2025 Silly Season

synn said:

Apparently the one Yamaha poached was Gigi’s right hand man and did much of the recent aero work. Yamaha also has access to Dallara, who has done a lot of aero for single seater racing.

KTM has access to Red Bull Racing, who admittedly are one of the best in the business.

Romano Albessiano at Aprilia has an aerospace background, which explains why Aprilia probably has the most elegant aero solutions in place.

I don’t know who Honda is using, probably they don’t either, because they seem completely lost.

I think they will all catch up eventually, and given that aero will not (Unfortunately) completely go away in 2027, it’s probably worth the investment.

Click to expand...

Losing Adrian Newey is likely going to hurt Red Bull Racing big time. We'll see what their engineers are capable of in 2026.

Honda is going to be an interesting story for 2027. I could see them either building a great bike, or something unremarkable with no in-between.

JPSLotus said:

Losing Adrian Newey is likely going to hurt Red Bull Racing big time. We'll see what their engineers are capable of in 2026.

Honda is going to be an interesting story for 2027. I could see them either building a great bike, or something unremarkable with no in-between.

Click to expand...

Marini + A. Espargaro should be able to put together something decent, if the bike doesn’t break them first.

warthog1 said:

Yeah possibly when Marquez said he wasn't going to Pramac. Marquez has nerve on the bike and off it. Gutsy move but it worked

Click to expand...

Wouldn’t be surprised if there’d been some direct, discreet communication between Marquez and Gigi that would have bolstered Marc’s confidence in how he played it.

synn said:

Marini + A. Espargaro should be able to put together something decent, if the bike doesn’t break them first.

Click to expand...

Honda is supposed to have a new design engine in July so I guess we'll see if they've done anything there.

JPSLotus said:

Honda is supposed to have a new design engine in July so I guess we'll see if they've done anything there.

Click to expand...

Based on Marini’s comments it should help, as the current engine has too much inertia and is pushing them wide in the corners, plus too much spinning.

But going beyond that, the balance of the bike IMO has been off for some time now. It was already damn near unrideable in 2019 when it retired Lorenzo, but in 2020 Honda turned it from a front end machine (which Marquez likes) to a rear bias machine like the Ducatis, and that’s when it became a proper widow maker. They still haven’t fixed that underlying issue.

synn said:

Based on Marini’s comments it should help, as the current engine has too much inertia and is pushing them wide in the corners, plus too much spinning.

But going beyond that, the balance of the bike IMO has been off for some time now. It was already damn near unrideable in 2019 when it retired Lorenzo, but in 2020 Honda turned it from a front end machine (which Marquez likes) to a rear bias machine like the Ducatis, and that’s when it became a proper widow maker. They still haven’t fixed that underlying issue.

Click to expand...

That 2019 bike was starting to become diabolical which makes his performance that whole season rather insane. I think that is the worst world championship winning bike since maybe the Ducati GP7. Just from rider feedback in interviews on how it is to ride the current iteration of the RC213V, I would not even want to go near that bike.

JPSLotus said:

That 2019 bike was starting to become diabolical which makes his performance that whole season rather insane. I think that is the worst world championship winning bike since maybe the Ducati GP7. Just from rider feedback in interviews on how it is to ride the current iteration of the RC213V, I would not even want to go near that bike.

Click to expand...

It was, and my theory is that peak Marquez (And Peak Quartararo) were using their body positioning to effectively be the traction and wheelie control of their bikes; not only moving side to side but forward and back.

Can’t do that anymore because aero fuckery.

Keshav said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if there’d been some direct, discreet communication between Marquez and Gigi that would have bolstered Marc’s confidence in how he played it.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't call it discreet, to be honest.

Gigi told the press that he would consider not only the current season, but the history of the rider.

Martin was also downbeat in pre race presser, saying he knows that he is up against a multiple world champion, who is much more marketable than himself.

Personally I think that the riders knew what was coming after Marc managed to to not one, but multiple podiums when starting from the back of the grid after only a few races on the bike.

Hi guys, second post here (after intro). Things are getting quite interesting this season with a fit Marquez on a lesser bike (again, as I feel he made the Honda look a lot more competitive than it was during a few of his winning seasons). Not a fan of him as a person (until what happened in 2015 is ever clarified) but as a rider I have seen no better.

Wasn't surprised by Ducati's decision at all. Martin was just unlucky that Marquez was fit and available precisely when he was best placed for a promotion to the factory team. As good as Martin is, he (or anybody else) is no Marquez. Martin is a fine rider, great one lap speed, but lacks the emotional control IMO from what we've seen so far. He's also not that much younger (27 vs 31?), the futureproof signing would have been Acosta, but Martin is not like he's from a different generation just because he's later bloomer than someone who started winning as young as MM did? I think Martin overreacted with his signing for Aprilia, but it's also true that if he wants to win the title, unless he manages it this season, he had to gamble with another manufacturer. No way he'll do it on any Ducati from next year on.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Pecco will put much of a fight, he will still win races in a good day, but over a season he has no chance to beat Marquez, misfortune aside. Let's not forget that MM has made every teammate look like an amateur and has won every title since his debut except 2015 or when he's been absent/injured after his accident, including seasons when I don't think any other rider would have won a single race with the same bike he won the championship with. Pecco will have a slight advantage at first, more experience in the team and with the bike, but I would be surprised if he shows the level of talent needed to achieve something nobody has done so far. And I rate Pecco highly, I think he shows great skill when he needs it, we've seen some great moves from him in race starts this season for example, but beating Marquez? He'll need a lot more than that. Hope Fabio and Mir manage to get more competitive equipment soon too, I think they are top talents too.

The battle that is shaping up in the future though has to be Marc vs Acosta. That'll be a different matter and the age gap in this case will be much more significant. Let's hope the KTM is up to the challenge and we have a few seasons with both fit and riding winning bikes.

FastinFastout said:

(until what happened in 2015 is ever clarified)

Click to expand...

Oh, and welcome.

FastinFastout said:

until what happened in 2015 is ever clarified

Click to expand...

Welcome.
The fundamental difference between later era Honda Marquez vs Teammates and Pecco vs Marquez is that Marquez is getting on board a bike that is greatly influenced by Pecco instead of the other way around. Marquez is highly adaptable, as we have seen, but Pecco is better than just about everyone else in leveraging aero.

It should be an excellent matchup, and I hope it stays on track.

I also hope red mist Martin wins this year and takes the #1 plate to Aprilia.

I'm sure there's threads galore about that buried here somewhere and don't want to go off topic here, but there was a msc student not that long ago (about 5 years ago) that did a data analysis and visualisation assignment using all the lap and sector times from Phillip Island 2015 to see if there were suspicious patterns in MM's times and moves (as alleged by Rossi at the time). I didn't get my hands on the report as he wasn't my student, but I was curious and did enquire about it and apparently he found very strong evidence that MM was deliberately managing his track position until near the end of the race, when he took off to take the win. I can't comment on the work itself, but there's a suggestion for a project if any of you happens to be taking a similar course. Please report back!

I agree Martin winning this year would be awesome after all this, he's now suddenly more of an underdog than MM on the Gresini, which is saying something. His lack of popularity is quite surprising despite his form in the last few seasons, compared to an Acosta for example who only just arrived and is yet to win a race. I'm sure he'll get more love now and perhaps the push he needs to really stay focused on the title (the last turn pass at Mugello was shocking).

I also hope Martin pulls the last strands together to be able to stay mentally fit to challenge for the title. As I write this he is still the points leader. So far this year he has cut down on the mistakes but we’ll see how he responds as the pressure ramps up.

Bern1 said:

I also hope Martin pulls the last strands together to be able to stay mentally fit to challenge for the title. As I write this he is still the points leader. So far this year he has cut down on the mistakes but we’ll see how he responds as the pressure ramps up.

Click to expand...

Either way I find the 2024 season absolutely fascinating so far !

FastinFastout said:

I was curious and did enquire about it and apparently he found very strong evidence that MM was deliberately managing his track position until near the end of the race

Click to expand...

It's funny how this is the optimal way to ride a MotoGP in 2024 in the age of tire pressures.

FastinFastout said:

I'm sure there's threads galore about that buried here somewhere and don't want to go off topic here, but

Click to expand...

This post should have ended there. If you want to discuss that please take it to another thread. The 2015 Malaysian gp thread is still on the first page of topics in the motogp section of the forum. This isn't the place to discuss this. Welcome though man.

synn said:

Why would that be? Rossi and VR46 have said repeatedly that their goal is to find MotoGP factory seats for all their riders, whichever factory it might be.

Click to expand...

I somehow feel, that they wanted Bez to remain in their team in the hopes of getting factory GP25 for Bez. Also I feel Bez seem to be more loyal to VR than the other academy recruits (even more so than Marini). But I maybe and happy to be wrong in this case.

synn said:

They’ve already gone to KTM and Yamaha.

If you want secrets, poach engineers, not riders.

Click to expand...

I read somewhere that MM spoke to Gigi before signing the contract and had confirmation that Gigi will be there till 2026 at Ducati. They really have a lot of respect for each other.

JPSLotus said:

Honda is supposed to have a new design engine in July so I guess we'll see if they've done anything there.

Click to expand...

I haven’t followed what they have been doing engine wise, but if the current engine is still a version of the engine they had when they had their own ECU then a ground up re-design is what they have always needed imo. Nakamoto said way back then that a spec ECU would kill Honda, and threatened to withdraw.

I consider Lex to have a point that aero is counter to Honda ‘s engineering philosophy, but they are also going to need to go aero to succeed in the remaining years of this formula imo.

FastinFastout said:

I'm sure there's threads galore about that buried here somewhere and don't want to go off topic here, but there was a msc student not that long ago (about 5 years ago) that did a data analysis and visualisation assignment using all the lap and sector times from Phillip Island 2015 to see if there were suspicious patterns in MM's times and moves (as alleged by Rossi at the time). I didn't get my hands on the report as he wasn't my student, but I was curious and did enquire about it and apparently he found very strong evidence that MM was deliberately managing his track position until near the end of the race, when he took off to take the win. I can't comment on the work itself, but there's a suggestion for a project if any of you happens to be taking a similar course. Please report back!

I agree Martin winning this year would be awesome after all this, he's now suddenly more of an underdog than MM on the Gresini, which is saying something. His lack of popularity is quite surprising despite his form in the last few seasons, compared to an Acosta for example who only just arrived and is yet to win a race. I'm sure he'll get more love now and perhaps the push he needs to really stay focused on the title (the last turn pass at Mugello was shocking).

Click to expand...

I have posted my view more than enough about the events concerned, but in regard to “research” there is a tendency for people to find what they want to find.