2025 Silly Season

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Sennas_Caress said:
Until Quartararo starts winning championships again, Yamaha have no-one who is even close to the PR generated by Valentino.
They have no commercial reasons to severe those bonds. Yet.
Click to expand...
PR generated by someone who puts his name and his team on a competitor's bike in preference to a Yamaha?
Doesn't seem he is backing their product too well to me.
"The Yamaha has no chance of winning so I'll run Ducatis instead"
Great advocacy
 
warthog1 said:
PR generated by someone who puts his name and his team on a competitor's bike in preference to a Yamaha?
Doesn't seem he is backing their product too well to me.
"The Yamaha has no chance of winning so I'll run Ducatis instead"
Great advocacy
Click to expand...
As I said before, commercials for the race team (including sponsorship) are negotiated by Uccio and Pablo Nieto, who can and have vetoed Rossi’s preference to go to Yamaha.
 
michaelm said:
Yes, what MM does and what Valentino does even in his retirement seems to have huge ramifications. Basically Ducati have lost two and perhaps 3 elite/race winning riders, and may lose a whole satellite team, to accommodate MM and VR46. I guess they knew what they were doing, and were inevitably going to lose at least one satellite team eventually, but riders of the quality of Martin and Bastianini are far from ubiquitous.
Click to expand...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if Enea Bastianini and Jorge Martin were considered that elite of riders, at least one of them would still be riding a Ducati for 2025. While both are immensely talented, let's be realistic. Enea has not put in any real top flight performances on the factory Ducati seat, not through any fault of his own last season. Mugello was probably his best ride in fairly recent memory, and it was only for P2. I think he's far more talented than a number of riders on the grid, as is the case with Jorge Martin, however neither are alien riders. I suspect Martin has one chance to win a title, and that's this season. However, Pecco seems to be coming into form as I write this, so I expect the points deficit to shrink significantly over the course of the summer, if not outright swap the lead. Then there's Marc. I still don't know what to expect from him over the course of the entire season. If he won the title, I wouldn't be surprised, but if he didn't, I also wouldn't be surprised.

I believe the Aprilia RS-GP is an extremely fast bike, but it doesn't appear to work at every track. Martin I believe is better than the two current riders without a doubt. I expect he will perform very well on the bike, but I can't see him winning a championship with Aprilia. Not with the monster factory Ducati team for next season. His only real hope would be to sneak into the points battle, and somehow hope that Pecco/MM are taking enough points off of each other to allow him to make in-roads. That being said, while I think Pecco has adapted to the aero formula extremely well, I also think MM knows how to get the most out of any bike. He has to be favored for 2025 in my opinion.

Regarding Marc and Valentino, I suppose it is fitting that the two of them still remain to have a huge impact on the sport from seats available to bikes available. I feel like even though the action and results are being determined on the race track, there's a lot of backdoor maneuvering between both respective parties even if one happens to be retired. I think Marc though still has gotten the best of Valentino. I would give a lot of money to have had a camera on Valentino when he found out MM was going to the factory Ducati team just to see his true reaction.
 
JPSLotus said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if Enea Bastianini and Jorge Martin were considered that elite of riders, at least one of them would still be riding a Ducati for 2025. While both are immensely talented, let's be realistic. Enea has not put in any real top flight performances on the factory Ducati seat, not through any fault of his own last season. Mugello was probably his best ride in fairly recent memory, and it was only for P2. I think he's far more talented than a number of riders on the grid, as is the case with Jorge Martin, however neither are alien riders. I suspect Martin has one chance to win a title, and that's this season. However, Pecco seems to be coming into form as I write this, so I expect the points deficit to shrink significantly over the course of the summer, if not outright swap the lead. Then there's Marc. I still don't know what to expect from him over the course of the entire season. If he won the title, I wouldn't be surprised, but if he didn't, I also wouldn't be surprised.

I believe the Aprilia RS-GP is an extremely fast bike, but it doesn't appear to work at every track. Martin I believe is better than the two current riders without a doubt. I expect he will perform very well on the bike, but I can't see him winning a championship with Aprilia. Not with the monster factory Ducati team for next season. His only real hope would be to sneak into the points battle, and somehow hope that Pecco/MM are taking enough points off of each other to allow him to make in-roads. That being said, while I think Pecco has adapted to the aero formula extremely well, I also think MM knows how to get the most out of any bike. He has to be favored for 2025 in my opinion.

Regarding Marc and Valentino, I suppose it is fitting that the two of them still remain to have a huge impact on the sport from seats available to bikes available. I feel like even though the action and results are being determined on the race track, there's a lot of backdoor maneuvering between both respective parties even if one happens to be retired. I think Marc though still has gotten the best of Valentino. I would give a lot of money to have had a camera on Valentino when he found out MM was going to the factory Ducati team just to see his true reaction.
Click to expand...
Sure, I have little doubt that a large part of the decision was that Ducati considered it was more likely that MM could beat them on an Aprilia or KTM than Martin or Bastianini.

I won’t speculate too much because the forum seems to have been functioning well with informative discussion of the current fray rather than of historical gripes, but I have thought along your lines that MM looked both to have been stymied in regard to getting a GP25 at Gresini and to have reasons to reject Pramac as an option, then somehow played his Joker and ended up on the factory team. Valentino is hardly a loser if his team ends up out of all this as the premier satellite Ducati team with current bikes, although there is also an increased chance of MM winning a 7th +/- 8th title I guess if Valentino is still angry about finishing with “only” 7 titles himself.
 
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Seems like only yesterday that Mav was all kissey-kissey on his Aprilla...now he's jumped ship. I don't think the bike will be that different in '25.

Next year will be Marc vs Pecco and Acosta playing spoiler here and there...it's still the Duke cup imo...
 
JPSLotus said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if Enea Bastianini and Jorge Martin were considered that elite of riders, at least one of them would still be riding a Ducati for 2025. While both are immensely talented, let's be realistic. Enea has not put in any real top flight performances on the factory Ducati seat, not through any fault of his own last season. Mugello was probably his best ride in fairly recent memory, and it was only for P2. I think he's far more talented than a number of riders on the grid, as is the case with Jorge Martin, however neither are alien riders. I suspect Martin has one chance to win a title, and that's this season. However, Pecco seems to be coming into form as I write this, so I expect the points deficit to shrink significantly over the course of the summer, if not outright swap the lead. Then there's Marc. I still don't know what to expect from him over the course of the entire season. If he won the title, I wouldn't be surprised, but if he didn't, I also wouldn't be surprised.

I believe the Aprilia RS-GP is an extremely fast bike, but it doesn't appear to work at every track. Martin I believe is better than the two current riders without a doubt. I expect he will perform very well on the bike, but I can't see him winning a championship with Aprilia. Not with the monster factory Ducati team for next season. His only real hope would be to sneak into the points battle, and somehow hope that Pecco/MM are taking enough points off of each other to allow him to make in-roads. That being said, while I think Pecco has adapted to the aero formula extremely well, I also think MM knows how to get the most out of any bike. He has to be favored for 2025 in my opinion.

Regarding Marc and Valentino, I suppose it is fitting that the two of them still remain to have a huge impact on the sport from seats available to bikes available. I feel like even though the action and results are being determined on the race track, there's a lot of backdoor maneuvering between both respective parties even if one happens to be retired. I think Marc though still has gotten the best of Valentino. I would give a lot of money to have had a camera on Valentino when he found out MM was going to the factory Ducati team just to see his true reaction.
Click to expand...

The next two seasons could be interesting regarding the balance of power between KTM, Aprilia and Ducati, particularly between the latter 2 manufacturers. The guestimates about 2027 hint that Aprilia's aero package and philosophy will still be legal because they are using diffuser concepts. The weird lower bodywork on the side fairings that supposedly creates downforce at full lean will still be legal. The ducting they use to draw air around the bike and push it up towards the tail will still be legal. Ducati and KTM, on the other hand, will lose front wing real estate. If the wing end plate is too close to the outer edge of the bodywork, the closed wing design may not efficiently flow air. The leading edge of the front fairing will also get shorter.

Ducati and KTM will probably figure something out, but if they need to change aero strategy that development could factor into the championship during the next 2 seasons. I guess it will depend on how testing goes.

Wish I could remember where I read these thoughts. Social media is making it difficult to catalog sources. It's there for a blink of an eye. If you don't take a screen shot or like it or something, it vanishes into the black hole algorithmic non-recall. Anyway, thoughts are not my own.
 
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mylexicon said:
The guestimates about 2027 hint that Aprilia's aero package and philosophy will still be legal because they are using diffuser concepts. The weird lower bodywork on the side fairings that supposedly creates downforce at full lean will still be legal.
Click to expand...
That’s ground effects, and it leads to much more enjoyable racing because as you rightly pointed out, it comes to play only when the bodywork is close to the ground. I.e no dirty air created on the straights.

The downside of it is that it traps more heat inside the bodywork, which is why the Aprilias struggle in the hotter tracks. But they are working on some solutions for it and from what I read, we might see an update at Silverstone.
 
synn said:
Fermin Aldeguer’s manager commented the other day that if Ducati can’t find a bike for him next year, they’ll have to pay a hefty penalty.

I don’t think it will come to that, there is a vacant seat at Gresini as a fallback, even if Pramac switches loyalty.
Click to expand...
I think others have said it but I'll add my two cents, if it comes down to it, Digi should keep a seat before Morbidelli.
 
warthog1 said:
PR generated by someone who puts his name and his team on a competitor's bike in preference to a Yamaha?
Doesn't seem he is backing their product too well to me.
"The Yamaha has no chance of winning so I'll run Ducatis instead"
Great advocacy
Click to expand...
At my local dealer you have a larger than life smiling Valentino in and with Yamaha gear/bike.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd guess most buyers associate Valentino with Yamaha, while few know anything about the VR46 MotoGP team not running a Yamaha bike.
 
Sennas_Caress said:
At my local dealer you have a larger than life smiling Valentino in and with Yamaha gear/bike.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd guess most buyers associate Valentino with Yamaha, while few know anything about the VR46 MotoGP team not running a Yamaha bike.
Click to expand...
Really? They spend 20k on a sportsbike based on a photo of a bloke who used to ride them but is now involved with a competitors product. They don't know anymore about him than that? I think that is a vanishingly small minority of purchasers if logic and knowledge is at all behind their purchase.
Conversely you could argue there are those who wouldn't buy one due to that association if they are at all aware of Rossi's behaviour with respect to other riders.
 
synn said:
As I said before, commercials for the race team (including sponsorship) are negotiated by Uccio and Pablo Nieto, who can and have vetoed Rossi’s preference to go to Yamaha.
Click to expand...
I do not see those two having the final say. Given much of the backing and formation of the team is coming from VR I think it far more likely the final say is his.
 
warthog1 said:
Really? They spend 20k on a sportsbike based on a photo of a bloke who used to ride them but is now involved with a competitors product. They don't know anymore about him than that? I think that is a vanishingly small minority of purchasers if logic and knowledge is at all behind their purchase.
Conversely you could argue there are those who wouldn't buy one due to that association if they are at all aware of Rossi's behaviour with respect to other riders.
Click to expand...
I believe he is still massively popular, including in the developing worlld. Somebody buying a sports bike might be expected to be more knowledgeable about his current affiliations I agree though.

MM’s popularity might be underestimated on English language bike racing forums however, and he may have captured a younger demographic as well. MM’s own marketing power has just been rather graphically demonstrated.
 
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warthog1 said:
I do not see those two having the final say. Given much of the backing and formation of the team is coming from VR I think it far more likely the final say is his.
Click to expand...
He has found another outlet in sports car racing so I can believe he has delegated running VR46 currently. I imagine however it is structured the VR46 team probably involves little or no expenditure of his own money and he would be happy for Uccio et al to keep it that way which it sounds like they can do more easily with Ducati. If (donning my tin foil hat) the motivation was partly to block MM from getting a factory Ducati that hasn’t worked obviously.
 
michaelm said:
He has found another outlet in sports car racing so I can believe he has delegated running VR46 currently. I imagine however it is structured the VR46 team probably involves little or no expenditure of his own money and he would be happy for Uccio et al to keep it that way which it sounds like they can do more easily with Ducati. If (donning my tin foil hat) the motivation was partly to block MM from getting a factory Ducati that hasn’t worked obviously.
Click to expand...

Fair point about his money. Probably right.
I expect that the decision of which bike to ride is most certainly heavily discussed. I do not see Uccio having the final say.
Part of the motivation to go Ducati probably was to try to limit MM's access to the best bike I agree.
Yep I was happy that did not work 😁😆
 
warthog1 said:
PR generated by someone who puts his name and his team on a competitor's bike in preference to a Yamaha?
Doesn't seem he is backing their product too well to me.
"The Yamaha has no chance of winning so I'll run Ducatis instead"
Great advocacy
Click to expand...
I assume that Rossi's brand appeal extends further than just motogp fans though. You walk into a Yamaha shop and see pictures of him etc. all it says is 9 x champion. It is good PR regardless.
 
synn said:
As I said before, commercials for the race team (including sponsorship) are negotiated by Uccio and Pablo Nieto, who can and have vetoed Rossi’s preference to go to Yamaha.
Click to expand...
I do find that extremely interesting.
It also leads me to believe that Lin Jarvis' retirement was forced onto him by Yamaha, his handling of Rossi at Yamaha being one of the bigger nails in his coffin IMO. He is directly or indirectly responsible for losing Lorenzo (who despite his age, very well could have claimed a championship for Yamaha in 2020 given what eventuated), losing their satellite team (tech3) because it seemed obvious and clear at the time that the VR46 satellite team was going to replace them, that did not eventuate and has left Yamaha at a disadvantage etc.
 

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