2025 Silly Season

JPSLotus said:

Toprak on the other hand I think might just be the right rider for the bike.

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I wouldn’t put it past Toprak to win the WSBK title this year on the Beamer, waltz into MotoGP and win the first race on that dog of a Honda.

synn said:

I wouldn’t put it past Toprak to win the WSBK title this year on the Beamer, waltz into MotoGP and win the first race on that dog of a Honda.

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I saw this post on Reddit, I admit I don't follow WSBK anywhere near as closely as GP. But if those technical details are true, I am absolutely fascinated. Don't mind the spelling issues. I only care about the content.

who else is riding a stock or sbk bikes like toprak? let me tell you ; no one!

no one can even try and replicate his style. he has an unique style that he can use with any brand. So far, he proved that he can adapt his unique and agressive riding style to kawasaki, yamaha and BMW of which each of them is different than each other. therefore all professionals and managers are sure that toprak can find a way to ride those gp bikes wheel off.

stiffer chassis; i am just laughing at this argument. because this shows that you don't know what differences toprak's sbk bike has which is not avaiable on other riders bike. the chassis of his bike is reinforced with addionatl weldings and brakets to make it stiffer. because toprak or any other rider likes any flex. as he rides and brakes agressively (up to 20bar on the handle!) , his bike flexes so much. he always needs extra reinforcement to make it steady and rigid. he also mentioned after his gp test, he likes carbon brakes and rigid chassis.

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JPSLotus said:

I saw this post on Reddit, I admit I don't follow WSBK anywhere near as closely as GP. But if those technical details are true, I am absolutely fascinated. Don't mind the spelling issues. I only care about the content.

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I do watch SBK regularly, and I agree with most of that.

The only thing I might raise is, Toprak likes to push the front HARD and make the front tyre dance. Which works great with the Pirellis. The Michelins have a much harder construction, so his strongest weapon will be blunted.

But if there’s a rider who can crack that code, it’s Toprak.

Meanwhile Iker Lekuona, who has full time MotoGP experience, has done races on the RCV and is actually part of Honda’s WSBK outfit…

michaelm said:

That was before Ducati were in the Audi/VW stable, and I also agree with Lex that Honda straight out disapprove of aero on bikes as a matter of bike engineering principle.

I can remember Honda saying a few years back they could make or had made a bike with aero which was much faster but which fatigued the rider within a lap. The current aero GP bikes aren’t quite at that level, but current riders (? Alex Espargaro) have complained about them being more tiring to ride.

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Adiran Newey has said the same in F1. With unrestricted rules, drivers would need G suits for the forces they could pull and the tracks would likely be torn to hell.

synn said:

Wow. Mir renewing with HRC may not be a done deal yet.
GPone is reporting that HRC is trying to sign Toprak. Now THAT would be a coup!
Article is in Italian, you’ll have to use Google translate.

https://m.gpone.com/it/2024/06/21/s...gp.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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JPSLotus said:

I woke up 5 minutes ago to a news article that Kenan was expecting Toprak to try and get into GP for 2025.

I nearly choked when I saw that. I nearly choked again reading what you posted about HRC trying to sign him. I actually think that would be a great move for Honda since Mir is not a rider who belongs on the RC213V. There's nothing about that bike that fits his riding style. Toprak on the other hand I think might just be the right rider for the bike

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I'm alwys been lead to believe that Toprak's style is too wild for a modern GP bike. He tends to move around a lot, which aero GP bikes don;t respond well to. I don;t know the details but didn't he unimpress on his last GP test for Yamaha?

synn said:

I do watch SBK regularly, and I agree with most of that.

The only thing I might raise is, Toprak likes to push the front HARD and make the front tyre dance. Which works great with the Pirellis. The Michelins have a much harder construction, so his strongest weapon will be blunted.

But if there’s a rider who can crack that code, it’s Toprak.

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Also, isn't the Honda front end awful now? It used to be a strong point up until 2021, but the 22- bike has more rear bias to account for the Michelins not being as strong on the front.

synn said:

Meanwhile Iker Lekuona, who has full time MotoGP experience, has done races on the RCV and is actually part of Honda’s WSBK outfit…


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I'd forgotten about him, poor guy.

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#22 said:

Also, isn't the Honda front end awful now? It used to be a strong point up until 2021, but the 22- bike has more rear bias to account for the Michelins not being as strong on the front.

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yes it is, the RCV has proven to be the final boss to many a rider; will have to see if Toprak can buck that trend.

#22 said:

I'm alwys been lead to believe that Toprak's style is too wild for a modern GP bike. He tends to move around a lot, which aero GP bikes don;t respond well to. I don;t know the details but didn't he unimpress on his last GP test for Yamaha?

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From the comfort of my couch, the Gigicycle absolutely needs to be ridden as Gigi dictates; the KTM doesn’t mind being fast and loose and getting backed into the corner, and the Aprilia is more of a corner speed bike like the old M1.

On paper, Toprak is best suited to the KTM.

He did have an underwhelming test with Yamaha; his argument was that they brought a seat unit that was too high for him, Yamaha said it’s because he couldn’t get used to the chassis and tyre behavior.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

synn said:

Meanwhile Iker Lekuona, who has full time MotoGP experience, has done races on the RCV and is actually part of Honda’s WSBK outfit…


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While I laugh at this, seriously, Lecuona got screwed in GP. He's a fantastic rider who was never given a proper chance in GP. I've been of the opinion that with a little bit of time he adapts extremely well to motorcycles, but he's not the sort like Marc where they are just fast out of the gate on everything they ride.

#22 said:

I'm alwys been lead to believe that Toprak's style is too wild for a modern GP bike. He tends to move around a lot, which aero GP bikes don;t respond well to. I don;t know the details but didn't he unimpress on his last GP test for Yamaha?

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I don't think it is, he reminds me a bit of a younger MM with how much the bike moves around. Even with the aero I noticed Marc still gets more movement than most riders, but he's also an alien doing alien things regardless of machinery. But the thing I marvel at with MM compared to any of the other riders is how he locks that front tire on corner entry. I can't even imagine having that much faith in the front end of a bike. I've braked so hard on some bikes that I could feel the front tire flattening out, but to be doing this corner after corner, lap after lap, I couldn't trust it the way guys like Marc and Toprak do.

synn said:

From the comfort of my couch, the Gigicycle absolutely needs to be ridden as Gigi dictates; the KTM doesn’t mind being fast and loose and getting backed into the corner, and the Aprilia is more of a corner speed bike like the old M1.

On paper, Toprak is best suited to the KTM.

He did have an underwhelming test with Yamaha; his argument was that they brought a seat unit that was too high for him, Yamaha said it’s because he couldn’t get used to the chassis and tyre behavior.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

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Marc seems to have bucked the trend with the Gigicycle as he's also riding how he wants to at times. I do wonder what the data for him looks like relative to Pecco and Jorge as I'd love to know what all of them are doing compared to one another. I think how you describe the KTM is why I don't understand Vinales going there. He's better suited to corner speed machines like the old M1 and the Aprilia. I'm actually getting excited now to see Jorge Martin on the Aprilia because I think he's going to get far more out of that bike than either Mav or Aleix were ever able to. Not that it's a perfect bike, but I don't feel the results overall are indicative of what the RS-GP can do. I'm going to make a prediction that the KTM is going to be what boots Mav out of GP for good. He's going to be the 4th fastest rider on that bike, and the daggers from Pit Beirer are going to be out in short order if he isn't performing. Mind-bogglingly stupid move on his part IMO.

Toprak's M1 test was complete ......... Yamaha had no serious intention of ever putting him on one of their GP bikes, and it showed by what I consider the overall lack of preparation that seemed to be put into that test on their end. A guy with that much talent can adjust to a GP chassis and tire behavior, but where the M1 was overall at the time of that test, it wasn't indicative of anything in my eyes.

Great picture of Toprak absolutely bending the M1000RR to his will. I am praying we see him on a GP bike in 2025.

JPSLotus said:

But the thing I marvel at with MM compared to any of the other riders is how he locks that front tire on corner entry.

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Bastianini is another guy who started doing this in Moto2 and carried that skill over to MotoGP, but he hasn’t been healthy enough to do it consistently in the premiere class.

I’m sure he’ll get up to speed on the KTM, arguably sooner than Viñales, for the reasons you mentioned above.

JPSLotus said:

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Great picture of Toprak absolutely bending the M1000RR to his will. I am praying we see him on a GP bike in 2025.

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The only time an M1000RR looked pretty was when Toprak bent spacetime around it.

JPSLotus said:

While I laugh at this, seriously, Lecuona got screwed in GP. He's a fantastic rider who was never given a proper chance in GP. I've been of the opinion that with a little bit of time he adapts extremely well to motorcycles, but he's not the sort like Marc where they are just fast out of the gate on everything they ride.

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He is still young though. I seem to recall him perhaps being promoted to MotoGP a little early? And yes, not given a proper chance. I wonder how he'd do on a Satellite Aprilia. I know it will never happen, just thinking out loud.

JPSLotus said:

Great picture of Toprak absolutely bending the M1000RR to his will. I am praying we see him on a GP bike in 2025.

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Toprak in MotoGP would be awesome. That said, a part of me feels perhaps his time has gone. If he does make the jump, I hope he leaves WSBK as champion with BMW (I hope this regardless). From my layman's standpoint, I think Keenan has done a really good job in guiding Toprak's career. I'm assuming his salary with BMW is significantly larger than it was with Yamaha, and if it's true HRC is looking at Toprak, they (HRC) probably have a blank check waiting for him. Not sure I want to see him end his racing career on the Honda.

I really hope if Toprak goes to MotoGP, he does NOT go to Honda...

Kenan has put together the Turkish version of the VR46 academy.
Every member is absolute box office on their day, but none have yet put it all together like Toprak has.

Deniz could be the next one to watch out for, IMO.

synn said:

Kenan has put together the Turkish version of the VR46 academy.
Every member is absolute box office on their day, but none have yet put it all together like Toprak has.

Deniz could be the next one to watch out for, IMO.

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Deniz is there or thereabouts, but he's not yet really stepped up. His only championship win that I know of was the Asia Talent Cup in 2017. In Moto3 and Moto2, his best championship result so far is 4th. He was in Moto3 for five years, and doesn't lack experience. Riders can take a sudden step up, but I've not yet seen that from Deniz.

JPSLotus said:

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Great picture of Toprak absolutely bending the M1000RR to his will. I am praying we see him on a GP bike in 2025.

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Ducati should give him a GP ride