Who is tired of hearing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 24 2007, 10:23 PM) [snapback]81188[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Pedrosa had superior rides compared to Stoner because of who he was.It was a given that he would end up in Gp with what people thought would be the dominant ride.What goes around,comes around.


Stoner rode more than adaquate kit in the smaller classes and had he been the better rider he would definitely have come out on top of Dani.

Bringing individual riders to this discussion, be it Rossi, Stoner or Pedrosa does nothing to anyone's argument other than make it obviously subjective. Obviously there are disparities among the tires. As has been said, Go from Sachsenring where Bridgestone runners (with the exception of Capirossi's freak podium) fell off and allowed the Michelin guys to take the top spots to Laguna Seca where Bridgestone swept the podium.

This used to be the case based on geography. In Europe, Michelin had everyone covered and when they moved to the fly away rounds in Asia Bridgestone was unstoppable. And those who say this was never an issue before because the only title contenders were on Michelin are somewhat right. On the same token, there are more contenders for race wins and potentially championships than ever before. When was the last time you could say that all factory Honda, Yamaha, Ducati, Suzuki and Kawasaki riders are theoretically capable of winning races?

It's not about whether the Ducati is outright miles better than the rest or Stoner is having a top shelf season or Rossi is Rossi. It's about having more contenders than ever with more top shelf tire choices in 15 years.

At the risk of sounding like a bandwaggoning Stoner fanboy I'd like to ask, if Stoner was having as much (little) success so far this season as his team mate, and the Championship was being led by Rossi followed by Pedrosa, would this discussion be taking place?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 24 2007, 09:26 PM) [snapback]81165[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You guys are still not facing up,like i said,when Bridgestone came on board in 03 i believe,the Michelin was the dominant tire.Did Rossi say when he was winning title after title that the main reason he won was the tires.But now when the Michelin riders lose,its the tires.They need to shut up and go to work and overcome the problems like Ducati and Bridgestone did.As far as baseball and golf,NAH,they would complain that somebody had a better ball or bat.Its the times we live in,failure is allways someone elses fault.


Who's not facing up?
Why should Rossi say he was winning over second rate bikes, second rate rider and second rate tires, "because of the tires"?
Doesn't that sound a little stuid to you too?

On the other hand, and more in racing than any other sport I know about, you will find pure exuses. But that's because of the nature of the sport. These guys need to be confident, and need to be confident in their equipment. To inflate that confidence they blame others. They all do more or less, get used to it or find an other sport to follow.

But putting blame where blame is due, is not excuses.
Alternativly give credit to the competetiors tires only, not the rider, but that make it look even worse, doesn't it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 24 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]81134[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Before the Rossi fanatics get their panties in a wad,let me say that i am a Rossi fan and if it wasnt for Hayden being in Gp,he is who i would cheer for.Obviuosly Bridgestone has caught and passed Michelin but i am tired of Rossi,Pedro,etc; bitching about tires.I dont recall Rossi saying the reason he won 3 strait titles on Michelin vs Bridgestone, was mainly because his tires were superior.First it was the Ducati was much faster,then Stoner won a couple of races where the Ducati couldnt stretch its legs, and then it was tires.Its time to shut up and run what you have and give credit where credit is due.Stoner is having a magical year,enjoy it and dont make excuses .



Yes, I hear you, but anyone that races knows that the correct tire grip is crucial to your performance at the race track. His 3 consecutive wins on Michelins were due in part to Michelins being a superior tire (until this year). Its true, Stoner is having a great year, but the combination of the Ducati and especially the Bridgestone dominence has given all Michelin riders a disadvantage. If you were to provide everyone with the same tire most people would agree that Vale would dominate.

With that said.......Go Nicky!

First it was the straight line speed of the Ducati, now it's the tyres!

When is Casey going to get the credit he deserves on this forum?

That's a laugh! Rossi's bike is second rate ya sure it is. It is one of the best machines on the grid just underpowered because it lacks 1000rpm on the Ducati. Don't expect that to go on too long once the pneumatic valved engine is done. Yamaha builds for Toytoa's F1 car so they know a thing or two about engines and especially about cylinder heads which is the weakness.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 24 2007, 07:59 PM) [snapback]81159[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I'm glad you agree with me, but i am not keen on the way you have suggested Rossi can do no wrong, Stoner has ridden better pretty much all season regardless of equipment.



no im not saying he can do no wrong, im just saying these elements are a big part of his performance, of course stoner is a great rider but its a almost perfect harmony the duke lets stoner ride it well lol, stoner's bike was ready to go out of the box, ducati did a awesome job with the 800cc bike but its time other manufacturers got it sorted, its like stoner didnt perform to well when his tyre was playing up but hes been lucky with his rubber, the michelin tyres ar crap maybe there are made from cake mixture i dont know lol.
would it be possible for rossi and others to change tyre manufacturers??? im not up on the tyre situation.

the yam lacks 1000rpm your having a laff arent you ?? isnt it more like 3000 rpm and 10-20 bhp


ducati 19,500 rpm

yamaha 15,800 rpm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sharm @ Jul 25 2007, 09:40 AM) [snapback]81202[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
At the risk of sounding like a bandwaggoning Stoner fanboy I'd like to ask, if Stoner was having as much (little) success so far this season as his team mate, and the Championship was being led by Rossi followed by Pedrosa, would this discussion be taking place?


Me too, I agree...and “At the risk of sounding like a bandwaggoning Stoner fanboy” the press and the experts would be flying superlatives left right and centre and they would have not given a .... about the Bridgestone,Dunlop boys...they would be saying...we have to do something to help other tyre manufacturers come up to the top level! They have been saying this for years! The FIA did do something about it, so what’s the problem! And they should be commended!!!

Can you imagine what all these people who now are making all these excuses...the Bridgestone this...the Ducati this...the Yamaha, Honda this... would be saying? If the Michelins or either Yamaha with Rossi or Honda with Pedrosa would be in Stoners shoes!!!

I tell you what they would be saying and especially when it comes to Mr. Pedrosa!...wow the whole European expertly press would have made him the sensation of 500/motoGP in the last 10 years, with comparisons to Rossi, they would be saying with his 125’s/250cc WC’s and that he is better than Rossi blah blah blah...it’s a fruitless argument folks!!!...JUST REMEMBER...no rider was awarded the WChampionship! Because “HE COULD OF OR WOULD OF DONE THAT or IF HE HAD THIS or HAD THAT!!!

And no matter what anybody says “Stoner is leading the WChampionship, he is +44 points, he is riding like a demon or I quote “he’s from another Planet”!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burky @ Jul 25 2007, 02:16 AM) [snapback]81214[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
First it was the straight line speed of the Ducati, now it's the tyres!

When is Casey going to get the credit he deserves on this forum?


I totally agree with you...

If it were just the bike then Capirossi, Barros and Davies would be at the sharp end all the time and during this past weekend in practice and racing as well...

If it were just the tyres then Melandri, Duhamel, RDP, West, CV, Hopper and RLH would have be at the sharp end all the time and during this past weekend in practice and racing as well...

During the very dominant Rossi Era of 990s, all of Vale's top contenders were on the same or better equipment (tyres, and bikes) as Rossi was on...and he still beat them....and I am including 2006 in this picture...

Casey is not much different....maybe Repsol should switch to Bridgestones or Dani get his own team on Bridgestone and then we can put the Casey Nay sayers to rest...

Everyone seems to be forgetting that at the start of the season Rossi and Stoner were very close - it was mainly the ducati's hp giving it the edge! All of a sudden a few races haven't been close and now it's the tyres. Wait till the end of the season before making judgement's on how the tyre war is going!
Personally I think the new rule has been fantastic and michelin dropped the ball and thought they'd dominate as per usual. Now they aren't dominating and they're crying over their spilt milk! Well fk em, they will be pulling out all stops to regain the lead which can only be a good thing!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>Casey is not much different....maybe Repsol should switch to Bridgestones or Dani get his own team on Bridgestone and then we can put the Casey Nay sayers to rest...

NO NO NO....MigsAngel...The answer to your statement is:...DANI, VAL and ALL THE REST ON MICHILIN “GET THERE ACT TOGETHER”!!! Simple and there is NO analysing and/or anything more TO DO/SAY?OR BE OBJECTIVE TO!!!

Bridgestone have done a great job this season. Look back to last year when during one round their qualifier didn't even last the fast lap.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Jul 24 2007, 11:38 PM) [snapback]81220[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
the yam lacks 1000rpm your having a laff arent you ?? isnt it more like 3000 rpm and 10-20 bhp
ducati 19,500 rpm

yamaha 15,800 rpm



Actually I think both the Yamaha and the Honda limit at 17000 or so. Someone posted the limits somewhere and I can't find them right now being as I'm at work and blocked from a lot of sports sites. The Ducati has hit low 19's as I have seen on screen during the race. So it's about 2000 rpm. The hp range you say sound accurate.

Do you think it has anything to do with engine configuration? The Yami is an I4. Maybe it has internal balance problems?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gsfan @ Jul 25 2007, 10:55 PM) [snapback]81290[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Actually I think both the Yamaha and the Honda limit at 17000 or so. Someone posted the limits somewhere and I can't find them right now being as I'm at work and blocked from a lot of sports sites. The Ducati has hit low 19's as I have seen on screen during the race. So it's about 2000 rpm. The hp range you say sound accurate.

Do you think it has anything to do with engine configuration? The Yami is an I4. Maybe it has internal balance problems?


No No No...It’s NOT the The Yami is on I4 and it has and/or maybe??? internal balance problems? It’s THERE RIDERS THAT YOU SHOULD BE ADDRESSING THIS TO!!! Nothing to do with the yami, Hondi, Suzui, Kwaki what other excuses can WE THINK OF???? Oh...Michi, Duni!!!???...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CSCVAW @ Jul 25 2007, 02:12 PM) [snapback]81293[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
No No No...It’s NOT the The Yami is on I4 and it has and/or maybe??? internal balance problems? It’s THERE RIDERS THAT YOU SHOULD BE ADDRESSING THIS TO!!! Nothing to do with the yami, Hondi, Suzui, Kwaki what other excuses can WE THINK OF???? Oh...Michi, Duni!!!???...



we are not looking for excuses, we are just discussing the yam so shut ur trap, youve only been on this forum for like a week and already youve been talked down for being an absolute coconut.
and yes it is the yam cos it uses spring valves suzuki ,kawasaki , ducati all use pneumatic.
so you still think that when yamaha and mich get there act together rossi wont close the gap between him and stoner?
well pmslol to that, casey is having a great season GREAT RIDING ,GOOD RUBBER , AND AN AWESOME MACHINE.
if rossi was lossing riders with a good setup then fair enough but thats not how it is at the moment so just shut up saying there making excuses.
i didnt want to but i will anyway remember crashy last season ???? he didnt get on well with that machine and look what happend to him, this season casey has come out with a good pakage and hes a deamon.
you just keep being stupid and calling riders lairs cos you will look stupid when all this gets turned around il be following you round doing your headin then saying you was wrong wrong wrong, but then again i wont cos im not a childish ..... lke you soz for this but when the bikes even then we will see whats on the cards.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Jul 25 2007, 04:16 PM) [snapback]81319[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
we are not looking for excuses, we are just discussing the yam so shut ur trap, youve only been on this forum for like a week and already youve been talked down for being an absolute coconut.
and yes it is the yam cos it uses spring valves suzuki ,kawasaki , ducati all use pneumatic.
so you still think that when yamaha and mich get there act together rossi wont close the gap between him and stoner?
well pmslol to that, casey is having a great season GREAT RIDING ,GOOD RUBBER , AND AN AWESOME MACHINE.
if rossi was lossing riders with a good setup then fair enough but thats not how it is at the moment so just shut up saying there making excuses.
i didnt want to buy i will anyway remember crashy last season ???? he didnt get on well with that machine and look what happend to him, this season casey has come out with a good pakage and hes a deamon.
you just keep being stupid and calling riders lairs cos you will look stupid when all this gets turned around il be following you round doing your headin then saying you was wrong wrong wrong, but then again i wont cos im not a childish ..... lke you soz for this but when the race is fair then we will see whats on the cards.



Overall, quite a good call, but the Duke uses Desmodromic valves.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Jul 25 2007, 04:20 PM) [snapback]81324[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Overall, quite a good call, but the Duke uses Desmodromic valves.

Pete


thanks for reply pete i know the duke uses its own desmodromic valve system i just couldnt think of the name take care

Everyone should just switch to Dunlops next year and the problem is solved!