2024 Round 21 Valencian GP of Catalunya

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Keshav said:
But you will grant, Lorenzo had serious fire in the belly. Never had to think long about when to be aggressive. In place of fire in the belly, Pecco has instead, aristocratic self-entitlement.

LOL! - I had not looked at the article 22 had linked to a few posts back. Confirms what I typed a minute ago.
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Lorenzo's late braking and race craft when required often gets overlooked because of how unstoppable he was with clear air on his day/s.
 
p4p1 said:
While I find it doubtful any of the other double digit winners wouldn't have extended their lead if sprint races were happening. Pecco has IIRC outscored Martin in the Sunday races. Of course, strategy needs to change with the times but no other rider champion has had Saturday races in which they could crash out or their main rivals could claw back points from.
Though of the 4-stroke era champions, I can imagine any of them not being just as dominant during sprint races.
The only two titles I can see with any significant change is 2013 and 2015. 2013, the inexperienced Marquez may have suffered more crashes in sprint races allowing Lorenzo to claw back points or on the flip side, the injured Lorenzo would have given up more points to Marquez. 2015, you have to think that Rossi's lack of outright pace would have cost him points in the sprints and Lorenzo would have had a decent lead going into Valencia.
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Agreed, that was part of my point if not well expressed, none of the other double digit race winners had to contend with points being available to be won or lost in a Saturday sprint race, which may be what he is implying himself.

As I said he was responsible for his own performances in the sprint races though, and just as Rossi largely racing better than he qualified in 2015 might have counted against him had there been sprint races then it did actually count against him in the races as they were then, requiring him to have to come through the field. Just as with Bagnaia and the sprint taces this season that was Rossi’s own problem imo and not due to any malfeasance on the part of MM or Lorenzo, the opportunity always existed for him to get in front of Lorenzo from the getgo and stay there. I still don’t see after all the recent renewed discussion of the 2015 season how MM was obliged to run any race strategy other than the winning strategy he chose at PI 2015.
 
michaelm said:
Agreed, that was part of my point if not well expressed, none of the other double digit race winners had to contend with points being available to be won or lost in a Saturday sprint race, which may be what he is implying himself.

As I said he was responsible for his own performances in the sprint races though, and just as Rossi largely racing better than he qualified in 2015 might have counted against him had there been sprint races then it did actually count against him in the races as they were then, requiring him to have to come through the field. Just as with Bagnaia and the sprint taces this season that was Rossi’s own problem imo and not due to any malfeasance on the part of MM or Lorenzo, the opportunity always existed for him to get in front of Lorenzo from the getgo and stay there. I still don’t see after all the recent renewed discussion of the 2015 season how MM was obliged to run any race strategy other than the winning strategy he chose at PI 2015.
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Bagnaia and the sprint races
 
From the presser

Pecco - If Martin wins the title, I'll be happy for him, since we have a good relationship, and he deserves it
Martin - I have a good relationship with Pecco and with Ducati

Both - This season we are heads and shoulders above everyone else

Now that is what I personally would call a friendly championship fight. Good for them that they refuse to be drawn into handbagging by the press and fans
 
#22 said:
And in 90% of those hard battles, he has come off 2nd best.

Nothing wrong with that. I liken his style more to that of Lorenzo. Get out front and kill people with metronomic consistency (easier now with tyre pressure issues with riders following).
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I agree that Pecco likes to dictate from the front. Same with Martin.
It's the best approach, of course, and even more important in the aero era.

As for losing 90% of the hard battles, I for one don't remember that.
Pecco managed to win against Marc in Jerez, when they exchanged positions throughout the last part of the race.
He managed Enea in the sprint in Malaysia. He had a good recovery race in PI last year, fighting hard. Same in Mugello this season.

He is by no means an Eddy De Kannibaal Merckx, as Marc is. He isn't that intimidating, and he does come second best a few times.

I do get the impression that he is underestimated as rider.
 
Well, that session didn't last long.

I'm really not sure whose fault that was. As the commentators said, Acosta wouldn't have known that Fernandez was out there. Fernandez stood up a bit which initiated the contact according to my eyes, but did he have to by that point?

EDIT: It's only first practice, but great to see Nakagami in P1. I'm hoping he'll go straight through to Q2, but we will see.
 
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P1 results

1731674115789.png
 
AnnoyingTwit said:
Well, that session didn't last long.

I'm really not sure whose fault that was. As the commentators said, Acosta wouldn't have known that Fernandez was out there. Fernandez stood up a bit which initiated the contact according to my eyes, but did he have to by that point?

EDIT: It's only first practice, but great to see Nakagami in P1. I'm hoping he'll go straight through to Q2, but we will see.
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Needless incident imo, especially early in practice. I would put the blame more on Fernandez.

Started with the latter coming around the outside of Acosta in T5
1731674404644.png

Then making contact as Acosta came out on the exit

1731674446487.png


1731674518391.png
 
#22 said:
Needless incident imo, especially early in practice. I would put the blame more on Fernandez.

Started with the latter coming around the outside of Acosta in T5
View attachment 15141
Then making contact as Acosta came out on the exit

View attachment 15142

View attachment 15144
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Both were stuck behind slower riders. 100% Ferni's fault. Should be a start from the back or long lap penalty. I think he was hoping for his first and last pass against his teammate.
 
Why did A. Fernandez stand his bike up like that before contact? The photos make it look to me like he could have gone out onto the green.

EDIT: Augusto wants Pedro's record for the most number of crashes this year. Initially I thought it was a factory Ducati down.

EDIT: Still two GP23s at the top, and Acosta still up there too.
 
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#22 said:
Bagnaia also had a fall after the practice start. It seems like he was caught off guard by Vinales passing him.


Maybe he thought he was in Ibiza?
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He likely tapped the front brake and as the forks were still pushed down due to ride height gizmo it just let go. He was dawdling on the line, lack of awareness. He does have a few human frailties doesn’t he? Loved it when he stood up and gestured at Vinales.
 
Faz said:
He likely tapped the front brake and as the forks were still pushed down due to ride height gizmo it just let go. He was dawdling on the line, lack of awareness. He does have a few human frailties doesn’t he? Loved it when he stood up and gestured at Vinales.
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The gesturing was comical.

That's precisely what I can't stand about Pecco. I'd get it if Vinales made contact of course, but screwing around on the racing line like that is a recipe for disaster on that straight even if the session was over.
 

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