which better Lorenzo or stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 6 2009, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stop sooking berry, im sure casey will be the man to beat again some day. Roger this roger that sook sook sook bla bla bla

7241wned_motorcycle.jpg]


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 6 2009, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Was at that very spot on the circuit on Saturday picking up fallen riders and again on Sunday when I took the Police accident investigation to the scene of what was initially thought to be a nasty one (chopper landed in the background).

The rider on the ground is the current ASBK (ASC) champion Glen Allerton and I do have to say that the pic is a top shot.

For those wondering, that is taken between Turns 1 and 2 at Oran Park (is more on entry to T2). The circuit will disappear at the end of this year to make wat for bloody lego boxes called houses.

ANy aussies may be interested to know that the last Motorcycle race will be a return of the 6Hour.



<< off topic stuff posted anyway >>





Garry
I bet Rog weren't expecting that!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 6 2009, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Any aussies may be interested to know that the last Motorcycle race will be a return of the 6Hour.

Garry

Right that's it!!! ..... now I'm sooking ....... the 6hr at Oran Park!!!


Why don't they hold it where it belongs! at Amaroo!! .... oh wait I looked for Amaroo on Google Earth and found its been replaced by houses!!



Gee I'm old

Anyone else remember/ raced at Amaroo?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 6 2009, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Was at that very spot on the circuit on Saturday picking up fallen riders and again on Sunday when I took the Police accident investigation to the scene of what was initially thought to be a nasty one (chopper landed in the background).

The rider on the ground is the current ASBK (ASC) champion Glen Allerton and I do have to say that the pic is a top shot.

For those wondering, that is taken between Turns 1 and 2 at Oran Park (is more on entry to T2). The circuit will disappear at the end of this year to make way for bloody lego boxes called houses.

Any aussies may be interested to know that the last Motorcycle race will be a return of the 6Hour.



<< off topic stuff posted anyway >>





Garry
interesting stuff gaz, shame when tracks are lost to be developed looks a nasty crash but bought a smile to my face seeing #11 there is wearing a rossi helmet glad the other bloke is ok tho.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 4 2009, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just going to play for a moment, so please do humour.

Many people point to the superior speed of the Ducati down the straight as indicating that it was the best bike but IMO this is not a true indication as MotoGP is not run in a straight line (after all, a top fuel drag car is not the best vehicle for circuit racing but is the fastest). So, was the Ducati the best handling package and I suspect all open minded people who remember that year will say that no, it was not the best handling bike, never has been and never will be in MotoGP.

So, was it the best bike?

Is there even a single answere to that?
First of all, to be fair, shouldn't we separate the basic package from the teams.
Can the most successfull producation bike racing company build chassis? The company that through the 80's where among the few producing well handling road-bikes.
Ducati have a looong heritage for building very good chassis and a current record to prove it. So, when there's no cost limit. Construct the best frame, pick the best parts and build the best chassi. What are the chanses that this company make a bike that can't handle? 1%, 5% somtning around there?
And then, what's the value of extrra power for accelleration and straight line speed?
What happens if you have two bikes doing the same lap time but one is fast in the turns and the other is fast on the stragit? As they start on the straight and need accelleration the bike being fast on the straight wins every time. In fact you need a bike that is lapping considerably faster to make up for that straight line advantage in a normal race situation. There is no way to block a bike on the straight while blocking is very effective in corners.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 7 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is there even a single answere to that?
First of all, to be fair, shouldn't we separate the basic package from the teams.
Can the most successfull producation bike racing company build chassis? The company that through the 80's where among the few producing well handling road-bikes.
Ducati have a looong heritage for building very good chassis and a current record to prove it. So, when there's no cost limit. Construct the best frame, pick the best parts and build the best chassi. What are the chanses that this company make a bike that can't handle? 1%, 5% somtning around there?
And then, what's the value of extrra power for accelleration and straight line speed?
What happens if you have two bikes doing the same lap time but one is fast in the turns and the other is fast on the stragit? As they start on the straight and need accelleration the bike being fast on the straight wins every time. In fact you need a bike that is lapping considerably faster to make up for that straight line advantage in a normal race situation. There is no way to block a bike on the straight while blocking is very effective in corners.

Don't forget the "electronics" .... thats also what made the ducati look good in 07, we all know that the electronics did all the work, here's the proof: ........ even shows Stoner crashing early in his career! ........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boof_3JRiRE...feature=related







obviously Stoner is just being steered around the track on a bike that is totally controlled by electronics!!

I told you they weren't using Gyros ( because its impossible )

07' was a big change for all teams, the Ducati were lucky to find the right package...... and by far, was the best bike on the grid. So basically it was Stoner's championship from the start.

08' was a telling year. With last year's data/telemetry, the teams were able to build there bikes up to par with the Ducati's now. I'd say Ducati still have a slight edge over Fiat Yamaha this year, but even so, look who won the championship this year.

09' seems to be Fiat Yamaha's year, maybe because their bikes has an edge over the others in the field. Whatever the case, I see one of the Yamaha's winning the championship and not Stoner.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, now that the Yamaha and Ducati are pretty even in terms of bike performance.... you're starting to see how good Stoner really is on 'equal' machinery to his rivals, and to me.... he is the 3rd rider of the grid, behind Rossi and Lorenzo. Season is still early so who knows what can happen, but for now if Stoner wants the championship this year, he'll need to kick it up a notch in terms of his own performance, and not rely soo much on new parts for the bike for the advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Jul 6 2009, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Basically what I'm trying to say is, now that the Yamaha and Ducati are pretty even in terms of bike performance.... you're starting to see how good Stoner really is on 'equal' machinery to his rivals, and to me.... he is the 3rd rider of the grid, behind Rossi and Lorenzo. Season is still early so who knows what can happen, but for now if Stoner wants the championship this year, he'll need to kick it up a notch in terms of his own performance, and not rely soo much on new parts for the bike for the advantage.

I'll chalk you up as one that thinks he went to Hollywood for more than just visting Universal Studios

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 6 2009, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'll chalk you up as one that thinks he went to Hollywood for more than just visting Universal Studios

Well... I heard Stoner was going to Hollywood to audition for the new "Cry Baby" movie coming out soon, rumor has it that the filming is going to take place in the Universal Studios set. Word has it that Johnny Depp was quite pleased for Stoner to be playing his old role.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 6 2009, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>interesting stuff gaz, shame when tracks are lost to be developed looks a nasty crash but bought a smile to my face seeing #11 there is wearing a rossi helmet glad the other bloke is ok tho.


Roger, it actually wasn't despite the look.

You would think a broken arm or similar injury but Glen raced the next race that day and was uninjured (brusiing aside)





Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 6 2009, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is there even a single answere to that?
First of all, to be fair, shouldn't we separate the basic package from the teams.
Can the most successfull producation bike racing company build chassis? The company that through the 80's where among the few producing well handling road-bikes.
Ducati have a looong heritage for building very good chassis and a current record to prove it. So, when there's no cost limit. Construct the best frame, pick the best parts and build the best chassi. What are the chanses that this company make a bike that can't handle? 1%, 5% somtning around there?
And then, what's the value of extrra power for accelleration and straight line speed?
What happens if you have two bikes doing the same lap time but one is fast in the turns and the other is fast on the stragit? As they start on the straight and need accelleration the bike being fast on the straight wins every time. In fact you need a bike that is lapping considerably faster to make up for that straight line advantage in a normal race situation. There is no way to block a bike on the straight while blocking is very effective in corners.



I like these games.

IMO it is not as clear cut as you imply as I could take you to a small circuit in Australia where the straight is extremely short but the corners very tight. On this circuit more 1000cc bikes do not see third gear and are cutting laptimes no better than motards when ridden well.

Your supposition would in most cases be considered straight forward but it would all depend on the very nature of the circuit. A circuit that requires handling to be perfect and has little situation from brute power will likely mean that the better handling bike could enter the straight sufficiently in front enough to win the race. Again, pure supposition on my part but there will be circuits where the HP wins, and circuits where the handling wins with of course the crucial point being the placement of the start/finish line as well.





Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Jul 6 2009, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well... I heard Stoner was going to Hollywood to audition for the new "Cry Baby" movie coming out soon, rumor has it that the filming is going to take place in the Universal Studios set. Word has it that Johnny Depp was quite pleased for Stoner to be playing his old role.
Really cause my hollywood pal never mentioned that to me. Although his lesbian friend said supershinya56 was going to be in the largest homosexual gangbang ever fiilmed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Jun 25 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>to hear Biaggi............... the M1 was impossible to ride

unitl VR & JB got a hold of it


Forget VR, the M1 was never to bad, just nobody to make it handle. JR has won somany Championships with Honda, that's no Coincedence! As soon as I heard Burgess coming along With Rossi I new it was gonna be a problem for the rest.

But to stay ontopic:

Stoner is the better overall rider for sure, but Lorenzo is comming and with two 250 titles he also knows how to win a Championship. But for now my answer is that Stoner will kick Lorenzo's but (as soon as he feels better and stopt throwing up in his helmet....

Gaz; 6 hour race at Oran Park? Details please....

When I was younger I used to watch the 6 hour at Amaroo for about 6 years straight (1974-1979).
Loved it! Gardner, Blake, Hales etc

Years later I met Alan Hales ( he won the race on a Suzuki gs1000) at the Mt White cafe and became good friends. We used to do group rides (6-10 bikes) down to PI for motogp and superbikes and I can tell you he never lost that competitive nature! (crazy fast) Unfortunately he died on the "old road" (old pacific highway) 1 1/2 years ago- doing what he loved.

Thats my 6 hr story...................

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jul 8 2009, 02:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Gaz; 6 hour race at Oran Park? Details please....

When I was younger I used to watch the 6 hour at Amaroo for about 6 years straight (1974-1979).
Loved it! Gardner, Blake, Hales etc

Years later I met Alan Hales ( he won the race on a Suzuki gs1000) at the Mt White cafe and became good friends. We used to do group rides (6-10 bikes) down to PI for motogp and superbikes and I can tell you he never lost that competitive nature! (crazy fast) Unfortunately he died on the "old road" (old pacific highway) 1 1/2 years ago- doing what he loved.

Thats my 6 hr story...................


PM sent Bunyip.
Remember reading of Roger's accident and it was indeed a tragedy that affected a lot of people as he was indeed a very popular man.






Garry

"Rogers " accident. Hope that is not a Freudian slip! haha.

Thanks for your reply and Pm. hope to be there and see you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jul 8 2009, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"Rogers " accident. Hope that is not a Freudian slip! haha.

Thanks for your reply and Pm. hope to be there and see you.
I watched lots of racing at both amaroo and oran park, mostly car racing though before I saw the light. Warwick farm imo was a lot better than either, and its demise was not even for real estate development but due to noise complaints by residents even though there were only 2 race meetings per year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jul 8 2009, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"Rogers " accident. Hope that is not a Freudian slip! haha.

Thanks for your reply and Pm. hope to be there and see you.
i thought the same thing, surely i haven't rattled the "stoner apologist fraternity" (SAF) that much ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 6 2009, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really cause my hollywood pal never mentioned that to me. Although his lesbian friend said supershinya56 was going to be in the largest homosexual gangbang ever fiilmed.

Hey look ROCKDOG01...... I found a clip of you on Youtube.

<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qZyLi48Fmu4</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qZyLi48Fmu4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 7 2009, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I like these games.

IMO it is not as clear cut as you imply as I could take you to a small circuit in Australia where the straight is extremely short but the corners very tight. On this circuit more 1000cc bikes do not see third gear and are cutting laptimes no better than motards when ridden well.

Your supposition would in most cases be considered straight forward but it would all depend on the very nature of the circuit. A circuit that requires handling to be perfect and has little situation from brute power will likely mean that the better handling bike could enter the straight sufficiently in front enough to win the race. Again, pure supposition on my part but there will be circuits where the HP wins, and circuits where the handling wins with of course the crucial point being the placement of the start/finish line as well.


Garry

Sure you could twist it. My point is that as long as the more powerfull bike is in front once during the race it should mathematically stay in front as the other bike loose time staying behind the power bike while the power bike loose nothing as the slower one never hold him up anywhere. Sure, make the difference huge and you easily ride around a slower bike/rider and loose very little and the race is on, or as you suggest extreme tracks that strongly favor smaller bikes, but as we are in a MotoGP forum talking about Ducati vs Yamaha I did assume a certain level in track size, cornering and power, transferring this to a race between a "bike" designed by OCC and a tuned Mito 50cc I'm sure the theories must be adjusted .