Will Rossi win a race? Going back in time a bit

Jumkie

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U mistake "decline" with not having exclusively all his way on a competitive machine, with special tires to boot. No "decline", just normal for his talent given the reality that most other riders have dealt with all their careers. Rossi would have been another Roberts JR, Lorenzo, Pedrosa had he not been given every possible exclusive benefit (while detrimental to others). Had he been on a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD to other similarly talented riders, as he is NOW, his records would have been 1/5 of what they are now.

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You negate the obvious thing like natural decline caused by age (and some trauma), -- my dear Jum, -- only because you want to push your theory as usual -- i.e. the rider called Valentino Rossi has never been that good and only won a string of titles in the 500-990 era, and again a couple of titles against the younger generation of riders in the 800 era, because of preferential treatment etc.


Now that apparently he's not that fast any more, you can finally target a sitting duck, shouting in exultation, "see, I always told you, he's no good and never was any good".


Your usual flawed logic. Feel free to carry on, if that satisfies you. But why bother me... 

Talpa

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Actually Jorge was bumped, to third by two Hondas on a Yamaha track, and VR was only a few seconds back on the WC.......you've been swallowing to much of the BS here on PS Kropo, either that or you're selectively marketing by agreeing with these clowns.......


 


Actually, besides Qatar 2013, Honda have whipped Jorge and Yamaha since mid 2012.......I would say the crew up the road is showing Forcada's boys how to operate.....actually


Honda will win the title this year, Easily,  Yamaha are well behind and need to re-evaluate their direction, great bike, but needs updating, Jorge's style is being found seriously wanting at present by two factory Hondas......maybe that's a good place to start 


 


Ducati need to quit right now, and the control tyre situation is worse than ever.........glad to see some here are re-iterating the sentiments I've been preaching around the Bridgestones control rubber issues for a while.

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Forcada and crew are doing an outstanding job. Marquez has Stoner's old crew, also an outstanding group. They are evenly matched. Burgess and co are still wandering around trying to figure out which is anus and which is humerus.

ah talpa good to have you back. ....... honda eh?


if the bike hadn't been led in the wrong development direction the m1 would be more about braking hard and thus rossi would have won 3 races this year already instead of being stuck on a POS bike that only one dude can ride.


shades of 2011

Kropotkin

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Forcada and crew are doing an outstanding job. Marquez has Stoner's old crew, also an outstanding group. They are evenly matched. Burgess and co are still wandering around trying to figure out which is anus and which is humerus.

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Funny how the "great team" including the man who got equal credit along with riders for many world titles now seem very lacking.

thedeal

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Yet you ignore facts like tyres flown in over night for one rider, and jum is deluded?

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They weren't just for one rider. And not so much deluded as a typical small-man's Napoleon complex.


 


Gotta make more noise - otherwise nobody will notice me down here!

Talpa

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 Yamaha are well behind and need to re-evaluate their direction, great bike, but needs updating, Jorge's style is being found seriously wanting at present by two factory Hondas......maybe that's a good place to start 

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It's either the bike is behind or his style is faulty, the fact he has won a race this season dictates it can't be both.


 


Given he won one race, has two podiums and got these last weekend, says there's nothing wrong with his riding:


 


Pole Lap:   Jorge LORENZO 1'38.673 161.3 Km/h


Fastest Lap: Lap: 2 Jorge LORENZO 1'39.565 159.9 Km/h


Circuit Record Lap: 2013 Jorge LORENZO 1'39.565 159.9 Km/h


 


His problem was tyres and the Yamaha is a little down on power - but still is rock-solid in high-speed corners and deadly under brakes.

thedeal

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Funny how the "great team" including the man who got equal credit along with riders for many world titles now seem very lacking.

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An Italian journalist said to me last year "It's not hard to win 16 world titles when you are crew chief to Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan and Valentino Rossi". And Burgess straight up admitted that Forcada was doing a better job to a French journalist friend of mine.

I said on here a while ago that if you have the best riders and the best bikes and they win it doesn't make you god as two years on the Desmo have proved.

Kropotkin

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An Italian journalist said to me last year "It's not hard to win 16 world titles when you are crew chief to Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan and Valentino Rossi". And Burgess straight up admitted that Forcada was doing a better job to a French journalist friend of mine.

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I think it is possible for crew chiefs to get old as well, not that I would ever have given JB quite as much credit as he got for the performances of the riders he crewed for. If he hadn't performed in the heyday of the riders concerned he wouldn't have been crewchief though, HRC in particular not being a notably sentimentalist organsisation..

michaelm

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I think it is possible for crew chiefs to get old as well, not that I would ever have given JB quite as much credit as he got for the performances of the riders he crewed for. If he hadn't performed in the heyday of the riders concerned he wouldn't have been crewchief though, HRC in particular not being a notably sentimentalist organsisation..

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Clearly he's a great crew chief, no doubt about that. But his ability has been flattered by the quality of riders he had.

Kropotkin

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Clearly he's a great crew chief, no doubt about that. But his ability has been flattered by the quality of riders he had.

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And the kit they had to work with.

Here's what Burgess said: "Jorge's the lead rider at Yamaha, and at this moment of time, he's faster than us. At 34, Valentino's towards the end of his career. Jorge has taken getting the balance in the bike to a different level, he's amazingly fast at a very high lean angle." 

BJ.C

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It's either the bike is behind or his style is faulty, the fact he has won a race this season dictates it can't be both.


 


Given he won one race, has two podiums and got these last weekend, says there's nothing wrong with his riding:


 


Pole Lap:   Jorge LORENZO 1'38.673 161.3 Km/h


Fastest Lap: Lap: 2 Jorge LORENZO 1'39.565 159.9 Km/h


Circuit Record Lap: 2013 Jorge LORENZO 1'39.565 159.9 Km/h


 


His problem was tyres and the Yamaha is a little down on power - but still is rock-solid in high-speed corners and deadly under brakes.

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Not to mention underfunded due to a lack of sponsorship.

All you Rossi neysayers will be sucking his balls when he starts winning again so stop it. Mugello baby.

sandplasma

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All you Rossi neysayers will be sucking his balls when he starts winning again so stop it. Mugello baby.

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 Put your money where your mouth is. How much you wanna bet?

Kropotkin

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Here's what Burgess said: "Jorge's the lead rider at Yamaha, and at this moment of time, he's faster than us. At 34, Valentino's towards the end of his career. Jorge has taken getting the balance in the bike to a different level, he's amazingly fast at a very high lean angle." 

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At least they have not lost clarity of mind.

Kropotkin

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Here's what Burgess said: "Jorge's the lead rider at Yamaha, and at this moment of time, he's faster than us. At 34, Valentino's towards the end of his career. Jorge has taken getting the balance in the bike to a different level, he's amazingly fast at a very high lean angle." 

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So Jorge has made the bike so specific to his riding style that if you don't use the same style, you've no chance.

J4rn0

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You negate the obvious thing like natural decline caused by age (and some trauma), -- my dear Jum, -- only because you want to push your theory as usual -- i.e. the rider called Valentino Rossi has never been that good and only won a string of titles in the 500-990 era, and again a couple of titles against the younger generation of riders in the 800 era, because of preferential treatment etc.


Now that apparently he's not that fast any more, you can finally target a sitting duck, shouting in exultation, "see, I always told you, he's no good and never was any good".


Your usual flawed logic. Feel free to carry on, if that satisfies you. But why bother me... 

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J4rno my friend, you are the guy who said Ducati were not doing anything for Rossi, while the rest of the sane world was observing the radical changes they were willing to make in the biggest of hurries for HIM.  Rossi was wining races up until the day he moved to Ducati.  Once there and only then was the first time the world ever had the privilege of seeing what the supposed GOAT was really about.  He hopped on the bike Stoner had just podiumed on a day earlier, yet VR couldn't even muster top ten.  This is all you need to know about his titles in his "youth".  Its ........ and you can't accept it and now have the "declining age" ........ to pedal.  You pedaled ........ that Ducati were not doing nothing, that was wrong.  No problem, Carmelo bailed him out AND as we have learned, is even signing the checks.  All this time I've been telling you but I suppose now you might believe it, though I know you won't, you can't.  So now what?  He is on a bike that has taken a minor development direction away from him and we see him beaten by a satellite rider.  Tell me, other than this year, when in Valentino's MotoGP career was not the development suitable to him?  Name the year? NONE! That is the answer. (In know, you probably will say 2011-2012, you know because Ducati never listened to Rossi.) That is the magnitude of having to ride somebody else bike.  Save Stoner who jumped on Capirossi's Ducati and smoked him, and then Pedrosa's Honda and smoked him.  That is real "alien" GOAT type talent.  You can claim all you want that Rossi is just an old man, bla bla bla, but he was challenging for titles the day he decided to pout and leave Yamaha!  At the time, winning races and beating Lorenzo on his good days.  One day removed, he sucked ... day one at Valencia on a Ducati.  The dots are there for you to connect.  Thing is, you only see YELLOW.   ....buddy.  

Keshav

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 Put your money where your mouth is. How much you wanna bet?

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You might lose this one dude.  Rossi wining at Mugello, its not only likely but its good for business.  


 


 


Welcome back Talpa.  Hope you have been good buddy.  We need more Rossi fans around here.  All the Stoner fans with few exceptions have left, not counting the ones who have now suddenly become Marquez fans...because he is sooo much like Stoner you know.  Its been very lean with only J4rno and a few holding up the Yellow flag.  

Dr No

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So Jorge has made the bike so specific to his riding style that if you don't use the same style, you've no chance.

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Jorge rides - he's not an engineer.