Who is tired of hearing

Its not good for the sport when bridgstone win a race by 30seconds and the next Round its Michelin (altho the ratio is obviously not as good as that)

I feel also the electronics have closed the gap more than the tyres, remember Rossi won a race after getting a penalty. That seems almost impossible now because even the average riders are no more than 1 second off the pace.

I don't want to be a stickler, but Stoner didn't win Laguna by 30 seconds. He just beat Rossi by 30 seconds. A lot of people are pretty focused on the "30 Seconds" as if he just annihilated all opposition, and while it was a decisive victory, it wasn't at all boring for me.

So to summarize the thread thus far: yes Bridgestone is outperforming Michelin this year. No, that's not the only reason Rossi isn't winning.

According to Michelin and Bridgestone, they proposed the new tire rule to lower their own costs and "give Dunlop a fighting chance." I happen to like it as it keeps everyone honest. I always thought the Overnight Special was a pretty shady practice.

In closing, I just wanted to know if anyone else follows Colin Edward's column in TWO Magazine. I remember him saying how he was in favor of the new rule because while Vale always got the overnight special he never did. Stoner said the same thing. Now that he (Edwards) is doing even worse than last year he hates it. Plus he spelled Sachsenring as "Saxonring" and that's just rude. I really don't like that guy.

P.S: Thanks for the support for my first thread. I was waiting to be doused in gasoline.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 29 2007, 12:18 AM) [snapback]81966[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I have figured out why there is so much snipping on this site.Its exasparating to try to explain things over and over and over.Ill try one more time.Nobody denies Bridgestone is better than Michelin, NOW.That is obvious.The million dollar ? is why,all of a sudden are a large % fans calling for a spec tire.The answer is obvious.When you go to a GP venue it all Rossi all the Time.His fans out number the other riders combined.Fan comes from the word fanatic.All Rossi has to do is complain and the Hordes will do the rest.They will burn up the airwaves to get the message out.Read your own post,you guess Bridgestone was at a disadvantage for a few years [you think]. But now Michelin has to play by the same rules and somehow you have convinced yourself that they are the victims and are at a disadvantage because they are not allowed the advantages that made them dominant.Lets put it in a different perspective.Two guys are put in a ring to fight.One has a bat,the other his fist.The guy with the bat beats the .... out the other guy for years and then they take his bat away and the other guy is suddenly kicking his ....In your world,you would give the bat back because somehow you see him as being at a disadvantage.I dont get it.If everyone from the Bike builder to the tire makers are playing by the same set of rules [Finally] what is the arguement.Ducati and Bridgestone are better at this moment,shut the F$#% up,go to work, and overcome.I dont really know any other way to put it.



but am i complaining for michelin....no...i even said ducati deserve to be having success now after theyve struggled. read in future. i never mentioned the word victims either

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Jul 28 2007, 02:26 AM) [snapback]81739[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Everyone, I want to see an end to all the snapping at each other.

TP70, I never want to see comments like yours on this forum. You do not threaten to assault other members under any circumstances, consider this your official warning.

CSCVAW, you've been told before to calm down and not react. If I were you I'd take careful note of that advice, our patience is running out.

Jazkat, don't react to posts that offend you, it doesn't do you any favours. That said, welcome to the forum.

Everyone else, calm down. I'll keep this thread open for now, but if this kind of behaviour goes on I'll just lock it.


WHY ME 'ISRAELI'!!! IM JUST REACTING TO WHATS BEEN SAID TOWARDS ME AND ABOUT ME...AND THE ACCUSATIONS FRETED TOWARDS ME!!! AND ABOUT ME!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Jul 29 2007, 12:29 PM) [snapback]81973[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its not good for the sport when bridgstone win a race by 30seconds and the next Round its Michelin (altho the ratio is obviously not as good as that)

I feel also the electronics have closed the gap more than the tyres, remember Rossi won a race after getting a penalty. That seems almost impossible now because even the average riders are no more than 1 second off the pace.


WHY NOT???..MICHELIN DID LOTS OF TIMES!!! SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT IN 2007!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CSCVAW @ Jul 29 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]82031[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
WHY NOT???..MICHELIN DID LOTS OF TIMES!!! SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT IN 2007!!!
So you don't want to see close racing?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 27 2007, 01:04 AM) [snapback]81540[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Your right Roger,behind a screen and a keyboard, everybody is 10 feet tall and bullet proof and they can ride a bike like a Gp racer.Its fun to talk on the internet and then meet the people that are allways talking about kicking someones ... and how they rail thru the twisties.They are usually 5'5" and go a buck fifty and are slower than stink off a frozen turd.I live near one of the motorcycle mecca's of the world as far as people traveling to ride a certain stretch of road .Deals Gap,Hwy 129,aka the Dragon, and just about every bike that has a forum holds their rallys here.Since im a local i lead a lot of rides on these rallys and its comical to watch these guys you have met on the net and how much differnt they are in person.


I agree I live next to eastern creek raceway and have raced and gone around the creek thousands of times povol!!!...Be it on a cycle or motorcar...so I would really like TP70 to give me a challenge around anything mate!!! And also as he said ‘If you conversed with me face to face like you post I would punch your ....... lights out....” I’d like to see that TP70...you’re kidding me...and grow up TP!!!...the challenge is on mate...



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goatboy @ Jul 29 2007, 11:16 PM) [snapback]82048[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So you don't want to see close racing?


It's not about close racing...sure I want to see close racing, as long as Casey wins...lol...NoNoNo...don’t jump to any conclusions...please!!!....but people are forgetting that the Michelins have won more races than I can remember over the years by more than 30 seconds and no one has said nothing about that!!!....so why shouldn’t Bridgestone or Dunlop do the same...and all of a sudden everybody is saying:..change the rules!!! That is all I was saying!!! And it’s a JOKE!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 28 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]81947[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
They can complain about anything they like but when their ilk start calling for a spec tire,its hypoctitical at best.Its funny how the series didnt need fixing when he was dominatong on Michelins and Bridgestones was getting its head handed to them.This is all about the huge Rossi fan base looking for excuses as to why their god is failing them.He won titles with a superior tire,he can lose a couple to a superior tire.


Jeezz, calm down, when bridgestone had their head (...?) handed to them no one, and I guss, including you, cared as there were no championship contenders running on those tires. "Everybody" were on michelins, so why would anyone complain. And indeed nobody did, even those that got free Bridgestones were happy. When there are real championship contenders on both tires, and one make a significant difference the discusssion is bound to come up.
To claim that it's only about Rossi now sounds a bit paranoid to me.
Go back a few postes and see where Biaggi agree with him. Hardly because of his love for Rossi?
And for the record, I'm a Rossi fan, but not a fan of single tire regulation.
I want the tire war to continue and to be a power to drive the development. But just as in all other motorsports, the goal is close racing. And that's not what we see now. That the two brands switch postitions is not what anyone really wants in the log run, especially when there are chmpionship contender on both sides, even if surpricingly many are so anti michelin, that they seem to prefer rules where the stones come out best and ".... michelin". Anyway, if there continue to be such huge differences from race to race, I think the rules need to be looked into. Not to create a new specific advantage to anyone, but so that both are able to deliver their best.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Jul 29 2007, 05:18 AM) [snapback]82000[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
but am i complaining for michelin....no...i even said ducati deserve to be having success now after theyve struggled. read in future. i never mentioned the word victims either

But why are you complaining for Michelin,are you a large stockholder.Your complaining because your rider is not doing as well as you would like.This has nothing to do with your love of Michelin.The rules are the same for everybody.The funny part is,im a Rossi fan and i run Michelin Pilot powers on my bike.I just cant stand to see inequity and blinded loyalty mindsets that defy logic. Why does no one respond to the fact that it was ok when Rossi was pounding people into submission,now they want to argue about close racing.Its very transparent.

The playing field has been levelled, both Michelin and Bridgestone knew the formats at the same time,...as did Dunlop come to that. The same goes with all other parts of the bike this year.

Nobody has an advantage, the season is exciting for me purely because it is a transitionary year in Moto GP, with new talent forging their way to the front and some older riders starting to lose ground. This is what happens if you've watched sport for more than one generation.

So come on folks, let's stop the bickering and take a few tongue in cheek comments with a little more humour.

I'm sure one thing we have to agree on though is that overnight shipping of bespoke tyres for one rider was an unfair advantage, of that there can be no question.

A lot of people seem to forget that Rossi and Burgess have done the impossible just a couple of years ago.. win on a Yamaha.

A lot of people seem to forget that Rossi is so consistently good that he is a 5 time world champion. Look at Hayden, he became champion last year because he wasn't the best at every race.. but because he was the most consistently good. And Rossi got 2nd. He did have a few problems with his bike/tires last year but thats racing. He still managed 2nd.

And a lot of people seem to forget that even tho Rossi is on a weaker bike and is having tire issues, he's in 2nd in points so far this year.

Bikes may change. Tires may change. But Rossi is the best consistently. Biaggi came and went. Gibernau came and went. Nicky came and went. Stoner will come and go. But Rossi will always contend for 1st.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Jul 29 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]82074[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Bikes may change. Tires may change. But Rossi is the best consistently.

Rossi is amongst the best consistently, thats what makes him the best rider of all time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Jul 29 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]82074[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
A lot of people seem to forget that Rossi and Burgess have done the impossible just a couple of years ago.. win on a Yamaha.

With bespoke overnight tyres too!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Jul 29 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]82074[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
A lot of people seem to forget that Rossi is so consistently good that he is a 5 time world champion.
Make that 7!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Jul 29 2007, 08:35 PM) [snapback]82074[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Bikes may change. Tires may change. But Rossi is the best consistently. Biaggi came and went. Gibernau came and went. Nicky came and went. Stoner will come and go. But Rossi will always contend for 1st.


He he, I guess that's the only thing we know is not true. It takes so much dedication, so many sacrefices in your personal life, so much desire to win and finaly so many fine tuned reflexes and physical demands, that sooner or later, Rossi will be to old for the sport.

Hovever, I'm not at all conviced that there is such a generation shift going on as some her so despeartly wants, but if Rossi loose his love and dedication, 2008 may be his last season. If so, they may be right, if not, I'm affraid they will have to endure with Rossi as the ever podium and championship fighter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Jul 29 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]82074[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Bikes may change. Tires may change. But Rossi is the best consistently. Biaggi came and went. Gibernau came and went. Nicky came and went. Stoner will come and go. But Rossi will always contend for 1st.

I'm not saying anything negative about Valentino, nor am I forgetting his outrageous achievements on a motorcycle. He will surely go down in the annuls of history as a truly great champion.

All I'm saying is that this is 2007!

That's also a bit of a sweeping statement about Casey Stoner!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Jul 29 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]82079[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hovever, I'm not at all conviced that there is such a generation shift going on as some here so desperately want, but if Rossi lose his love and dedication, 2008 may be his last season. If so, they may be right, if not, I'm affraid they will have to endure with Rossi as the ever podium and championship fighter.


I hope you don't include me in that desperation comment, because I couldn't give a toss who wins as I am simply a follower of all motorsport. I'm 41 today, I grew up with Barry Sheene battling Kenny Roberts, and seen some great champions come and go. Of course Valentino will be battling for the win so long as he still has the desire to throw his leg over a motorcycle. This will be true if he goes to 4 wheels in whatever form.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 29 2007, 05:18 PM) [snapback]82065[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
But why are you complaining for Michelin,are you a large stockholder.Your complaining because your rider is not doing as well as you would like.This has nothing to do with your love of Michelin.The rules are the same for everybody.The funny part is,im a Rossi fan and i run Michelin Pilot powers on my bike.I just cant stand to see inequity and blinded loyalty mindsets that defy logic. Why does no one respond to the fact that it was ok when Rossi was pounding people into submission,now they want to argue about close racing.Its very transparent.



what????? i think u need to learn to read and try to comprehend the information you take it [which you seem to distorte] im not complaining about michelin im saying they have a problem
am i screaming that rossi would be winning without his michelins not always supporting him best ... no...ive said i accept stoner is tough this season and is riding fantatic. I accepted stoners talents but it seems to me your one of those people that wants to make stoner appear even better by belittling rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burky @ Jul 29 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]82078[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
With bespoke overnight tyres too!
Make that 7!


This Gibernau peddled ........ about Rossi only winning cos of his special Roswell hanger 51 Michelin tyres is exactly that-......... Michelin offered the same level of factory support to HRC Repsol and Gresini who during the last 5 years housed his main rivals. People like Gibernau just couldn't take it that Rossi was better and the master of riding a worn tyre. Rossis tyres were always available to the other Michelin riders- the only problem was and is that he ALWAYS 99 times out of a 100 runs a much harder compound and construction than the rest. Gibernau tried to run Rossis tyres but juct couldn't and so always returned to his softer choice. This was one reason why Rossi could always destroy Gibernau over the last couple of laps of any race

Rossi and Burgess have both gone on record as saying that the overnight little blue Michelin van was rarely used. Burgess has also described how he can tell by his style of riding what lap of the race Rossi is on. It is this ability to constantly adapt his riding that has made him 7 times world champion.

Its just a shame that the egos of people like Gibernau never allowed him to admit that Rossi was just plain better but instead to hide behind excuses like "he's got a better bike" (eer what about 2004 and 2005 Sete?) or he's got extra special Michelin tyres

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rc30 @ Jul 30 2007, 08:02 PM) [snapback]82219[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This Gibernau peddled ........ about Rossi only winning cos of his special Roswell hanger 51 Michelin tyres is exactly that-......... Michelin offered the same level of factory support to HRC Repsol and Gresini who during the last 5 years housed his main rivals. People like Gibernau just couldn't take it that Rossi was better and the master of riding a worn tyre. Rossis tyres were always available to the other Michelin riders- the only problem was and is that he ALWAYS 99 times out of a 100 runs a much harder compound and construction than the rest. Gibernau tried to run Rossis tyres but juct couldn't and so always returned to his softer choice. This was one reason why Rossi could always destroy Gibernau over the last couple of laps of any race

Rossi and Burgess have both gone on record as saying that the overnight little blue Michelin van was rarely used. Burgess has also described how he can tell by his style of riding what lap of the race Rossi is on. It is this ability to constantly adapt his riding that has made him 7 times world champion.

Its just a shame that the egos of people like Gibernau never allowed him to admit that Rossi was just plain better but instead to hide behind excuses like "he's got a better bike" (eer what about 2004 and 2005 Sete?) or he's got extra special Michelin tyres


I think you may be a bit unfair on Gibernau - all the riders have big egos when they are on a bike and racing. When Gibbers was racing, I wouldn't expect him or any other rider to admit that they were second best. If you admit someone is better than you, you've probably lost before the race has started. I am sure every rider on the grid is thinking that if they were on Casey's bike they'd be winning like Casey is. Some would, most wouldn't.

Rossi said after his defeat in America he would consider proposing changes to the tyre regulations.

Under 2007 restrictions, Michelin are unable to bring in hand-made tyres overnight from their factory and all riders are restricted to 17 nominated rear tyres for each race weekend.

"This rule is not good and we need more tyres," Rossi said.

"The problem is for the show because at the end it is the tyre that decides the race."

Until this year Michelin had dominated MotoGP competition with Rossi winning five world championships and 61 races.

However Rossi's famed crew chief, the Adelaide-based engineer Jerry Burgess with 12 world championships to his credit, agrees with Stoner.

"The tyre rule has not been the main reason for Valentino not winning races this season, Burgess said.

"I like the rule, it's equal for everyone and think it should stay."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Sport/Stop-w...5647809982.html

Control Tire
Control Tyre
Control Tire
Control Tyre

ERm yep, Rossi in my opinion has relied a lot on outbraking this season. Sometimes to brilliant effect sometimes not, but being heavy on the brakes won't be good in terms of tyre management. Bridgstone just have pulled something out of the bag in terms of tyres, that's life, but things change quickly in the motorsport environment, you hope that michelin haven't been twiddling their thumbs through the break, but I guess the new rules, new engine has been a massive learning curve for everyone, Even Stoner, though he has seemed to have made it look easy this year, and good on him. But obvioulsy close racing is what we want to see and hoping for some big fights at the front for the rest of the season. But it has been the same for everyone, stamping feet cos you ain't winning is rather hard to hear, especially when the one stamping feet wanted the rule bringing in. Aah well anyway, it makes life more interesting doesn't it? But before I get bashed, I love em all every single last one of them.

XX Liz