Joined Nov 2012
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2024 Round 21 Valencian GP of Catalunya
- Thread starter MdubSTYLIE
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Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
No glass is ever full around Pecco
Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
The dude is his own biggest rival. As a racer 22 you probably understand this, you learn more from your defeats than your wins. The worst thing a racer can do is not dissect his failures. Pecco is the epitome of not learning from your mistakes. He will never learn to be a better rider because his short comings are always someone else's fault. I don't think the Italian Cal Crutchlow will ever win another championship.
Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
Joined Oct 2008
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In Cider
Exactly. I've never been impressed with his 'It wasn't my fault I crashed' attitude.
Joined May 2009
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Bikes or rental cars?
Whatever his faults I have never heard MM claim if he hadn’t crashed in 5 races and been taken out in another that he would have won the 2015 title. He learned from that year and from PI 2015 in particular imo that there were different ways to win a title than dominating every lap of every race.
I consider the VR 46 riding school to have been a tremendous success, but maybe his mentor inculcates his protégés with this attitude given he himself still claims the 2015 title was stolen from him rather than looking at his speed/pace compared to his rivals in the closing races of that season.
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Joined Apr 2015
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NJ
Every time Pecco opens his mouth, he vomits .... out of it.
Well or Prosecco.
He has a chance to go down as the most unsuccessful double digit GP winner in the 4-stroke era...well hell GP history for that matter.
None of the greats in the history of the sport would EVER have let the title get away from them in this fashion. I have never felt a sense of urgency, or a burning desire to win from Pecco. His Master's Voice even had more desire to win than Pecco does. Hell, Wayne Rainey never gave up in 1992 when Doohan nearly lost his career and managed to win it at the end. You never would have heard this type of ........ out of Wayne's mouth back then. Could you imagine Mick even making that kind of a comment?
Pecco believes everything should be handed to him because he is on the superior factory bike. The sum of the entire season is what delivers the championship. Literally no one in 20 years will care that he won 10 races in 2024. They will remember him as being the guy who won 10 races and couldn't win the title because he crashed out of multiple races. To me the contrast between Pecco and his future teammate was evident at Portimao. Pecco just threw his arm up in disgust when he went down. Marc ran to the bike to get back onto the track even though he wasn't going to score any points. The greats never give up...Pecco gives up and walks away the moment he's faced with any adversity.
Joined Sep 2015
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Office cubicle
While I don't want to spoil the Pecco-bashing party, I can think of a few examples of more unsuccessful double digit GP winners in the 4 stroke era. Starting with Pedrosa who's the prime example of guy who won lots of races but never the big prize. And then you have a few others like Viñales (double digit GP winner, can you believe it?), Dovizioso, hell, even another champion like Quartararo fits the bill and he could end up not winning a race ever again.
I'm lukewarm towards Pecco, I share the usual criticisms leveled towards him (error prone, always blames external factors, Rossi connection, hasn't been seriously tested until now) but he can still make us look silly after this weekend. I think Martín will win this year's trophy and it will be deserved, but I don't think Pecco will be thought of as a bum upon retirement.
Absolutely. Mick was dominating the 1992 title race prior to his crash at Assen, and still only lost by 4 points after missing several races. Another week of recovery prior to his return might have done it.
I don’t recall any talk from Mick that Rainey hadn’t really won the title or that non contenders shouldn’t race him on his return.
I believe he meant single season double digit race winners. No one who has won 10 Sunday races has failed to win the title previously.
I actually regard the sprint races as confectionery to an extent myself, but the rules and races are the same or everyone including Martin, and no one was threatening him with a machine gun should he do better in the sprint races. He has been handed a bigger bike advantage than most title winners have had, even though Martin is on the same bike. Bastianini was really the only other rider with a chance, Morbidelli pretty much fluked the Pramac GP 24 ride.
Excuses, everybody makes them at times. During his 5 year run of titles, I got really tired of Doohan blaming everything under the sun except himself when he did lose.
Regarding Pecco, I believe he will continue to improve next year. As will everybody. There were quite a few riders on Ducatis this year who didn't seem to know exactly why they crashed. Pecco was just the most visible and vocal about it, as well as being the defending world champion.
Good weather this weekend in Catalunya, I hope we see good clean racing.
Joined Sep 2015
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Office cubicle
Ah, that makes more sense. My bad, if that's what you meant, JPSLotus.
Joined Aug 2007
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Pomona NY
That's what she said.
Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
None of those riders were on the gp24. The gp23 has obvious shortcomings. I will say straight up pecco will not improve next year. He may crash less but he will not win 10 or 11 races. He has not progressed through out his career. He has continued to make the same mistakes year after year. Two of which he was able to make just few enough mistakes to win the title. I have seen zero improvement over time from him. His crashes are always the same. Too much brake to much speed going into a corner. THey are always entering the the corner. Never mid corner or exit. Not just this year but the last few years. If he doesn't know what it happening he is doomed to repeat it.
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I mentioned the Ducati, not a particular model. Surely there are aspects common to all models, which may impact the feedback, or lack of it, when the shiny side goes down.
We will see next year whether Pecco improves or not. That's why we keep tuning in each new season!
We will see next year whether Pecco improves or not. That's why we keep tuning in each new season!
Joined Aug 2007
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Pomona NY
But you will grant, Lorenzo had serious fire in the belly. Never had to think long about when to be aggressive. In place of fire in the belly, Pecco has instead, aristocratic self-entitlement.
LOL! - I had not looked at the article 22 had linked to a few posts back. Confirms what I typed a minute ago.
Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
I know you didn't mention models but the fact is no one else had this issue with the gp24 or the gp22. Last year Pecco, Martin, and Beast said they didn't understand why the bike would lose grip randomly in certain situations. This year all the riders on the gp 23 are also saying this. But no one on the gp24 other than him is.
Proof is in the pudding. Everyone who rode the 23 last year is having a better season this year. Everyone who rode the 22 is having a shittier season on the 23.
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Sure, although perhaps surprisingly mellow now deep into his retirement, Mick was cantankerous when he was racing and hated to lose even a single race during that 5 year run. He particularly didn’t like being beaten by Alex Criville who sometimes just sat on him for a whole race to which Mick had philosophical objections
, and probably felt Alex benefited from his set up data as well. Never heard him say he really should have won the 1992, 1993 or 1999 titles though, and he didn’t have many losses to complain about over that 5 year run, other than the year Max Biaggi ran him moderately close.While I find it doubtful any of the other double digit winners wouldn't have extended their lead if sprint races were happening. Pecco has IIRC outscored Martin in the Sunday races. Of course, strategy needs to change with the times but no other rider champion has had Saturday races in which they could crash out or their main rivals could claw back points from.
Though of the 4-stroke era champions, I can imagine any of them not being just as dominant during sprint races.
The only two titles I can see with any significant change is 2013 and 2015. 2013, the inexperienced Marquez may have suffered more crashes in sprint races allowing Lorenzo to claw back points or on the flip side, the injured Lorenzo would have given up more points to Marquez. 2015, you have to think that Rossi's lack of outright pace would have cost him points in the sprints and Lorenzo would have had a decent lead going into Valencia.
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