Who is tired of hearing

So... I can't take it anymore. This whole thing about Casey only winning because of his ride or his rubber is getting on my nerves. Why does everyone have to make excuses for why their favorite rider isn't on top? My excuse is that Vale isn't as good as Casey this year. I want Vale to win this year just so he can be he have a world championship in 500's, 990's, and 800's. Unfortunately, he's not as good as Stoner this year.

If the Ducati Bridgestone combination is so unbeatable then why aren't Capirossi, Hoffman, and Barros in the top 5? While it's been asked several times, no one has even attempted to answer it. And don't attribute it to d'Antin being a satellite team because they and Ducati have both said that they are running the same hardware. d'Antin was very open about how they've been getting so much support from Ducati that they're like a factory team with a different name.

Finally, since it's just been brought up, I don't think Hayden would've had any hopes of winning last year if Yamaha would've listened to Ellison about the bike being crap from the beginning. He did a great job staying consistent, but I'd call it a victory for Hayden AND Honda. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy an think he's got talent. And so far he's the only one not pissing and moaning about his tires. Hell, he hasn't even griped about Dani getting more HRC love than him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motojt @ Jul 28 2007, 01:24 AM) [snapback]81782[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So... I can't take it anymore. This whole thing about Casey only winning because of his ride or his rubber is getting on my nerves. Why does everyone have to make excuses for why their favorite rider isn't on top? My excuse is that Vale isn't as good as Casey this year. I want Vale to win this year just so he can be he have a world championship in 500's, 990's, and 800's. Unfortunately, he's not as good as Stoner this year.

If the Ducati Bridgestone combination is so unbeatable then why aren't Capirossi, Hoffman, and Barros in the top 5? While it's been asked several times, no one has even attempted to answer it. And don't attribute it to d'Antin being a satellite team because they and Ducati have both said that they are running the same hardware. d'Antin was very open about how they've been getting so much support from Ducati that they're like a factory team with a different name.

Finally, since it's just been brought up, I don't think Hayden would've had any hopes of winning last year if Yamaha would've listened to Ellison about the bike being crap from the beginning. He did a great job staying consistent, but I'd call it a victory for Hayden AND Honda. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy an think he's got talent. And so far he's the only one not pissing and moaning about his tires. Hell, he hasn't even griped about Dani getting more HRC love than him.

That's a great first post Motojt......unfortunately, I fear your common sense may take a beating from some who fail to realise that times are changing. It is so simple why Casey is leading the chase for the crown, he is the class act of the year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motojt @ Jul 28 2007, 10:24 AM) [snapback]81782[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So... I can't take it anymore. This whole thing about Casey only winning because of his ride or his rubber is getting on my nerves. Why does everyone have to make excuses for why their favorite rider isn't on top? My excuse is that Vale isn't as good as Casey this year. I want Vale to win this year just so he can be he have a world championship in 500's, 990's, and 800's. Unfortunately, he's not as good as Stoner this year.

If the Ducati Bridgestone combination is so unbeatable then why aren't Capirossi, Hoffman, and Barros in the top 5? While it's been asked several times, no one has even attempted to answer it. And don't attribute it to d'Antin being a satellite team because they and Ducati have both said that they are running the same hardware. d'Antin was very open about how they've been getting so much support from Ducati that they're like a factory team with a different name.

Finally, since it's just been brought up, I don't think Hayden would've had any hopes of winning last year if Yamaha would've listened to Ellison about the bike being crap from the beginning. He did a great job staying consistent, but I'd call it a victory for Hayden AND Honda. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy an think he's got talent. And so far he's the only one not pissing and moaning about his tires. Hell, he hasn't even griped about Dani getting more HRC love than him.


Yeah, great first post. Couldn't have said it better myself ... re: Ducati and Bridgestone. Casey at the start of the year was on a one year contract, was Ducati's fourth or fifth choice for the seat, is only in his second year in this class and I think some people just forget how young he and Dani are ... 21! That's amazing if you ask me!

Personally I think you could put him on one of the other factory bikes and he would still be competitive ... this is the "break through" year for him ... he must have bucket loads of self belief now!

I think casey my win most likely this year but nothing is certain but its looking like it, we'll see if yamahas new motor changes things but Im not sure if it'll be enough to bridge the 44point gap, but I really believe that by next year when honda and yamaha have most likely not only caught up but maybe surpassed ducati just because they have alot more money I dont think he will win next year as well but his title defence will most likely have more fight than haydens (sorry yes I know he has had terrible luck)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(news1213 @ Jul 28 2007, 12:07 AM) [snapback]81779[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So what if, in the remainder of this season, Casey runs into mechanical problems with his bike which causes him to have a couple of DNF's and maybe someone even punts him off the track accidently and causes him to loose points for that race..
Let's say Vale doesn't win anymore races this season but he gets on the podium for the last races and still ends up winning the title by a small margin..

Would Vale be considered the better rider of the season?

Probably not.


Are you suggesting Rossi made no mistakes last year? Watch again, then get over it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motojt @ Jul 28 2007, 01:24 AM) [snapback]81782[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If the Ducati Bridgestone combination is so unbeatable then why aren't Capirossi, Hoffman, and Barros in the top 5? While it's been asked several times, no one has even attempted to answer it.


Yeah good point. Its also worth noting that the next best placed Ducati in the standings is below the next best Micehlin shod Yamaha, so the supporting evidence makes the bike advantage appear reversed. Its pretty clear that the rider is making the difference.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Jul 28 2007, 02:26 AM) [snapback]81739[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Everyone, I want to see an end to all the snapping at each other.

TP70, I never want to see comments like yours on this forum. You do not threaten to assault other members under any circumstances, consider this your official warning.

CSCVAW, you've been told before to calm down and not react. If I were you I'd take careful note of that advice, our patience is running out.

Jazkat, don't react to posts that offend you, it doesn't do you any favours. That said, welcome to the forum.

Everyone else, calm down. I'll keep this thread open for now, but if this kind of behaviour goes on I'll just lock it.


Well I have been told. Perhaps if you had of done something about him on any number of the occasions that he has offended many or told people off or abused their comments then it would not have got to this.

I am over it and because visiting and contributing is voluntary I choose to not visit or contribute anymore. I will from now on just get my info from news websites etc. Shame because I have enjoyed some of the discussions on here and most of the time I feel I have contributed to discussions as well.

Have fun with CSCVAW. Ciao.

Final word: Casey Stoner World Champ 2007!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 28 2007, 07:28 AM) [snapback]81803[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>Yeah good point. Its also worth noting that the next best placed Ducati in the standings is below the next best Micehlin shod Yamaha, so the supporting evidence makes the bike advantage appear reversed. Its pretty clear that the rider is making the difference.
Also, if the Honda 212v and Michelin are so bad then why is Pedrosa running third? Say what you will about The Midget, but the kid's got mad talent. He's almost making a fan outa me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motojt @ Jul 28 2007, 09:15 AM) [snapback]81805[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Also, if the Honda 212v and Michelin are so bad then why is Pedrosa running third? Say what you will about The Midget, but the kid's got mad talent. He's almost making a fan outa me.


Well i'm already a bit of a fan and i think hes doing pretty damn well this season.

hi guys,

as this is the tyre thread i thought id post this, if its already been posted then sorry in advance.

"Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi finally agree"

when i saw that i was like what , who lol anyways heres the word for those who havent seen it.


For one of the first times bitter rivals Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi have agreed on something - that the tyre situation in Moto GP is ruining the championship. Biaggi has revealed that he thinks tyres are making too big a difference in MotoGP with recent races being decided by what rubber each rider is on and not rider ability.

In the last round of MotoGP in Laguna Seca, Rossi who uses Michelins was unable to match the pace of the his rival Bridgestone runners and had to settle for fourth claiming that Bridgestone’s race tyres were as good as his own Michelin qualifiers at the American track.

Since his arrival in WSB this season, Biaggi has been a fan of the one make Pirelli tyre and believes controlled tyres are the way forward for MotoGP.

Speaking exclusively to MCN, he said:

“The tyres play too big differences, and of course there are riders who take the advantages and others that don’t. A few years ago I suggested that this would be the way to go, but at the time nobody took care of it. Today everybody agrees.

“I think they should use a single tyre manufacturer and I believe they will achieve this in the future. Using a single tyre means a better balance in performance, which means that you can understand the skill of each rider and the qualities of each bike. You have genuine competition and a better show during the races. This is why we have seen F1 go in this direction.”

if anyone of you guys have ever raced before, then you would know tires is #1 in the setup of the bike. (other than rider of course)

you can try change all sorts of stuff to get setup right, but if you dont have the right tires, then forget about it.

its the truth, thats why everyone who races talks about tires.

however having said that, rossi cant cry now. hes been crying about engine this engine that, tires this tires that. lets wait till we get on the smaller track. i will kick his ... at my home track donnington.

big fried egg on his face.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Jul 28 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]81933[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
hi guys,

as this is the tyre thread i thought id post this, if its already been posted then sorry in advance.

"Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi finally agree"

when i saw that i was like what , who lol anyways heres the word for those who havent seen it.
For one of the first times bitter rivals Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi have agreed on something - that the tyre situation in Moto GP is ruining the championship. Biaggi has revealed that he thinks tyres are making too big a difference in MotoGP with recent races being decided by what rubber each rider is on and not rider ability.

In the last round of MotoGP in Laguna Seca, Rossi who uses Michelins was unable to match the pace of the his rival Bridgestone runners and had to settle for fourth claiming that Bridgestone’s race tyres were as good as his own Michelin qualifiers at the American track.

Since his arrival in WSB this season, Biaggi has been a fan of the one make Pirelli tyre and believes controlled tyres are the way forward for MotoGP.

Speaking exclusively to MCN, he said:

“The tyres play too big differences, and of course there are riders who take the advantages and others that don’t. A few years ago I suggested that this would be the way to go, but at the time nobody took care of it. Today everybody agrees.

“I think they should use a single tyre manufacturer and I believe they will achieve this in the future. Using a single tyre means a better balance in performance, which means that you can understand the skill of each rider and the qualities of each bike. You have genuine competition and a better show during the races. This is why we have seen F1 go in this direction.”


Why not just go with a single bike manufacturer if you think that way.The tire guys are racing for the same reason the bike makers are,customers.Lets pick one bike manufacturer,one spec tire,one spec suspension,see how silly that sounds,Racing is about competition between riders,Bike manufacturers,and tire suppliers.It has only become an issue because the right guy is not on the right tire,and i think everybody knows who im talking about.If he was on the right tire and had won 6-7 races this year and was running away with the points,people would happy as pigs in ....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 28 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]81935[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Why not just go with a single bike manufacturer if you think that way.The tire guys are racing for the same reason the bike makers are,customers.Lets pick one bike manufacturer,one spec tire,one spec suspension,see how silly that sounds,Racing is about competition between riders,Bike manufacturers,and tire suppliers.It has only become an issue because the right guy is not on the right tire,and i think everybody knows who im talking about.If he was on the right tire and had won 6-7 races this year and was running away with the points,people would happy as pigs in ....


Yeah i agree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 28 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]81935[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Why not just go with a single bike manufacturer if you think that way.The tire guys are racing for the same reason the bike makers are,customers.Lets pick one bike manufacturer,one spec tire,one spec suspension,see how silly that sounds,Racing is about competition between riders,Bike manufacturers,and tire suppliers.It has only become an issue because the right guy is not on the right tire,and i think everybody knows who im talking about.If he was on the right tire and had won 6-7 races this year and was running away with the points,people would happy as pigs in ....


I agree with your first point - but once you start going on about this only being an issue because the right guy is not winning you lose me. So no rider at any time is allowed to complain about any part of his bike as not being perfect? So Guintoli and Tamada running Dunlops has no affect on their placing at each race. If a tyre on a particular race day isn't as good as another tyre can't the rider (Valentino) say so. The Michelins were clearly not as good as the Bridgestones at Laguna Seca. Are we supposed to deny reality?

We are only halfway through the first season of the new tyre regulations. Michelin, by and large, have been beaten by Bridgestone so far - if Michelen turn it round for the 2nd half and the right person starts winning, will others complain? I can imagine it now - "Rossi only won because of the tyres ... ". However, I think Stoner is on the best bike with the best tyres but he is doing a hell of a job and he deserves all the praise he is getting!

Also, someone else mentioned about Michelin quitting F1. They didn't. They said they were not interested in a single supplier series as they want to compete with other manufacturers, so they didn't quote for the new contract.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Valerian @ Jul 28 2007, 02:28 PM) [snapback]81944[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I agree with your first point - but once you start going on about this only being an issue because the right guy is not winning you lose me. So no rider at any time is allowed to complain about any part of his bike as not being perfect? So Guintoli and Tamada running Dunlops has no affect on their placing at each race. If a tyre on a particular race day isn't as good as another tyre can't the rider (Valentino) say so. The Michelins were clearly not as good as the Bridgestones at Laguna Seca. Are we supposed to deny reality?

We are only halfway through the first season of the new tyre regulations. Michelin, by and large, have been beaten by Bridgestone so far - if Michelen turn it round for the 2nd half and the right person starts winning, will others complain? I can imagine it now - "Rossi only won because of the tyres ... ". However, I think Stoner is on the best bike with the best tyres but he is doing a hell of a job and he deserves all the praise he is getting!

Also, someone else mentioned about Michelin quitting F1. They didn't. They said they were not interested in a single supplier series as they want to compete with other manufacturers, so they didn't quote for the new contract.


They can complain about anything they like but when their ilk start calling for a spec tire,its hypoctitical at best.Its funny how the series didnt need fixing when he was dominatong on Michelins and Bridgestones was getting its head handed to them.This is all about the huge Rossi fan base looking for excuses as to why their god is failing them.He won titles with a superior tire,he can lose a couple to a superior tire.

Well, I'm a Rossi fan and I'm not complaining. I would like Rossi to win the title but more than anything I want the races and the championship itself to be exciting - Casey disappearing into the distance at Laguna was impressive but from a racing pov it was pretty dull.

I can see the argument for a single tyre rule and in other classes it may be appropriate but I don't think it is appropriate for Motogp or for that matter F1.

Steve

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Valerian @ Jul 28 2007, 03:39 PM) [snapback]81951[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well, I'm a Rossi fan and I'm not complaining. I would like Rossi to win the title but more than anything I want the races and the championship itself to be exciting - Casey disappearing into the distance at Laguna was impressive but from a racing pov it was pretty dull.

I can see the argument for a single tyre rule and in other classes it may be appropriate but I don't think it is appropriate for Motogp or for that matter F1.

Steve


You hit the nail on the head,its a pov.Ask yourself a qustion and be honest.When Rossi was kicking everyones brains out and winning by 7-10 seconds,as a fan,that was exciting to you.But its not exciting when Stoner does the same thing.Its human nature to think that way when you are a fan of a certain rider.Historically prototype racing is not close racing,someone usually has the better mousetrap and right at this very minute its Ducati and Bridgestone.Thats what makes it great,forcing the engineers to never stand pat.Michelin or Honda,or Yamaha could hit on something tommorow that could swing the balance in their favor.

As a rossi fan which i will probably be attacked for my comments in a predominently stoner supporting thread
1 - im not being biased
2 - the tyre issues are FACT

For years michelin have been able to examine the track on a friday and fly in the necessary tyres for the track conditions
However, as now tyres must be chosen on a thursday they are unable to do this

Bridgestone, all credit to them, have been using the tyres they arrived with all along and so have probably suffered for it in the last few years which is why michelin have been dominant.


Now Bridgestone have the upper hand as the rules follow what they have been doing all along which they deserve as theyve put in the work. Michelin are now struggling to get used to the new rule which is why rossi has been having many tyre problems as have many michelin riders.

If there is no tyre problems why in some races are there 2 or 3 max michelin riders in the top ten compared to before rule change last year when it was reverse with few Bs in top ten.


If you were rossi would you not be annoyed that you were trying to defend your championship, yet your tyres were limiting your performance and then having to endure people saying you were washed up, your heart isnt in it...think how he must feel.

No one is trying to take away from casey what he has achieved.
people who say rossi is winging and that the tyre problems are non existant are trying to elevate stoner higher on the pedastool they have him on by discrediting his main rival.


MotoGP: Casey Stoner says tyre complaints are just whinging
By Matthew Birt

MotoGP

27 July 2007 13:29


CASEY STONER reckons Valentino Rossi's complaints about the new tyre rule are just sour grapes as the Australian takes giant steps towards a first MotoGP world title.

Typical example of something someone who wasnt affected by tyre problems would say.

He had the best tyres last year - michelins
He has the best tyres this year - Bridgestones

Without goig on michelins now how would he know what they handled like? Doesnt the shreaded rubber at the end of races speak for itself tut

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 28 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]81954[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You hit the nail on the head,its a pov.Ask yourself a qustion and be honest.When Rossi was kicking everyones brains out and winning by 7-10 seconds,as a fan,that was exciting to you.But its not exciting when Stoner does the same thing.Its human nature to think that way when you are a fan of a certain rider.Historically prototype racing is not close racing,someone usually has the better mousetrap and right at this very minute its Ducati and Bridgestone.Thats what makes it great,forcing the engineers to never stand pat.Michelin or Honda,or Yamaha could hit on something tommorow that could swing the balance in their favor.


Well, I've only been watching Motogp since just before the 990s so I don't go back that far. (I did watch some races of Sheene when I was a kid.) As honest as I can be, no, I didn't enjoy Rossi (or anyone for that matter) disappearing into the distance and I've never especially like 250s as this seems to be the trend in this class whereas 125s always had close racing. I've watch F1 regularly since the early 90s and I watched in vain as the racing was largely boring with the odd exciting race - i.e. like Montreal or Germany this year.

Motogp was the opposite - lots of exciting races with the odd boring one thrown in. Rossi & Gibernau on a last lap showdown; Mugello in 2006; Stoner & Rossi at Catalunya and Assen; racers going toe to toe, great fun. Maybe I've been spoilt and I've watched Motogp during a Golden Age of close racing and close finishes and from what I've read the 990s were easier to ride than the 500s and the 800s. Maybe this allowed the riders to ride around or over problems, I don't know, just speculating. Maybe it's just the first year of new regulations and when it all settles down, the racing, the show, will be as good as the last few years, I certainly hope so.

I think everyone needs to calm down and look at the state of the tyre war at the end of the season. There were extremely close races at the start of the season and lately there has been a few lopsided results going in certain riders favour!
Michelin had it over everyone for years and now they're losing a few races and it seems the end of motoGP (according to some) is nigh.
I predict michelin will win a few more races by the end of the year and so will Bridgestone! Remember the Repsol honda has been a pretty ordinary bike for most of the season and michelin and Repsol honda are used to winning lot's of races. Hasn't happened, bad luck!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Jul 28 2007, 04:25 PM) [snapback]81958[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
As a rossi fan which i will probably be attacked for my comments in a predominently stoner supporting thread
1 - im not being biased
2 - the tyre issues are FACT

For years michelin have been able to examine the track on a friday and fly in the necessary tyres for the track conditions
However, as now tyres must be chosen on a thursday they are unable to do this

Bridgestone, all credit to them, have been using the tyres they arrived with all along and so have probably suffered for it in the last few years which is why michelin have been dominant.
Now Bridgestone have the upper hand as the rules follow what they have been doing all along which they deserve as theyve put in the work. Michelin are now struggling to get used to the new rule which is why rossi has been having many tyre problems as have many michelin riders.

If there is no tyre problems why in some races are there 2 or 3 max michelin riders in the top ten compared to before rule change last year when it was reverse with few Bs in top ten.
If you were rossi would you not be annoyed that you were trying to defend your championship, yet your tyres were limiting your performance and then having to endure people saying you were washed up, your heart isnt in it...think how he must feel.

No one is trying to take away from casey what he has achieved.
people who say rossi is winging and that the tyre problems are non existant are trying to elevate stoner higher on the pedastool they have him on by discrediting his main rival.
MotoGP: Casey Stoner says tyre complaints are just whinging
By Matthew Birt

MotoGP

27 July 2007 13:29
CASEY STONER reckons Valentino Rossi's complaints about the new tyre rule are just sour grapes as the Australian takes giant steps towards a first MotoGP world title.

Typical example of something someone who wasnt affected by tyre problems would say.

He had the best tyres last year - michelins
He has the best tyres this year - Bridgestones

Without goig on michelins now how would he know what they handled like? Doesnt the shreaded rubber at the end of races speak for itself tut


I have figured out why there is so much snipping on this site.Its exasparating to try to explain things over and over and over.Ill try one more time.Nobody denies Bridgestone is better than Michelin, NOW.That is obvious.The million dollar ? is why,all of a sudden are a large % fans calling for a spec tire.The answer is obvious.When you go to a GP venue it all Rossi all the Time.His fans out number the other riders combined.Fan comes from the word fanatic.All Rossi has to do is complain and the Hordes will do the rest.They will burn up the airwaves to get the message out.Read your own post,you guess Bridgestone was at a disadvantage for a few years [you think]. But now Michelin has to play by the same rules and somehow you have convinced yourself that they are the victims and are at a disadvantage because they are not allowed the advantages that made them dominant.Lets put it in a different perspective.Two guys are put in a ring to fight.One has a bat,the other his fist.The guy with the bat beats the .... out the other guy for years and then they take his bat away and the other guy is suddenly kicking his ....In your world,you would give the bat back because somehow you see him as being at a disadvantage.I dont get it.If everyone from the Bike builder to the tire makers are playing by the same set of rules [Finally] what is the arguement.Ducati and Bridgestone are better at this moment,shut the F$#% up,go to work, and overcome.I dont really know any other way to put it.