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No doubt there would be hurdles, but this this is a business, and having empty grid spots is not good for business. Yamaha would need to do the leg work before approaching Dorna, they would need to secure a title sponsor and funding, basically put forth an offer that Dorna couldn't say no to.
Dorna I imagine are keeping it open for the likes of BMW, for whom they might be waiting a while, rather than a Yamaha satellite team. The problem partly wrought by Dorna is that even Ducati satellite bikes are really good, particularly compared to Honda, but also more recently Yamaha as well. If they can provide a better bike they will have less trouble attracting a satellite team, but then again they want.a satellite team to help improve their bike. I suspect their plan was for a VR 46 satellite team all along which other parties would have known, although Tech 3 got an offer they couldn’t refuse from KTM.

Interesting that the allocation of a Ducati GP 25 factory bike to a satellite team might come down to Rossi vs Márquez again.
 
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Dorna I imagine are keeping it open for the likes of BMW, for whom they might be waiting a while, rather than a Yamaha satellite team. The problem partly wrought by Dorna is that even Ducati satellite bikes are really good, particularly compared to Honda, but also more recently Yamaha as well. If they can provide a better bike they will have less trouble attracting a satellite team, but then again they want.a satellite team to help improve their bike. I suspect their plan was for a VR 46 satellite team all along which other parties would have known, although Tech 3 got an offer they couldn’t refuse from KTM.

Interesting that the allocation of a Ducati GP 25 factory bike to a satellite team might come down to Rossi vs Márquez again.
IIRC at the time there was definitely rumours that a VR46 team would be going ahead sooner rather than later and Yamaha would be providing bikes to them over Tech3. I may be misremembering but I seem to recall Yamaha coming out and more or less confirming that the VR46 squad would get there bikes and Tech3 would have to look elsewhere. Herve was understandably pissed and KTM came along with their offer to him which was better than what he was getting form Yamaha anyway, Petronas/SRT came in at the last second to provide Yamaha a satellite team which unfortunately for Yamaha did not last for long.

Which IMO comes back to how piss poorly Lin Jarvis has managed the factory Yamaha at times. Jarvis has bought them world championships, but he has also cost them significantly at times with his management.
 
IIRC at the time there was definitely rumours that a VR46 team would be going ahead sooner rather than later and Yamaha would be providing bikes to them over Tech3. I may be misremembering but I seem to recall Yamaha coming out and more or less confirming that the VR46 squad would get there bikes and Tech3 would have to look elsewhere. Herve was understandably pissed and KTM came along with their offer to him which was better than what he was getting form Yamaha anyway, Petronas/SRT came in at the last second to provide Yamaha a satellite team which unfortunately for Yamaha did not last for long.

Which IMO comes back to how piss poorly Lin Jarvis has managed the factory Yamaha at times. Jarvis has bought them world championships, but he has also cost them significantly at times with his management.

I recall it as well being a seemingly foregone conclusion that VR46 would come in using the Yamaha M1 till everything shook out the way it did. Still blows my mind how Yamaha are basically acting like a cuckold to VR, keeping his brand ambassador BS while he's busy fielding 2 Ducati's on the highest profile stage for motorcycle racing. Yamaha really need to grow a pair and tell him to .... off if he wants to use Ducati race bikes in GP. Tell him all future benefits with Yamaha are no more unless he fields a pair of M1's in GP. He's been out long enough that most people are looking forward. GP racing moved on without him being on the grid personally just fine as we all predicted years ago. Always does.

Let's not forget too how Lin Jarvis allowed that debacle with the salaries at the end of 2016 dictate the loss of a 5 time world champion who was at that time their most recent winner of championships.

He IMO inadvertently fueled the rise of Ducati by letting Lorenzo walk just to be a bitch to Rossi. Yes Lorenzo and Ducati ended too soon, but I think what Gigi and Jorge did there led Gigi to figure out how to build the Ducati into what we see now.
 
This is my memory of events as well, although I wasn’t completely sure of the timing of the KTM offer which to be fair was as good an offer or as he was going to get from any manufacturer. Herve wouldn’t have been at all confident about Yamaha continuing to supply him with bikes regardless though.

One thing for certain is that MM won’t be riding a factory GP25 for VR46 who are reputedly angling for such a bike next year, and I doubt Ducati who have been told to economise want to increase the supply of factory bikes. So Pramac if they stay with Ducati may be the only factory Ducati option on a satellite team for MM next year.

I do also wonder about the strength of the Italian thing for Ducati, a somewhat valid point imo raised by at least one of our anti-MM visitors earlier this year. They have mostly favoured Italian riders for their team, and although I doubt Gigi is influenced by same, cf Lorenzo, Domenicali may be. I guess Gresini and VR46 are both Italian teams, but VR46 is an Italian team with Italian riders as well as the Valentino Rossi connection.
 
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Let's not forget too how Lin Jarvis allowed that debacle with the salaries at the end of 2016 dictate the loss of a 5 time world champion who was at that time their most recent winner of championships.

He IMO inadvertently fueled the rise of Ducati by letting Lorenzo walk just to be a bitch to Rossi. Yes Lorenzo and Ducati ended too soon, but I think what Gigi and Jorge did there led Gigi to figure out how to build the Ducati into what we see now.
This is exactly what I was referring to when I spoke about his management.
I would add that he sealed Vinaeles' fate in 2017 by not standing up and saying no the tyre can't be changed or must be available for all riders etc. We designed our bike around it. It felt like because Rossi wanted the new tyre Jarvis and by extension, Yamaha were more than happy to oblige, even though it came at a cost to their championship leader.
Yamaha IMO got lucky with Petronas coming on board when Tech3 left. I don't think there was a brilliant plan from them to put that in place.
 
Ducati could solve a lot of their problems plus keeping all the good riders if they would be willing to supply enough factory spec bikes. They could also do a smart marketing move like telling gresini to paint their bikes red for 2025
 
Ducati could solve a lot of their problems plus keeping all the good riders if they would be willing to supply enough factory spec bikes. They could also do a smart marketing move like telling gresini to paint their bikes red for 2025
Imo and as has been said in the bike racing press there isn’t anything which will allow them to keep all 4 of their current top riders after this season. Either Bastianini or Martin is gone from Ducati if not on the factory Ducati team in 2025. I can understand Bastianini’s attitude as well, he is a major talent regarded as a threat to Bagnaia before the 2023 season, and was derailed by injury problems not of his own causation, but looks to be back now. Imo the demand for his services in 2025 would likely be close to the demand for Martin’s services.
 
As you know the problem Ducati have is that they have Martin and MM for the seat that Bastianini has. Bastainini is bad at qualifying and starting but the fastest during the race, if Bastaiini fixed the qualifying and start then he is the obvious choice however that's and 'if' while Martin and MM are proven race winners

Aprilia would gain greatly from having Bastianini on their bike
 
No doubt there would be hurdles, but this this is a business, and having empty grid spots is not good for business. Yamaha would need to do the leg work before approaching Dorna, they would need to secure a title sponsor and funding, basically put forth an offer that Dorna couldn't say no to.
Dorna have flat out refused KTM to field 2 more satellite bikes that they offered to fully fund themselves. Dorna want less bikes, not more. They have long said that unless a manufacturer comes in to replace Suzuki, the number will remain at 22 and they went as far as saying the optimum number is 20.

A door closes for Marquez as MotoGP grid expansion ruled out - The Race

If they can provide a better bike they will have less trouble attracting a satellite team, but then again they want.a satellite team to help improve their bike. I suspect their plan was for a VR 46 satellite team all along which other parties would have known, although Tech 3 got an offer they couldn’t refuse from KTM.
Yamaha have reaped what they sow. Tech3 bailed because they were told as soon as Rossi retires and wants to set up his own team, those bikes would be going to them. So Herve did the smart thing and jumped before he was pushed. Then Rossi ...... Yamaha over...again.

Which IMO comes back to how piss poorly Lin Jarvis has managed the factory Yamaha at times. Jarvis has bought them world championships, but he has also cost them significantly at times with his management.
The strategy of sucking up to Rossi was always going to doom them in the long run.
 
With just 2 bikes on the grid it is slowing the development of the Yamaha, every other manufacture has at least 4. Now Dorna said no to KTM, but what was the incentive for Dorna? MotoGP has new owners, I think Yamaha could put together a lucrative deal that would be hard to say no to.

Any new manufacture will be at a major disadvantage with just 2 bikes, especially with a new rules package.
 
I completely agree. In reality I think Dorna should have forced VR46 to run Yamaha. That way the Ducati presence is reduced, along with giving Yamaha a second team.
 
This is my memory of events as well, although I wasn’t completely sure of the timing of the KTM offer which to be fair was as good an offer or as he was going to get from any manufacturer. Herve wouldn’t have been at all confident about Yamaha continuing to supply him with bikes regardless though.

One thing for certain is that MM won’t be riding a factory GP25 for VR46 who are reputedly angling for such a bike next year, and I doubt Ducati who have been told to economise want to increase the supply of factory bikes. So Pramac if they stay with Ducati may be the only factory Ducati option on a satellite team for MM next year.

I do also wonder about the strength of the Italian thing for Ducati, a somewhat valid point imo raised by at least one of our anti-MM visitors earlier this year. They have mostly favoured Italian riders for their team, and although I doubt Gigi is influenced by same, cf Lorenzo, Domenicali may be. I guess Gresini and VR46 are both Italian teams, but VR46 is an Italian team with Italian riders as well as the Valentino Rossi connection.

I think the Italian connection is a factor for Ducati more so than any other team in recent memory in either GP or even Formula 1. But it helps there's a more direct Italian pipeline into motorcycle racing than in grand prix auto racing.

But I think they are trying to move heaven and earth to get MM on the GP25 with factory support. Him winning races or even titles on the Ducati would be a boon to their bottom line and marketing campaign to the general public from the road bike division more than any of the other possible rider candidates for one of those GP25's. I meant to say this somewhere else, but the last two races showed the world how good Marc Marquez truly is. It shut a ton of people up across the world because those folks are starting to acknowledge he's truly an alien rider. Ducati is reaping a PR bonanza for a rider who only finished 2nd in two races riding their previous season's bike! If he wins a GP, especially in the sort of fashion that got him those P2's, Ducati is going to win out at the end of the day.

That being said, I think Nadia Padovani is an intelligent woman who likely knows how to play the political game of GP well otherwise she wouldn't be running Gresini Racing. I think Gresini has a strong chance of obtaining a GP25 if things work out to keep MM there but turn his garage into a de facto factory squad.

Certainly Valentino has his name working for him. But, past is the past, Marc is the present. VR46 can't field a rider of the caliber of MM, so I don't see them getting a GP25.
 
I'd also add my 2p regarding the VR46 team.

Valentino has clearly stated, and showed, that his teams are a platform for Italian riders. They are in the business of bringing them through to the pinnacle of the sport, and like with Pecco, letting them thrive at the best team on the grid. For the time being.

The team is too fresh to want to push on, and become the second team of the works Ducati. That step might come in two years time.

They clearly favour the Italian path at the moment, although if both Pramac and Gresini stay with Ducati for two more years, the VR46 will be getting a new phone call from Lin Jarvis before he steps down.

With the pipeline of riders coming through from the lower classes, the VR46 team will struggle to keep buying the bikes they need from Borgo Panigale, while they are more likely to be given money to be the testing mules the Iwata.

So if they were to keep their focus on rider development, Valentino should go all in for being part of the Yamaha revival.
 
My personal preference is for Bastianini to join Mav at Aprilia. Depending on Enea's performance in winter testing, he could add intrigue to the championship and increase competition between the manufacturers.

Regarding VR46, I get the sense that this is part of Rossi's pension plan from Dorna, and he's tasked his organization with putting Italian riders in the shop window. This would explain why he's turned down Yamaha satellite bikes at a steep discount. I'd imagine the Ducati are the most supportive of his mission, and VR's contracts with Dorna are structured to meet his objectives. After 2 decades in the premier class, he probably knows how to ensure no one has leverage over him.

Why does Yamaha keep his as a brand ambassador? Why indeed? He rides a Yamaha at his rider academy tests, but other than that, I'm not sure how he promotes the brand or its products. Maybe he's going to race an R9 in World Supersport next year? 😌
 
I think the Italian connection is a factor for Ducati more so than any other team in recent memory in either GP or even Formula 1. But it helps there's a more direct Italian pipeline into motorcycle racing than in grand prix auto racing.

But I think they are trying to move heaven and earth to get MM on the GP25 with factory support. Him winning races or even titles on the Ducati would be a boon to their bottom line and marketing campaign to the general public from the road bike division more than any of the other possible rider candidates for one of those GP25's. I meant to say this somewhere else, but the last two races showed the world how good Marc Marquez truly is. It shut a ton of people up across the world because those folks are starting to acknowledge he's truly an alien rider. Ducati is reaping a PR bonanza for a rider who only finished 2nd in two races riding their previous season's bike! If he wins a GP, especially in the sort of fashion that got him those P2's, Ducati is going to win out at the end of the day.

That being said, I think Nadia Padovani is an intelligent woman who likely knows how to play the political game of GP well otherwise she wouldn't be running Gresini Racing. I think Gresini has a strong chance of obtaining a GP25 if things work out to keep MM there but turn his garage into a de facto factory squad.

Certainly Valentino has his name working for him. But, past is the past, Marc is the present. VR46 can't field a rider of the caliber of MM, so I don't see them getting a GP25.
That is my (biased) view as view as well in regard to both MM's quality as a rider obviously, and also MM's value to Ducati. I just don't see what VR46's plan is, and In particular what plan was communicated to Bezzecchi given he reportedly knocked back an offer to ride a factory bike for Pramac which as I understand it involves a Ducati contract, unless there was either a factory Ducati in the offing or expansive plans for a future at Yamaha. Yamaha does have a history with previous Yamaha greats such as Agostini and KRSR post their racing careers. I guess Bezzecchi would have been pretty much on his own at Pramac rather than being the team owner's protege, and the pipeline from there to the Ducati factory team is narrow gauge at the moment. And given their general attitude to MM they may have been expecting Bezzecchi to beat him on the same bike.

Lex raises an interesting point in regard to who or what is funding VR46 if he can afford to refuse Yamaha ?. It doesn't look like Valentino is playing with much if any of his own money to me.

The other thing is while Yamaha may be unlikely to get back to parity with Ducati under the current formula they haven't even been uncompetitive for a full 2 years yet, FQ really should have repeated in 2022,
 
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My personal preference is for Bastianini to join Mav at Aprilia. Depending on Enea's performance in winter testing, he could add intrigue to the championship and increase competition between the manufacturers.

Regarding VR46, I get the sense that this is part of Rossi's pension plan from Dorna, and he's tasked his organization with putting Italian riders in the shop window. This would explain why he's turned down Yamaha satellite bikes at a steep discount. I'd imagine the Ducati are the most supportive of his mission, and VR's contracts with Dorna are structured to meet his objectives. After 2 decades in the premier class, he probably knows how to ensure no one has leverage over him.

Why does Yamaha keep his as a brand ambassador? Why indeed? He rides a Yamaha at his rider academy tests, but other than that, I'm not sure how he promotes the brand or its products. Maybe he's going to race an R9 in World Supersport next year? 😌
Yes, fan allegiances aside it is preferable for Ducati not to have most of the top riding talent as well as the best bike. I rate Bastianini's talent very highly, and it would be very interesting to see him on an Aprilia, along with Acosta on a KTM with a year's experience.
 
I believe that the Ducati Corse Rosso plug is what will release all the tension and the pieces of the puzzle will fall quickly in place after Mugello.

Martin,Marquez and Bastianini's fate will dictate Aprilia and KTM's options.

That will have a direct effect on the satellite teams of Pramac, Gresini, Trackhouse and GasGas.

Yamaha's option will be clear after Pramac decide their future, and then VR46 will land their plan.

Strangely enough Honda, the previously all mighty Honda, is the team of least interest, yet could end up saving a rider's career, at least short term.
 
Dorna's preference is to have 6 manufacturers with 4 bikes each. Currently we have 5 manufacturers with between 2 and 8 bikes

It's quite possible that part of the condition to giving MM a GP25 at Gresini is that Gresini signs to keep Ducati's for the 25 and 26 seasons, ie we can't discount the possibility of MM staying at Gresini based on the current manufacturer contract

In regards to Ducati having most of the best riders, it's clear which bikes the riders want;
1. GP24
2. GP23
3. KTM/Aprilia
....
98. Yamaha
99. Honda
 
I believe that the Ducati Corse Rosso plug is what will release all the tension and the pieces of the puzzle will fall quickly in place after Mugello.

Martin,Marquez and Bastianini's fate will dictate Aprilia and KTM's options.

That will have a direct effect on the satellite teams of Pramac, Gresini, Trackhouse and GasGas.

Yamaha's option will be clear after Pramac decide their future, and then VR46 will land their plan.

Strangely enough Honda, the previously all mighty Honda, is the team of least interest, yet could end up saving a rider's career, at least short term.
That was more or less my question, and you sound like you are in touch with the Italian scene. So will VR 46 have a factory bike next year ?.
 

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