Great post. I won’t be surprised if Gigi engineered some flex into it, because that’s not explicitly banned in the rule book.
I’ve also seen the Honda rear wings flex under load, but I highly doubt if it was the intended outcome.
2024 Round 13: Gran Premio Red Bull di San Marino e della Riviera di Rimini San Marino - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli
- Thread starter JPSLotus
- Start date
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
I’ve also seen the Honda rear wings flex under load, but I highly doubt if it was the intended outcome.
On that note;
Suzuki was on track to Out-Gigi Gigi before the rug was pulled from underneath them.
www.cycleworld.com
(Although I highly suspect KTM is doing exactly this trickery right now).
Suzuki was on track to Out-Gigi Gigi before the rug was pulled from underneath them.
Suzuki’s Secret MotoGP Aerodynamics Revealed
In Suzuki’s final MotoGP season, the company made great strides with aero performance, even winning two of the last three races.
www.cycleworld.com
(Although I highly suspect KTM is doing exactly this trickery right now).
IIRC, the tail wings work like the winglets on an airplane wing. When the rider is hanging off of the bike, air contacts the tail section, and the tail wings hold it in place so it acts on the tail section. I believe its supposed to help the bike rotate because the Michelins have such a strong rear grip bias.
KTM have somehow homologated a wing structure that is connected directly to the rear axle by way of the swing arm. Not sure if they are still using it, but there were pictures from last round, I think.
Don’t need to homologate it according to the current rulebook. Things that connect to the swing arm and the forks are not part of the homologated aero bodywork.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2008
- Messages
- 5,926
- Location
- In Cider
Very good observations JPS, and I have yet to watch FP1. What I will say, is that the flex is obviously a factor of 2 things. 1. The load applied to them and 2, the rigidity of the material (which of course you all know).
You can engineer the amount of flex of a carbon fibre component by arranging the layers in a certain way before autoclaving it. I would say though that with them being so short, it would have to be considerable load in them to flex them. Look at the recent video of the McLaren F1 front wing at Monza. It;s flexing only a couble of mm and it is nearly a metre long, plus being subject to a lot more load than the rear wing on a Ducati. I would also argue that the rear wings become ineffective on the straights when the rider is in front of them (unless they are then also breaking up the airflow off the back of the rider to stall them).
Still, very interesting discussion point though.
You can engineer the amount of flex of a carbon fibre component by arranging the layers in a certain way before autoclaving it. I would say though that with them being so short, it would have to be considerable load in them to flex them. Look at the recent video of the McLaren F1 front wing at Monza. It;s flexing only a couble of mm and it is nearly a metre long, plus being subject to a lot more load than the rear wing on a Ducati. I would also argue that the rear wings become ineffective on the straights when the rider is in front of them (unless they are then also breaking up the airflow off the back of the rider to stall them).
Still, very interesting discussion point though.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
Michael my Dude, what gives? Its uncharacteristic of you to repeatedly misconstrue the meaning of my posts. It’s a given that MM is not a mid-pack rider. I thought it surely clear that my point was that it wasn’t only Marquez who rode to much better than usual results that weekend, hence the “all boats” reference, to say that others benefited from track conditions as well. Marc moreso than others - sure. Me call Marc a mid-pack rider??? C’mon. I know you for having a LONG memory, and know that you know, I’ve been a huge admirer of his since the day he first threw a leg over the seat of the Repsol bike. When the majority of the members here were lambasting him left and right, referring to him as Murder Marc, I was one of his staunchest defenders. I was the guy who was laughed at when I predicted he would mature and outgrow his more egregious behavior patterns.
Last edited:
He hasn’t been Murder Marc in a while and thank .... for that.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2012
- Messages
- 998
According to lap time analysis, Acosta is expected to do very well and challenge Ducati.
www.crash.net
Lap time data analysis suggests Pedro Acosta will threaten Ducati
Ducati riders look well-placed to win the San Marino GP, but one outside threat could derail that
I was a fan of Chris Vermeulen as well. I just found it incongruous to compare his sole win in a flag to flag race to MM’s 60th win after more than 1000 days and many vicissitudes and which involved dominating an entire weekend, and for my money showing he can still make a difference with riding talent even on an aero bike. Gigi has been saying he is outperforming the GP23 in more usual conditions for some time as well. Sure it doesn’t mean he is going to win consistently for the rest of the season. If AM had finished on the podium I would see that as more akin to Vermeulen’s feat as you also said, although even that would perhaps have been partly related to MM related setting up of the Gresini GP23s.
The other thing is that the future GP25 riders may have received updates for their GP23s, while it remains to be seen whether Martin will get updates on his GP24. If normal service resuming means Bagnaia winning sure that may well occur, but Martin out performing MM is not so certain imo.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
You persist in the belief that the salient point of the post was a comparison between Vermulen and Marc. That would be, on my part totally ridiculous. I've made it clear years ago, that I viewed Vermulen as a lesser player in the game. A nice guy for sure, good in the rain, but not a world beater. I refuse to be drawn into a debate about what I meant.
I bet the current Honda lot would take Vermeulen’s XRE0 with a wet setting over the RCV with a bow tie on it.
That is along the lines I was thinking, Vermeulen’s bike was more competitive than the Hondas of recent seasons, and he was good in the wet. MM is good in the wet, but there were basically no track or weather conditions which allowed him to be competitive on a Honda in recent seasons. It encouraged me that MM was still able to employ his riding talent in sketchy conditions to dominate the field even on an aero bike. It may not be possible to ride a GP24 better or even as well as Pecco in normal grip conditions though, let alone a GP23, which may be what Keshav was driving at. He was competitive with Martin the race before Aragon and so far at Misano, and has perhaps found away some of his native riding style on a Ducati aero bike. He is no longer struggling to get into FP2 at least.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2023
- Messages
- 1,109
- Location
- Australia
I guess the logic is that the aero on the swing arm puts load on the rear tyre without loading the suspension but it could be a way of getting around the rules.
Chris Vermeulen if I remember correctly was on Dunlop's when he won his MotoGP race and hence was a tyre underdog that season
Murder Marc, I use to see him that way so didn't like him. As he has changed so has my opinion on him and he has impressed this year.
I'll go for Martin winning the race this weekend. The sprint I don't know
Apparently Yamaha had a new chassis yesterday, which helped Quartararo in his performance.
I think my hypothesis is slowly coming true. The new aero, swinglets, the new chassis and eventually, the new engine are all attempts at fixing the turning.
I don’t think they are quite there yet but they’re closer than ever before.
I think my hypothesis is slowly coming true. The new aero, swinglets, the new chassis and eventually, the new engine are all attempts at fixing the turning.
I don’t think they are quite there yet but they’re closer than ever before.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2012
- Messages
- 998
Joan Mir is out of the rest of the weekend with a stomach bug. Joan Mir withdraws from San Marino MotoGP
Oh, is everything going to be behind spoilers?
If anyone's looking for the Moto2 results on Crash, they are mis-classified as Moto3.
Oh, is everything going to be behind spoilers?
If anyone's looking for the Moto2 results on Crash, they are mis-classified as Moto3.
Interesting free practice results for Moto2. If anyone is looking for them on Crash.net, they are mis-classified under Moto3. Dixon's purple patch may be coming to an end with him going through Q1. Though, we'll see. Ogura isn't too far off the pace in 6th, so depending on qualifying and the race, he may well be able to claw back some points on Garcia. Again. Garcia is way, way, off the pace. He's not the only Boscoscuro going through Q1, but he's way off the pace needed to go directly to Q2. Not looking good.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,290
- Location
- NJ
His crash yesterday was horrific. Moto 2 seems to be in a bid to see who can throw away more points on any given weekend.
Interesting.
Bez is the only GP23 that’s running the hybrid 2023-24 Aero today.
We know it was made available to both Diggia and M. Marquez in the past, so I wonder why they’ve chosen to not use it.
Also, the KTM Ride Shyte Device (TM) now goes as low as the Ducatis.
Great to see Bez getting his mojo back. I’d love to see him start his Aprilia journey with top confidence.
Bez is the only GP23 that’s running the hybrid 2023-24 Aero today.
We know it was made available to both Diggia and M. Marquez in the past, so I wonder why they’ve chosen to not use it.
Also, the KTM Ride Shyte Device (TM) now goes as low as the Ducatis.
Great to see Bez getting his mojo back. I’d love to see him start his Aprilia journey with top confidence.
Similar threads
