anything away either, as he was deserving but sadly it has not worked out.

The other important factor for mine is the sheer bloody mindedness that Spies seems to posses which strikes me as similar to many of the world seriously top races, wheras others just seem to lack, he seems to have oodles of confidence, attitude and drive.

I was an initial doubter given I had not seen enough of him, but simply put the kid is good, very very good and better than most if not all who have tried the WSBK - MotoGP route





Gaz

Dion - look at it this way... throw away all the hype, .... throw away his phenomenal WSBK rookie season... Spies STILL deserves a shot at MGP based on his cup-o-coffee on the Suzuki last year...

So if Ben's a flop... who cares? At least there's fresh meat and no more crew chief stealin', underachievin', ...-handed-to-him-at-every-race by his geriatric teammate POM wastin' valuable MGP seat space...

I think again folks are putting too much expectation on some riders. Yeah if you expect him to enter MGP and win then your expectations of Ben may make him a failure for you.


BUT ......... the guy already has the attitude whereby he cannot fail! ie. as he himself said just being in MGP is an amazing thing in its own. Sounds like he has his head screwed on right to me.


Its not Spies who will fail, its some folks expectations that may fail.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 6 2009, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ben could easily fail. He's got 2 years on the best bike and is a better supersport rider than SBK. Chances are he wont fail.

SBK will welcome him back with open arms if GP's give him the boot.


He is a better supersport rider? I thought his last supersport campaign, 2006?, was somewhat lackluster in comparison to his superbike performance?

If Spies doesn't make it in GP, he will probably go back to WSBK and most likely have a great career, commanding a large salary and riding motorcycles for a living. That would hardly be "falling a long way."

The thread starter pointed out the fact that Spies is second in points to Haga, a rider whom James Toseland beat for the WSBK title twice. Let's keep in mind that this is Spies' first season at the world level. He has had to learn how to ride new circuits and how to race unfamiliar riders, all while adjusting to a new team, motorcycle, and international lifestyle.

Regardless of what happens at Portimao, Ben Spies' rookie WSBK season has been a huge success!

In the Few wild cards Ben had on the ...... suzuki in Moto gp he did Ok. So I take it that on the M1 he is going to be ok. I doubt he will be ahead of the Big 4 (46 99 27 3) but he will definetly be ahead of cannepa Tlamasci Kallio and Espargo I see him mid pack with Collin Bautista and Caparex. Maybe even a Podium if we have another race like Donington 09.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Oct 7 2009, 01:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The thread starter pointed out the fact that Spies is second in points to Haga, a rider whom James Toseland beat for the WSBK title twice.

Ironically Haga lost 2007 because of technical problems with his Yamaha and to fair, in 2004 Haga was the fastest satellite rider on his Rengade Ducati behind Toseland and Laconi who rode the works Fila Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 6 2009, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The entire crash situation seems to equal out, but the 2 mechanical DNFs are the major difference in this contest. Spies has got 13 wins to Haga's 7. That should be a 30 point edge to Spies, but instead, Spies is 10 pts down (40pts from where you would expect). The two mechanical DNFs probably cost him a win at Monza (25pts) and a 3rd place at Kyalami (16pts) for a loss of 41 pts.

The mechanical DNFs are the difference in the championship.

To be fair, Spies had an <u>18</u> points lead 2 races ago, now he kinda hasn't.

It's difficult to say how one of the greatest WSBK talents ever will do as a rookie in Motogp, seeing as the last one really was the one he will be replacing. Though i am pretty confident to say he will do pretty damn good.
The same can be said about the other rookies ofcourse, though i'm not as confident to say that about some of the other machinery.

cant remember who as a ex-superbike rider in recent yrs has done well in motogp.?
(colin no wins) (vermu 1 win was he on the right bike)
(haga did he have 1 season then dropped) (bayliss so so) (JT not done a lot)

and as a rookie was getting podiums.so will that change with Ben.on a tech3 prob not

then look at dovi ex 250 then motogp sat team now factory team its still the 4 up front

when rossi retires lets say end of 2010.even with Ben on a factory yam with rossi retired
we might then get the usual 3 on the podium.Boring

i think the other SAT teams bikes are getting better than the tech3 bikes so i dont expect a lot from the tech3 bike next yr

if Ben fails im sure he'll pick up a seat in motogp somewhere.if yam drop him but surely hes penciled in for rossi's seat when he retires.that will be ben's win or bust time

but if he fails will the teams stick to picking 250/moto2 riders up. as wsbk riders cant hack it
and now 250's have gone from next yr will that riding style be lost forever and the talent with it
will moto2 breed the future of moto gp..?

motogp might go through a bad time in the next few yrs

i hope the races dont become snorefests with the usual suspects up front.

Call it a hunch - but it's been my feeling that Spies has wrung much more performance
out of (what seems to me) an underperforming WSBK Yamaha. I'm betting he'll do the
same with the satellite M1. I fully expect him to do better than Edwards pretty much from
the start. Re: his Superbike riding style . . . my feeling is that Ben is a very adaptable
animal. He's a very calculating rider and should be able to adjust all the variables.

where's my troll spray


Ben in a couple of wildcard races last year on the pos suzuki did better than has JT in 2 ....... years on the good M1... if it weren't for break downs and fablitzio he'd be way ahead of Haga in points...even Haga knows he aint got .... for Spies brother..

Spies will be a success in MotoGP and Yamaha will celebrate. End of story. The next person who doubts Bens abilities will be eating dirty ..... in .... sauce.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 6 2009, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Monza Race 1 15
Brno Race 1 RT
Kyalami Race 2 RT
Assen Race 2 RT
Valencia Race 1 RT

I believe only Assen and Valencia were his fault.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am curious as to what forum thinks would happen if Ben Spies was a flop in MotoGP ?
Alleged superbike phenomenon, yet still only 2nd in the championship ? Still being beaten by Haga...

Though I think your question is fair, I think you need to first follow the WSBK series a bit more deeply before you make such a shallow premise. Spies has consistently beaten Haga except when experiencing some equipment issue. Infact, I can only think of twice that Haga has won races (Imola & S. Africa--assuming you want to call those venues straight up).

Perhaps you have not considered that while Haga was "beating" Spies in those very rare occasions, Spies was quite literally "learning" the track.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>a man who James Toseland (MotoGP failure )beat every season he raced him both on 2 cylinders and 4 cylinder machines..

Well lets not even talk about Toesland's Ducati title, but his Honda one was more comparative, of which he barely edged out Haga. This is quite different in that Spies has schooled Haga every races except for a very rare few, that means that for much of the season when Spies bike didn't quit, then Spies won, period. Very unlike the Toes vs Haga comparison.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Tom Sykes, and erwan nigon, none of which set the world alight !

Sykes has been unfairly judged because Spies is a freak. But less you forget, Sykes is a rookie to the series, and he has had a string of respectable top 10s all year. If Spies would have been normal, then Sykes would not look so far off.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>What will happen to Spies if he has the problems James Toseland has had this year ? I think he'll struggle, and I think the Motosport Press and Yamaha have Hyped him up so much that Ben has a long way to fall.
Good luck Spies, the world awaits !! And america too !

Ok, now this is a fair question. Yes, he could very well struggle, and for sure he has been hyped up that surely unless he's in the top 5 straight away he will be deemed as overrated by some. Personally, I think Toesland was the victim of a perfect storm and should have been given one more year. Consider that James started year one of GP fairly impressive and in fact scored a string of 6ths. He had a lack luster 2nd year. Anyway regarding Spies, though your question is fair, there is not much to discuss really. Its simple, if he doesn't perform then he will surely be replaced and perhaps return to WSBK.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 7 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Though I think your question is fair, I think you need to first follow the WSBK series a bit more deeply before you make such a shallow premise. Spies has consistently beaten Haga except when experiencing some equipment issue. Infact, I can only think of twice that Haga has won races (Imola & S. Africa--assuming you want to call those venues straight up).

Spies was schooled pretty badly in race 2 at Valencia.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Oct 7 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies was schooled pretty badly in race 2 at Valencia.
Spies came 2nd. Yeah, that's getting schooled "badly"