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You appeared to suggest the decision is made without any input from Rossi. I very much doubt that is the case.
That is not at all what I said. Read again.
All decisions are made with “Inputs” from Rossi. However, this decision was made in the favor of the sponsors and the people who are running the team on a day to day basis.

I have made this point repeatedly and have no interest to drag this on anymore. Happy to join the discussion again when another topic, more pertinent to the thread title comes up.
 
Let's not forget that Lin is closing in on 70, having led Yamaha's operations for a quarter of a century, and now have to deal with at least half the year being track side.

Yamaha before Lin was on a decade long barren spell. Then came the championships with Valentino and Lorenzo.

All as the underdog to Honda, the big brother.

Lin has also managed to steer the Japanese into accepting change, and a lot quicker than Honda.
I don't disagree with any of this but it doesn't change the fact that since 2015, he got more big/important decisions wrong than he did right.
As far as the baron spell goes, Yamaha may not have been won a riders championship before Rossi's arrival in 04 but they had won a constructors championship in 2000, with and Biaggi finished 2nd a bunch of times up against Doohan and Rossi who were just flat out better riders than Biaggi. They weren't as bad as people make it out to be.
 
This is basically what I said.
Rossi’s personal preference was to go to Yamaha, but the team and their sponsors wanted to stay with Ducati for commercial reasons. Commercial reasons won.
No, what you said is that Rossi was Vetoed by Uccio and Nieto. Veto implies that they could overrule him, this is what I and Warthog were disagreeing with. There is no way Rossi would allow either of those two a veto. He is more than happy to take their advice on board though, as you are saying he did.

ETA: Anyway there is no need to continue arguing about this. Simple language misunderstanding here but has been worked through, without name calling and insults.
 
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Still surprised to see Mir sign for another 2 years for Honda, he really seemed to want out of there. I wonder what Honda did to keep him?
 
I don't disagree with any of this but it doesn't change the fact that since 2015, he got more big/important decisions wrong than he did right.
As far as the baron spell goes, Yamaha may not have been won a riders championship before Rossi's arrival in 04 but they had won a constructors championship in 2000, with and Biaggi finished 2nd a bunch of times up against Doohan and Rossi who were just flat out better riders than Biaggi. They weren't as bad as people make it out to be.
Well, after Micheline became the sole tyre, and Honda got hold of Marquez, Yamaha did regress.

Can't see that too much fault lies at Lin's door.

He bet on Viñales. That didn't come off well, although the idea was ok.

Then they bet on Quartararo. That worked well.

His biggest fault might be to loose the satellite team. That was unfortunate.
 
Still surprised to see Mir sign for another 2 years for Honda, he really seemed to want out of there. I wonder what Honda did to keep him?
I guess if you’re changing everything about the project down to the nuts and bolts, having consistency in the rider lineup could help. They did say that Mir gave good feedback (As did Marini and Zarco), so if they are REALLY willing to change, this lineup should help them get there.
 
Interestingly, The Race is reporting that M. Marquez’s biggest personal sponsors (I’m guessing Red Bull, Samsung, Oakley) are in discussions with the Factory Lenovo team to potentially replace some of the existing team sponsors.

This implies two things:
- Marquez could potentially bring in a commercial value equal or greater than the existing sponsorship package; which clarifies why Martin and Bastianini got the boot
- They’re expecting Marquez to stick around for 4-5 years, which justifies breaking ties with long term sponsors.
 
Rossi, all things equal probably wants to stay with Yamaha, but he’s also smart enough to know this means mid pack results for a while.

Maybe that’s a concession he’s willing to make (And one Pramac seemingly will make), but not what the team sponsors want, at least for now.

Things can change and probably will change in a couple of years, but sponsorship is the primary reason they are sticking with Ducati, according to Uccio.

Other parts of the VR46 franchise are similarly segregated. The talent management team is completely separated from the race team to avoid conflicts of interest. This is why they managed to negotiate Marini’s renewal with VR46, and then negotiated a factory deal with HRC (A team that has no love lost for Rossi, incidentally).

To put it in a more succinct way, Rossi makes money off all of this, as he is the owner and founder, but he also is smart enough to put each division in the hands of people who can run them autonomously and make him that money.
Pramac are also at an all time peak of success which can hardly get better except if Martin manages to actually seal the deal and win the title this year, Yamaha are perhaps at an all time peak for wanting a satellite team, Pramac may never get a better offer, and were/are unlikely to get a rider as competitive as Martin unless it was MM, and the murmur was that staying at Ducat was contingent on signing MM.

VR46 are obviously players where they are currently, amd would likely be less so if running mid to lower pack with Yamaha, and Ducati bikes integrate nicely with Italian riders from the riding academy, rather than trying to funnel them in to a mid pack Yamaha team. Valentino even has plausible deniability with Yamaha as he can say his involvement is peripheral while he is involved with the car racing. I don’t see why the team can’t go there later when the bikes are better, and being in demand from both marques may well be ahead of where Pramac is just now, particularly if the academy continues to produce race (and title) winning riders.
 
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I think Martin on the Aprilia will be a force to reckon with.

Sure the bike is still rough around the edges, but anger is a powerful tool when used right.

I think it's all going to come down to what steps they make moving forward regarding the RS-GP. Ditto on Ducati.

Agreed about anger being a powerful tool when used right. I just feel Martin is his own worst enemy and I'm not sure he knows how to utilize that for his own benefit. I just hope he doesn't start overriding the bike to keep up if the GP25's remain the fastest overall bikes.
 
Interestingly, The Race is reporting that M. Marquez’s biggest personal sponsors (I’m guessing Red Bull, Samsung, Oakley) are in discussions with the Factory Lenovo team to potentially replace some of the existing team sponsors.

This implies two things:
- Marquez could potentially bring in a commercial value equal or greater than the existing sponsorship package; which clarifies why Martin and Bastianini got the boot
- They’re expecting Marquez to stick around for 4-5 years, which justifies breaking ties with long term sponsors.

If you're Red Bull and you manage to displace Monster energy at Ducati, that's going to be a hell of a coup. Maybe this is why they haven't really said too much about anything outside of signing Marc - the sponsor negotiations. I'd have to think they would get that sorted out over the summer and hopefully we know what the sponsor situation is in the coming months.

I think you're right about them expecting Marc to be around for more than 2 years. It wouldn't make sense to break existing sponsor deals unless you think he's going to be around for a bit.

There's no one currently on the grid that can match Marc's sponsorship deals.

I don't know, I've got to give Marc credit. I thought he had huge balls on the race track, but didn't realize even at the negotiating table he has absolutely no fear.
 
I don't know, I've got to give Marc credit. I thought he had huge balls on the race track, but didn't realize even at the negotiating table he has absolutely no fear.
This is one of the reasons why the Marquez bros dropped Alzamora. They needed to negotiate outside of HRC and needed someone with sharp teeth.

Interestingly enough, their manager is ex Red Bull marketing.
 
If you're Red Bull and you manage to displace Monster energy at Ducati, that's going to be a hell of a coup. Maybe this is why they haven't really said too much about anything outside of signing Marc - the sponsor negotiations. I'd have to think they would get that sorted out over the summer and hopefully we know what the sponsor situation is in the coming months.

I think you're right about them expecting Marc to be around for more than 2 years. It wouldn't make sense to break existing sponsor deals unless you think he's going to be around for a bit.

There's no one currently on the grid that can match Marc's sponsorship deals.

I don't know, I've got to give Marc credit. I thought he had huge balls on the race track, but didn't realize even at the negotiating table he has absolutely no fear.
Yes, he seems these days to be much more than the hot headed charger he looked to be in 2013, and to play his cards very cannily. He still hasn’t really trashed Honda, while most other riders are happy to have a shot at their employers or equipment from time to time, and even during the 2015 brouhaha was pretty savvy in his personal statements including being the first rider to outright say that Valentino used that element of his fandom as a weapon.
 
Well, after Micheline became the sole tyre, and Honda got hold of Marquez, Yamaha did regress.

Can't see that too much fault lies at Lin's door.

He bet on Viñales. That didn't come off well, although the idea was ok.

Then they bet on Quartararo. That worked well.

His biggest fault might be to loose the satellite team. That was unfortunate.
He also lost the rider that won their last 3 championships, cancelled a party for said rider who won their last championship, let one of his riders completely devalue one of their hard fought championships etc. all down to bad management decisions.
When he ‘bet’ in Vinales, he also let the competition change the tyre, the tyre that clearly suited the championship leader on his team. That potentially cost them another championship in 2017. The whole weight of Yamaha behind Vinales may have let him keep that tyre. Not to mention, Lorenzo probably would have taken the fight to Dovi and Marquez on that years Yamaha.
Losing Lorenzo probably cost them the 2020 championship.
Lin can be blamed for losing Tech3, I’m not sure what happened in the case of Petronas but that, he can’t be blamed for. But it did put Yamaha at a huge disadvantage and unless Pramac decides to sign with them, will continue to do so.
 
I guess if you’re changing everything about the project down to the nuts and bolts, having consistency in the rider lineup could help. They did say that Mir gave good feedback (As did Marini and Zarco), so if they are REALLY willing to change, this lineup should help them get there.
I’m surprised that Mir decided to stay with Honda though, he isn’t getting younger and Honda seem to be completely lost right now.
 
If you're Red Bull and you manage to displace Monster energy at Ducati, that's going to be a hell of a coup. Maybe this is why they haven't really said too much about anything outside of signing Marc - the sponsor negotiations. I'd have to think they would get that sorted out over the summer and hopefully we know what the sponsor situation is in the coming months.

I think you're right about them expecting Marc to be around for more than 2 years. It wouldn't make sense to break existing sponsor deals unless you think he's going to be around for a bit.

There's no one currently on the grid that can match Marc's sponsorship deals.

I don't know, I've got to give Marc credit. I thought he had huge balls on the race track, but didn't realize even at the negotiating table he has absolutely no fear.
He will be 33 at the end of his contract, that’s not old.
Monster hasn’t been a sponsor for that long. I can only see monster on the Ducati livery from last year and this year. They will have to break the contract to change but it’s not a decade long relationship either.
 
Make the latest bike better? Present a better plan? Raise his basic salary? Give him a seat?
For Mir probably all of the above and add to that he didn't land a factory ride elsewhere, at the time of his resigning with Honda there was just one European factory seat left, that being the Apilia one

Looking at the next steps in Silly season;
1. One Aprilia factory seat
2. Survive silly season by signing for any of the remaining satellite seats
 
For Mir probably all of the above and add to that he didn't land a factory ride elsewhere, at the time of his resigning with Honda there was just one European factory seat left, that being the Apilia one

Looking at the next steps in Silly season;
1. One Aprilia factory seat
2. Survive silly season by signing for any of the remaining satellite seats
3. Potential factory Yamaha seat.

Alex Rins reveals planned talks with Yamaha “but nothing on the table” yet
 

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