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In the immortal words of Jules Winfield (for he did not die in Pulp Fiction, and still walks the Earth): "Allow me to retort."
But first, a word from our sponsors at MultiQuoting, the only quotation tool that keeps your post count at a sane level.
I MultiQuoted in this topic, because in each instance I was replying to three other posters, but only responding to a sentence or short paragraph from each; it didn't seem worth it to write out a separate reply to each. Clearly it would have been worth the effort, since Michaelm not only thought the first multiquote was <u>from</u> baturro (
even though I quoted baturro), he also thought the whole reply was directed to him--hence his condescending (yes, really) response.
Relative anonymity, WTF? See that picture of Aaron Slight at the left of screen? See those letters a little above it that say 'Rising Sun'? That's who be writing these words.
I thought my first reply was in the same vein, too, pointing out the discrepancy in 125cc titles. Hell, I even thought the Scott Redding joke was funny, since you said Spanish were on the only winning situations. Note to self: next time include more
Yah for the Dodgers. Did Matsui play a season for them? In far more important news, India chased down 359 runs last night and only lost one-.......-wicket. .....
Before I go any further, as a variation on something you often write: smile when you read this post, because I was smiling when I wrote most of it.
Where to begin? Our fundamental point of disagreement is your contention that the 500/990/800/1000cc class is the premier class and has always and unquestionably been that way, and that the smaller category classes are and have always been
nothing more than junior, feeder categories to be used as stepping stones. I readily concede--and said as much in my most recent Top Ten post--that this is certainly the case now; it has not always been so. When did things change? Enter Dorna. Actually, it's probably not fair to blame them entirely; manufacturer interest, among other things, was waning through the nineties in the smaller capacity classes. But I will hold them chiefly responsible, because the fuckers turned the 250s into a spec engine class, and put a mother-....... age limit (of 28; ha! like anyone not named Hector Faubel would be seen dead in Moto3 anywhere near that age now) on the 125s. Basically, we went from 3 unique championships with their own (often self-contained) storylines to the ........ treadmill of youth we have today. I lament the passing of history.
The thing I used to love about a Grand Prix weekend was the 3 (or more) distinct classes that each required a different riding style. It was not a given that a good 125 rider was a good 250 rider or a good 500 rider (or any other variation therein). I find it extremely hard to believe that Wayne Gardner, the reigning 1987 500cc world champion, could have beaten Jorge Martinez to his 1988 125cc title. Many extremely talented individuals could and did change between the classes, of course, but the class specialists were what made each championship. As I said in the Top Ten, Cortese beat a self-destructing Vinales for his Moto3 title; Rossi had to battle with Ueda, Martinez, Tokudome, Manako, Sakata, McCoy, and Locatelli for his 125cc crown. Does Rossi's title mean nothing more to you than Sandro's? Fine, we have a fundamental difference of opinion. There's no point in continuing a discussion, but I'll respond to the rest of your post, since you took the time to write it.
I've cut out all your discussion about Mladin, etc., because the whole paragraph you were replying to was dripping with (I thought) obvious biting sarcasm (and hence was not worthy of discussion). I will point out, though, that Mladin was a failure in Grand Prix racing because he ignored all advice that Cagiva was a bad move for his career; Nieto was not a failure at Superbike racing, because he did not try Superbike racing.
Damn straight it was contemptuous. [Although, to be fair, it should not have been directed just at you, nor with such vitriol; I find the endless evil Spanish agenda tiresome and unproductive. Stamping your feet and saying it's not fair smells like entitlement to me.] Dorna have been in charge of Grand prix racing for more than twenty years; bitching about Spanish control only really kicked on when Spanish riders started to dominate the MotoGP class c.2010 onwards: ergo, no Spanish riders in the top class, no reverse-polarity Spanish inquisition.
Ok, you don't care for lower class titles, but everything else about them has you interested and entertained. Can you feel a tug on your cheek? Something solid in your mouth? The Dorna hook, line and sinker has pulled you in. That's exactly what they want you to think, and what they've been running with for the best part of ten years. They don't give a .... about the smaller category classes, either; just more teen bodies they push through the sausage grinder to the top. Promotion from within and often is what they peddle; hence the 'junior classes, time to move on' mantra. If you buy into that, you're pushing Dorna propaganda. They've pushed the idea of the Big Show relentlessly, and funnel everything to that end. Marlboro stickers used to be all over all three classes, but why are Philip Morris confined only to Ducati now? Sponsors gravitate to the increased exposure, and the money goes with it--another reason the 125s and 250s were dying.
I am cynical and I never claimed to be consistent. The most devastating argument you could make against my position would be: er, Rising Sun, who have you listed as your favourite riders? What class did they all compete in? [And no ........ wriggling out of it by saying Rainey did a year in the 250s in 1984.]
I guess I was also assuming you'd read the ridiculously long 8000 word Top Ten, particularly points #7 and #1, since I'm so fabulously brilliant. [vomit]
Yes, because, this attitude saddens me. It shows no appreciation of the history of Grand Prix racing in its entirety, and supposes simply that bigger is better. It's no surprise that this narrative is written by American/Australian/English (Rossi is/was a token Brit, especially on this board), because it's an predictable match between their definition of what's best and where they've been most successful.
I rather think his mini-moto titles brought him to the attention of Honda, who then kept him riding in the All Japan series for a little too long--he had four years of one-off wildcards at Suzuka and Motegi, finishing 3,1,1,5--before he was unleashed on the GP championship full-time. But these mini-moto titles, did he win them racing all around the world on Grand Prix circuits against the best in the world? Was he racing just against his age group, or against seasoned veterans and other hotshots? Was he a professional rider at this point, riding for a factory effort--with all that that entails?
Being given an NSR500, and remaining with Gresini, rather than move into the factory team, seems to fit with his extended 250s apprenticeship, actually. Honda had big plans for Kato, but they were in no rush. He did get the RC211V at the end of the 02 season, like Barros.
Oh yes, clearly--especially if they're the wonderful national junior titles. Daniel Falzon, the recently crowned Australian Supersport Champ has a wildcard this weekend in Moto2. He should win by a mile. Do you also remember how Wayne Maxwell covered himself in infamy a couple of years back?
Good thing there was no rookie rule in those days. Hayden underlines my point about the relentless promotion from within trend. Only a handful of riders from outside the series get a look in any more, now that Dorna and the GP paddock have become obsessively incestuous. And this is what hurts non-Spanish riders and sponsors... because who gives a .... about putting money into a couple of junior series in a Eurocentric sport, especially when the money is thin on the ground anyway?
I don't know, is he allowed to keep on cheating?
Hmm... let me think. 12+1 means something. 90 wins means something. A career spanning from the 1960s to 1980s... think of the different eras, and what it took to remain competitive, motivated and come out of it all in one piece. If that means nothing to you, then I guess you don't actually care about the history of non-500/990/800/1000cc Grand Prix racing after all.
Biaggi was a great 250 rider, Kato, too. It would've been fantastic to see them racing each other in the class, with Rossi and Harada and Capirossi. Biaggi didn't win a 500/900 title, but maybe Hayden couldn't have won a 250 one. What universal appeal? As I said before each class had its own unique flavour that meant something. That has been devalued under Dorna's stewardship, to the stage where the only point of contention in the Moto3 title chase is whether or not Rins wins it, and triggers his let's go, Moto2 clause. Everyone else who 'matters' is either already moving up, or moving to a better bike, or a young kid coming in.
Three cheers for a quote out of context. Riders say great things, don't they. Like this: "If you haven't won it [a title] in 2-3 years, you should get out and let someone else have a go." Kevin didn't .... off, did he?
Do you know if Josh ever seriously tried? If Bryan Staring--the very definition of journeyman--can buy(?) his way onto the Gresini Team, how could Hayes not? Oh, you want him on satellite or, yeah, right, factory machinery? If Yamaha won't stump up the cash for Nakasuga (also a double SBK champ), why on earth would they do so for Hayes?
See also: #7 MotoGP Teen, because it's too long to write it all out again here, and probably few reading this want to even take the time to skip over it.
Just on that whole Dorna, etc. influence thing: I was wondering why didn't Dorna block Stoner from signing with Repsol Honda? Or why didn't Repsol? Or why didn't Puig?
Also: are you kidding me? I've put up 10-15 posts in the last week, blowing my posts per week quota out of the water. I'm so far ahead on averages, I shouldn't venture back here until the start of next season.
Keep wearing the tin-foil sombrero; it looks cute, and PS wouldn't recognise you without it
