Visordown - Lorenzo linked to £5million Honda deal

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ngads @ Jul 14 2009, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not quite sure but i think there is some kind of deal that for the USGP the AMA races go before motogp instead of the 125s and 250s. Prob. to help promote AMA

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%<span style="color:#FFA500Thanks for the reply, I saw them mention that in another topic I posted, about the AMA races, I don't follow that race, so I dunno wat that is, anyway, hope they'd have the 125 and 250cc at the future Indy race!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cristal @ Jul 15 2009, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%<span style="color:#FFA500Thanks for the reply, I saw them mention that in another topic I posted, about the AMA races, I don't follow that race, so I dunno wat that is, anyway, hope they'd have the 125 and 250cc at the future Indy race!

they did last year

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jul 15 2009, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>they did last year

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%<span style="color:#9932CCThat's great!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Willski @ Jul 13 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Think this could certainly happen, but I am sure that Horhey would need to see how close to Yamaha in terms of development and performance the Honda is by the end of the season.

There is no way that 99 would even consider playing second fiddle to Pedrobot, but I also think he would chose a bike which is best suited to winning the championship. 5 large ones is a lot of money, but I think Horhey's motivation will be winning. Perhaps with a title in the bag next season and perhaps GOAT retiring, Lorenzo will get all the money he needs from Yamaha

Totally agree with that, Lorenzo and Pedro hate each other. No way would either one of them play second fiddle to the other!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 13 2009, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If this comes through Lorenzo and Pedrosa will be team mates while Dove will be the one moved to an "alternative" factory bike.
Repsol will be more than happy to sponsor two Spanish riders and Lorenzo will be given guarantee that he will receive equipment as quickly as Pedrosa or sooner.

Remember Repsol are desparate for a Spanish rider to wear the NO1 plate, I think they would be prepared to pay big bucks for that rider. Although he keeps coming back to the top of the pack, Pedro is not good enough to take that NO1 plate, but Lorenzo is!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 13 2009, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no way will this work! fish your forgetting the puig factor. i doubt very seriously that these 2 will ever ride on the same team at the same time.... ever..... never..... ever in a million trillion years!

puig has got to be running out of luck with Repsol, They must see that Lorenzo has what they need. I think no matter what puig does he and Pedrosa will be out at end of contract. Maybe they'll get moved to a satelite team.

I seem to remember all the bad blood between Jorge and Dovi.

IMO nothing is going to change on the HRC/Repsol and Fiat teams for next year. So much the same that AD & PD will still be fighting for 4th and VR & JL will still be battling for 1st.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Jul 19 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I seem to remember all the bad blood between Jorge and Dovi.

IMO nothing is going to change on the HRC/Repsol and Fiat teams for next year. So much the same that AD & PD will still be fighting for 4th and VR & JL will still be battling for 1st.
Thats what i'd bet on also

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 19 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats what i'd bet on also

"Great Minds" know it all bro!!!

http://www.motogpmatters.com/


J-Lo said "I know what I want, but I do not know what Yamaha wants.." Did Yam hire JLo to be Rossi's all time number 2? They did not expect him to be such threat to Rossi... I do not know what they are thinking either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (moto3 @ Jul 20 2009, 03:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.motogpmatters.com/


J-Lo said "I know what I want, but I do not know what Yamaha wants.." Did Yam hire JLo to be Rossi's all time number 2? They did not expect him to be such threat to Rossi... I do not know what they are thinking either.


I suspect that JL's sheer ambition will not allow him to remain as a team #2 and being realistic, as a third year rider I would expect that he should not have to settle for a team #2 if he believes that he is a genuine championship contender (which he obviously believes). Whether Yamaha expected him to be such a threat is a valid question and one that only they can in fact answer, but should JL leave (chest thump time - as I tipped earlier this year) then the pieces may well fall into place at Yamaha a little further.

I say this as during coverage last night there was comment that Furusawa wants both riders to stay which you would expect him to say during negotiation time. The commentary also stated that the rumours suggested that CEii would return to FIAT as VR's #2 should JL leave as the working relationship between VR and CEii is exceptional. It was also said that this would suit VR as CEii is a development rider of note and thus would remove pressure from VR for development, but more so that CEii is 'not a realistic title threat'' (a fair comment but interesting).

But this would then mean an immediate successor to VR is not in the Yamaha fold so in all likelihood the door opened at Tech3 would suit the likes of Simoncelli and/or Spies based on the Rookie rule and rumours. This would then suit Yamaha who would have another rookie talent to develop for approximately two years and groom to be the succesor to VR as it seems obvious that VR will be around until at least the end of season 2011.







Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 20 2009, 06:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I suspect that JL's sheer ambition will not allow him to remain as a team #2 and being realistic, as a third year rider I would expect that he should not have to settle for a team #2 if he believes that he is a genuine championship contender (which he obviously believes). Whether Yamaha expected him to be such a threat is a valid question and one that only they can in fact answer, but should JL leave (chest thump time - as I tipped earlier this year) then the pieces may well fall into place at Yamaha a little further.

I say this as during coverage last night there was comment that Furusawa wants both riders to stay which you would expect him to say during negotiation time. The commentary also stated that the rumours suggested that CEii would return to FIAT as VR's #2 should JL leave as the working relationship between VR and CEii is exceptional. It was also said that this would suit VR as CEii is a development rider of note and thus would remove pressure from VR for development, but more so that CEii is 'not a realistic title threat'' (a fair comment but interesting).

But this would then mean an immediate successor to VR is not in the Yamaha fold so in all likelihood the door opened at Tech3 would suit the likes of Simoncelli and/or Spies based on the Rookie rule and rumours. This would then suit Yamaha who would have another rookie talent to develop for approximately two years and groom to be the succesor to VR as it seems obvious that VR will be around until at least the end of season 2011.







Garry

I like that plan.

You just can't have two number 1 riders. It's been proven over time. The ego's get in the way.

So, JLo was hired to be Rossi's No2 teammate in the first place? Why didn't they keep Edwards and put him in Tech 3 instead then? Furusawa said M1 is the peak of its maturity now. Other bikes will sooner or later catch up. JLo should stay one more year to see if Rossi decides to continue and how also Honda would do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (moto3 @ Jul 20 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, JLo was hired to be Rossi's No2 teammate in the first place? Why didn't they keep Edwards and put him in Tech 3 instead then? Furusawa said M1 is the peak of its maturity now. Other bikes will sooner or later catch up. JLo should stay one more year to see if Rossi decides to continue and how also Honda would do.

i don't think it ever occurred to Yamaha that they should hire jorge, not only as vale's team mate, but also as the number 1 rider. surely, jorge must have known vale would be number 1. and i think it was what's on his mind last year. until he realized this year, through his wins and strong performance, that he has the right to claim number 1 because he is as good as vale sans the experience thing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cankles @ Jul 20 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I like that plan.

You just can't have two number 1 riders. It's been proven over time. The ego's get in the way.
The situation will be very similar at Honda allthough with one important defference:
If Lorenzo start beating Pedrosa on a regular basis he will soon become the #1 rider.
That will not happen as easily at Yamaha. He would probably have to wait a season or more before he get the inhouse engineers ears and get the development in his direction.

What I meant for No2 is that he does not challenge Rossi, mostly finishing behind him. I don't think the team order and obvious No1 & 2 exist in MotoGP like F1. For the develoment side, the team listens more to the experienced and successful rider, but it is not that issue for JLo as the bike is already good. He just gets so much more offers from honda and wants to have similar recognition from Yam?! But, Yam does not seem to want to have a rider who challenge Rossi. They are happy as long as he wins..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (moto3 @ Jul 20 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What I meant for No2 is that he does not challenge Rossi, mostly finishing behind him. I don't think the team order and obvious No1 & 2 exist in MotoGP like F1. For the develoment side, the team listens more to the experienced and successful rider, but it is not that issue for JLo as the bike is already good. He just gets so much more offers from honda and wants to have similar recognition from Yam?! But, Yam does not seem to want to have a rider who challenge Rossi. They are happy as long as he wins..

you said "Why didn't they keep Edwards and put him in Tech 3 instead then?"

my question is, would jorge have signed the contract if it wasn't for the factory team?

and do also consider that yamaha, though of course they want that rider's championship title courtesy of rossi, also wants that team and constructor titles. every outfit fielding bikes in that grid would want that. they are indeed happy that vale wins, but vale can only do so much for the two other titles, and along here comes jorge who could produce great results from rossi adding to the points and giving them the 3 titles last year.

and with what you are saying here, "but it is not that issue for JLo as the bike is already good. "
if jorge is not concerned of the development thing since you've stated that the bike has reached it peak and is very good, what then could he possibly want to have by becoming the number 1 rider? just the recognition of being one? because number 1 riders do that (excuse me and correct me, all you knowledgeable ones, the next thing am gonna say is based on what i have read and have understood), get the parts first, test it first, be the first one to do this and that in virtue of experimentation. but since, from what i've understood, you're saying that there is very little to develop in those m1, what more is jorge seeking by wanting to be number 1? bragging rights? he's as good as Vale and probably as popular as Vale (debatable), clearly he has a handful of that recognition thing.

I don't really understand the need to push for extra money. Lorenzo should go with the team he feels gives him the best shot at the title, all of them would pay him plenty. I think more time at Yamaha is ideal, he still has more to learn from Rossi, his bike should be as well developed as any and he has time on his side.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 20 2009, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't really understand the need to push for extra money. Lorenzo should go with the team he feels gives him the best shot at the title, all of them would pay him plenty. I think more time at Yamaha is ideal, he still has more to learn from Rossi, his bike should be as well developed as any and he has time on his side.

I think that it's more of a pride thing than the actual money. Rossi getting paid 5 times the amount that he is getting is something that Lorenzo is having a tough time to swallow. He want's to be on the same level and although he is going to be great I don't think that he will ever be on Rossi's level. What someone earns is just another way to describe someones worth.

Lorenzo may be going a bit overboard by asking to get paid the same amount as Rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 20 2009, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think that it's more of a pride thing than the actual money. Rossi getting paid 5 times the amount that he is getting is something that Lorenzo is having a tough time to swallow. He want's to be on the same level and although he is going to be great I don't think that he will ever be on Rossi's level. What someone earns is just another way to describe someones worth.

Lorenzo may be going a bit overboard by asking to get paid the same amount as Rossi.

Is he actually asking to be paid the same? I haven't seen that, just that he felt he was worth more than Yamaha are willing to pay. But i think he's not doing himself much good, his worth to Yamaha is smaller than it will be to other teams because they have Rossi. If he wants to be on the bike and take those benefits then i guess the lower pay comes with it, its not like he'll be poor

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 20 2009, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think that it's more of a pride thing than the actual money. Rossi getting paid 5 times the amount that he is getting is something that Lorenzo is having a tough time to swallow. He want's to be on the same level and although he is going to be great I don't think that he will ever be on Rossi's level. What someone earns is just another way to describe someones worth.

Lorenzo may be going a bit overboard by asking to get paid the same amount as Rossi.

Is he actually asking to be paid the same? I haven't seen that, just that he felt he was worth more than Yamaha are willing to pay. But i think he's not doing himself much good, his worth to Yamaha is smaller than it will be to other teams because they have Rossi. If he wants to be on the bike and take those benefits then i guess the lower pay comes with it, its not like he'll be poor

From what I read over at Kropotkin this morning, Lorenzo wants €5 million. I don't believe anyone truly knows what Valentino's contract with Yamaha is worth but the rumors I've read lead me to believe it's somewhere in the €15 to €20 million per year mark. Furthermore, the story at Kropotkin said that should Lorenzo go to Honda, the Repsol team would be split into two separate teams with two separate bosses. Puig would control Pedrosa's half and Giampiero Sacchi of Aprilia World Superbike would oversee Lorenzo's half.

My take on the matter is that Lorenzo is worth the money. Even to Yamaha. Rossi has said he wants to race for another few years, but at 30 you have to wonder what level of commitment he will have in two years time and what sort of effects aging will have on him. Lorenzo is the next most talented and popular rider on the grid, I would think that keeping him on board should be priority. Because when Rossi goes, Yamaha need someone to take over. And that was what everyone anticipated when Lorenzo signed. They have their hands on Spies but lost Simoncelli to Honda, if they want to remain up front in five years, they need to hold on to these young, talented riders. Especially at a fraction of Rossi's salary, even if that means €5 million a year.

From Lorenzo's perspective, it's really a tough decision. As has been said, the M1 is at it's peak and is hands down the best bike on the grid. So at this moment in time, I would be doing everything I could to get Yamaha to pay me if I were Jorge. However, should Honda put up the €5 million and create Lorenzo his own team within the Repsol garage that is run properly, I'd certainly give it a good look. Honda are never far off. Before Pedrosa's win in Laguna, it was their longest victory drought in GP ever, correct? And the 212 is improving. Switching to Honda over the M1 is a gamble, but the odds aren't as long as many would think.

Should the series go back to 1000cc machinery in the next few seasons as rumored, I'd sure like to be riding for the team that Valentino has been aiding in development. He seems to be pretty good at that.